From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 1 04:08:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:08:40 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] unsubscribe Message-ID: <39864D48.C354F2C8@attglobal.net> From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 1 04:10:07 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:10:07 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] (no subject) Message-ID: <39864D9F.5E910BA2@attglobal.net> unsubscribe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 1 19:25:41 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Aaron Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:25:41 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] website Message-ID: <000a01bffbee$679576e0$85adfea9@isaiah> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFBF6.A9D1F8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I'm just finishing of a web site I have built for the church I = attended and would like to know if it would be OK to upload a copy of = the windows version of sword to this site....? Aaron ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFBF6.A9D1F8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi I'm just finishing of a web site I have built for = the=20 church I attended and would like to know if it would be OK to upload a = copy of=20 the windows version of sword to this site....?
Aaron
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFBF6.A9D1F8A0-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 1 22:58:34 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 15:58:34 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] website References: <000a01bffbee$679576e0$85adfea9@isaiah> Message-ID: <3987561A.6125184E@crosswire.org> Of course. Please do. Please feel free to build a custom install, also, if you wish. The current installer lends itself to easily including a few modules along with the software install, if you think this might be more useful than a 'software-only' install. -Troy. > Aaron Smith wrote: > > Hi I'm just finishing of a web site I have built for the church I > attended and would like to know if it would be OK to upload a copy of > the windows version of sword to this site....? > Aaron From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 3 17:25:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Matthias Ansorg) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:25:48 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] General Book Support Message-ID: <00080320040302.00198@matthias> Hi all, I realized that it's impossible to put all (my) biblical studies into commentaries, because some deal with topics or questions. IMHO, there's good reason to implement general book support for such topical texts into SWORD (without creating bloatware by implementing ordinary HTML browsing capabilities): -- in religious topical works there are many references to the bible. The easier it is to look them up, the more will the reader do that and the deeper will his studies be. The easiest way would be to click on a link (and optionally choosing context width and version from a popup menu). This could be implemented in SWORD. -- cross-referencing to other topical documents would be helpful -- on the BibleTime mailing list they discussed a feature for writing sermons. If SWORD provided general book support and possibilities to write these books, all frontends would have access to sermons written in BibleTime and no proprietary standard would be defined. -- when doing biblical studies on a subject, an editor for SWORD's general book support would be helpful (copying bible verses or verse references, making references with drag&drop etc.). -- if even text on biblical topics could be SWORD modules, it is possible to create a general library of Christian literature for SWORD, integrating _all_ availabe Christian literature. As it's impossible to transfer the current SWORD indexed module format to general book format, I'd suggest to use normal ThML documents for the lattter. There are great possibilities for interchange (with CCEL etc.), web publication (presenting ThML as HTML is quite easy) and digital books / libraries (as this is the purpose ThML was designed for). I know that it's not that polite to make request a feature without implementing it. So take it as suggestion 8^) In Christ, -- Matthias <>< From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 3 19:19:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Matthias Ansorg) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:19:03 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <00080321320205.00198@matthias> Use BibleTime to show up Malachi 3:1, then use the button »next chapter«. Use BibleTime to show up Malachi 4:1, then use the button »previous chapter«. Use BibleTime and type in Matthew 0:1 Use BibleTime and type in the verse Malachi 4:1. In all these cases BibleTime shows up Revelation 4:1 in the verse box, but Malachi 4 as the text. Just my $0.02 to optimize SWORD. May God bless your work! --Matthias <>< From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 3 16:07:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Matthias Ansorg) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:07:31 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Doctrinal Statement In-Reply-To: <20000729.102346.-466617.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> References: <20000729.102346.-466617.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> Message-ID: <00080318582100.00198@matthias> Hi all, I know that my comment on this issue is quite late, but I had no internet access for the last weeks. Chris Little wrote: >>> I do think we should make it clear, however, to our users what >>> material is Christian and what is not through labelling. Geoffrey Hastings wrote: >> Maybe the place to put this kind of information would be in the >> help contents under the modules section. A section on module >> background information. Then if the module discription warranted a >> paragraph you could have a whole paragraph. You could then include >> information about the author/authors and their backgrounds, beliefs >> and other works they may have done. >> As far as downloading the modules. Other sections could be added >> to the Crosswire site and clearly labled as to what they are for >> those who >wished to download them. ie. Non-Christian Topics and >> Reference Works. Darwin Gregory wrote: > I would like to suggest even expanding this concept. Let's take it > a step further. I think it would be helpful for novices to have a > method for determining which commentaries come from which angles etc. > This could be a lengthy process to define the categories, but could > be extremely useful in the long run. > The categorization would be partly based on the opinion of the > distributor, but could be helpful. I like this concept that Chris, Darwin and Geoffrey developed, too. As for me, it would have be extremely helpful to know the doctrinal direction of a commentary before downloading and using it for preparations for bible lessons etc. (to know if it's biblical coorrect what I download). Let's go into the technical details. The SWORD design of the modules includes in each module (for bibles and commentaries) the sections »module intro«, »testament intro« for OT and NT and »chapter intro« for each chapter, but all these are unused up to now. So I would rather suggest to put the background information (doctrinal direction, type of document, author, author's biography, ...) into the module itself (»module intro«) instead of the crosswire homepage. Advantages: -- frontend access to the module background information -- the user doesn't have to manage his modules and the background information separately, only the modules. You don't need to add a extra file to the module distribution and solve the issue within the current SWORD design. -- a cgi script could be used to extract the module background information from a module and display it on the crosswire homepage. That way, the user can evaluate a module before downloading (as Geoffrey suggested) and the effort for upating a module's background information is small (update the module, you don't need to update the corresponding web page, too). With love in Christ Jesus, -- Matthias From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 5 02:57:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (David A. Keller) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:57:40 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] PDA front-ends Message-ID: <398B82A4.3FC55168@perigee.net> Has anyone developed an architecture or software for handhelds to use the Sword libraries? I am interested in working on such a project. I have some experience in developing software on the EPOC and PalmOS platforms. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 5 17:14:38 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:14:38 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? Message-ID: <00080513144101.00831@one.net> Hello, I noticed that in the recent discussions, adding the books of the apocrypha was mentioned. i see that the GBF spec allows for them. How would someone go about adding these for use in Bibletime? Is there a file to create the necessary .vss file, like gbfidx for the nt and ot files (or is there a secret option for gbfidx, like "gbfidx apoc apoc")? Also, isn't the Book of Enoch considered to be part of the Apocrypha (especially since it's quoted in Jude)? Why isn't it listed in the GBF spec? I'd especially like to get that book in a readable form for Bibletime, so I can search for passages, etc. Can anyone help me out? May Yahweh bless you! -- At your service, J. Solomon Kostelnik [Philippians 2:5-12] From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 5 18:12:18 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:12:18 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: <00080513144101.00831@one.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000805120609.00b207d0@ebible.org> At 01:14 PM 8/5/00 -0400, roz@one.net wrote: >... >Also, isn't the Book of Enoch considered to be part of the Apocrypha >(especially since it's quoted in Jude)? No. > Why isn't it listed in the GBF spec? Only the Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical Books recognized by any of the Roman Catholic, Greek, and Slavonic Bibles are listed in the GBF specification. If you want to include any other book, it should be done as a generic book, not a Bible or Apocrypha book. _______ Michael Paul Johnson mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 5 23:54:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:54:31 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Open book unlocking system (was Re: Module verification, was Re: [sword-devel] DoctrinalStatement) In-Reply-To: <398398C6.6AB81D25@bigfoot.com> References: <20000727.164437.-316621.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> <4.2.0.58.20000727224340.00a35a00@mail.dancris.com> <4.2.0.58.20000728222758.00a3ae00@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000805164627.00a3f260@mail.dancris.com> Sorry this reply has taken so long. It looks like this is the kind of thing that X.509 is for. I think it would be a great way to start working out security. I didn't see anyone jumping on the idea to get it done though. Perhaps if a rough draft of a Sword implementation was created others may take it up. Jerry At 12:53 PM 7/30/2000 +1000, Paul Gear wrote: >Glad you asked, Jerry. :-) I've been thinking about this issue for >some time. I started to prepare a long and involved message about how i >envisaged it working, but i realised that it would probably prove >incomprehensible to just about everyone but me. So let me give a brief >overview, and we can go into more detail later. > > >It seems to me that there are several problems we could solve with one >piece of technology: > 1. Encrypted modules. > 2. Verification of modules. > 3. Point-of-sale type unlocking with which commercial publishers >would be happy. >The technology i'm thinking of here is OpenSSL, the free software >library for implementing X.509 PKI functionality. > > >Here is an overview of the components of my proposed solution: > >1. Modules are encrypted using a single key, by a symmetric cipher (as >they are now), preferably with a fairly small key length, for >performance reasons. (What length do we use at the moment?) > >2. Modules are signed with the distributor's digital signature. This >allows module verification with cryptographic checksums. A root >certificate authority key would need to be embedded in the software >distributions (like Netscape and IE do). More detailed verification >parameters (as suggested above by Jerry) could be added to the >certificate to verify the text if the checksum verification fails. > >3. Unlocking a book involves creating an SSL connection to an unlock >server, generating a one-time asymmetric key at the client, and the >server encrypting the module's symmetric key to that asymmetric key. >The application stores this asymmetrically encrypted version of the >module key. > >4. Reading a locked book involves decrypting the module key and using >it to decrypt the book. > > >What this would require of application software: > >1. Embedded keys for the root certificate authorities. We could use >existing ones on the Internet, or create our own, which would be cheaper >(i.e. free :-). > >2. Linking with OpenSSL to do module checksumming and decryption. > >3. Code to generate, save, and restore unlock keys. > >4. User interface hooks for: viewing certificates, verifying modules, >and unlocking books. > >5. Client-server code for talking to the server during module >unlocking. There would need to be a way of allowing manual web or phone >unlocks as well. > > >There are some problems with this proposal, one being that there is no >obscurity, so anybody with the know-how would be able to write a program >to decrypt the modules using OpenSSL. I have a few ideas for overcoming >this, but it needs to be something which does not compromise our >commitment to GPL-ed code. > >The other problem is who is going to do it? This would be a rather >large undertaking. I would love to do it, but i don't have the time. I >would jump at the chance to quit my job to work on this sort of stuff, >but who would pay for it? Know anyone who'd like to invest a bit of >venture capital? 8^) > > >I've copied this to Bob@Logos (although hopefully your mail filters >would have flagged this message anyway, Bob :-) and Bible-Linux, hoping >that others might be interested in working on a standard that we could >all use. Are there others who we could get together with on this? >Maybe the guys at Theophilos? > >I know Logos already has a system to do all of this, Bob, but it is a >possible solution for working together with us (as we discussed some >time ago on the Bible-Linux list), and it would allow you to upgrade to >a system using real encryption. (Of course, you could do that anyway, >but it would be nice if we could do something together. ;-) > > >Well, what think ye? > > >Paul >--------- >"He must become greater; i must become less." - John 3:30 >http://www.bigfoot.com/~paulgear From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 05:46:10 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 22:46:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: <00080513144101.00831@one.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 roz@one.net wrote: > i see that the GBF spec allows for them. How would someone go about adding > these for use in Bibletime? Is there a file to create the necessary .vss file, > like gbfidx for the nt and ot files (or is there a secret option for gbfidx, > like "gbfidx apoc apoc")? SWORD doesn't really comply fully with the GBF spec, just the markup aspects of it. Adding Apocrypha support should be fairly trivial, it's just that none of SWORD's contributors seem to have made it a priority yet--though we certainly seem to get a lot of requests. > Also, isn't the Book of Enoch considered to be part of the Apocrypha > (especially since it's quoted in Jude)? Why isn't it listed in the GBF spec? > I'd especially like to get that book in a readable form for Bibletime, so I can > search for passages, etc. As MPJ mentioned, the Apocrypha generally only includes the Catholic Deuterocanonical books. Ethiopic Enoch is usually classified among the Pseudepigrapha. Whether we would handle such works like we do Bibles or as General Books is kind of a toss up. Perhaps, ideally we could make a General Book class where modules carried their own indexing formats with them. For example, some books might just support lookups by chapter--like your average novel. A collection of Pseudepigrapha might support lookups in the book "chapter:verse format" like biblical lookups. And (something I'd be quite interested in seeing) the works of Josephus could be queried by their standard "work book.chapter.verse" (e.g. Antiquities 1.2.3) format. --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 10:35:55 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Don A. Elbourne Jr.) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 05:35:55 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401bfff92$19d598c0$a7830e18@mcity1.la.home.com> > Whether we would handle such works like we do Bibles or as General Books > is kind of a toss up. Perhaps, ideally we could make a General Book > class where modules carried their own indexing formats with them. For > example, some books might just support lookups by chapter--like your > average novel. A collection of Pseudepigrapha might support lookups in > the book "chapter:verse format" like biblical lookups. And (something I'd > be quite interested in seeing) the works of Josephus could be queried by > their standard "work book.chapter.verse" (e.g. Antiquities 1.2.3) format. > > > --Chris Little > I think this is a great idea. I've been lurking on this list a while and there seems to be some opposition to open the Sword Project up to general works and I still have not put my finger on why this is. I for one would love to have the stuff from CCEL and other places available in a tightly integrated searchable interface. Since I'm not a programmer I probably ought to keep my mouth shut. :-) But I would be capable and willing to mark up texts in ThML for use in the Sword Project. Don A. Elbourne Jr. http://elbourne.simplenet.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 20:43:42 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 16:43:42 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <01BFFFC5.79F060E0@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFC5.79F060E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try typing in "Phil" in Bibletime... it brings up Hebrews! :) If you type "Phili" then it goes to Philippians. Solomon ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFC5.79F060E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA2AEAAAEAAAARAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHN3b3JkLWRldmVsQGNy b3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAU01UUABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAaAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwAAAAMAFQwBAAAA AwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABwAAAAnc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZycAAgELMAEAAAAf AAAAU01UUDpTV09SRC1ERVZFTEBDUk9TU1dJUkUuT1JHAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAwBxOgAA AAAeAPZfAQAAABoAAABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAgH3XwEAAABRAAAAAAAA AIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwBTTVRQAHN3b3Jk LWRldmVsQGNyb3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAAAAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAKQ agEEgAEAQAAAAFJFOiBbc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxdIGJ1ZyBpbiBTV09SRCdzIGJpYmxlIHN0cnVjdHVy ZSByZXByZXNlbnRhdGlvbgD1FgEFgAMADgAAANAHCAAGABAAKwAnAAAARwEBIIADAA4AAADQBwgA BgAQACoAJwAAAEYBAQmAAQAhAAAAMkJDMTVEOTNCMzZCRDQxMUIxMkMwMEMwRjAxMDc3QkYAHAcB A5AGAEQEAAAiAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAA AAAAQAA5AACHUgDn/78BHgBwAAEAAABAAAAAUkU6IFtzd29yZC1kZXZlbF0gYnVnIGluIFNXT1JE J3MgYmlibGUgc3RydWN0dXJlIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG//+cASZNdwSxr sxHUsSwAwPAQd78AAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAMAAAAcm96QG9uZS5uZXQA AwAGEDE9pMEDAAcQXQAAAB4ACBABAAAAXgAAAFRSWVRZUElOR0lOIlBISUwiSU5CSUJMRVRJTUVJ VEJSSU5HU1VQSEVCUkVXUzopSUZZT1VUWVBFIlBISUxJIlRIRU5JVEdPRVNUT1BISUxJUFBJQU5T U09MT01PTgAAAAIBCRABAAAA/wAAAPsAAABYAQAATFpGdaDz5W4/AAoBAwH3AqQD4wIAY2jBCsBz ZXQwIAcTAoPHAFAC8g9JVGFoA3ECg0IyDtdwcnEyD+Z9EwqACMggOwlvMjU1SwKACoF2CJB3awuA ZNo0DGBjAFALA2MAQQtgwG5nMTAzMwumEZBAcnkgdHlwC4BnQiALgCAiUGgDECK5GVJCaQJgD7AH cS4awDsZUAVAYgUQF8AEIHVwGCBIZRswB9BzISAAOikgIElmIHkrCGAY4mUZhGkZ4HRoEwnwGvJn bweRdG8g7R1zcBkQAHEuCqIKhAqBxxdgAtEQkXMxNgYACPFfBGALkRJQH7MTsQAicAADABAQAAAA AAMAERAAAAAAHgBCEAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMEBxJNzm/78BQAAIMEBxJNzm/78B CwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQ hQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAADzFQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAFAAAAOC4wNAAAAAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAA AAsAL4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA EYUAAAAAAAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEA AAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAA AFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AABmyQ== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFC5.79F060E0-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 21:05:22 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:05:22 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? Message-ID: <01BFFFC8.81577DC0@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFC8.8160A580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If SWORD supports the markup aspect, then all we'd need is a program to = create the necessary verse-lookup? (.vss) file for the Apocrypha. Does = such an animal exist? :) Since it doesn't fully comply with GBF, that would explain why I can't = get a valid .vss to build with the Hebrew Names Version, which is = written in GBF. It dies out around Romans 15, even though it looks to = be formatted correctly (?). Hopefully someone will add support for "General" books! :) Solomon http://w3.one.net/~roz/ Silver '95 Camaro Z28 M6 "As though we could kill Time without injuring Eternity..." -Thoreau -----Original Message----- From: chrislit@www.crosswire.org [SMTP:chrislit@www.crosswire.org] Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 2:00 AM To: SWORD Development List Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 roz@one.net wrote: > i see that the GBF spec allows for them. How would someone go about = adding > these for use in Bibletime? Is there a file to create the necessary = .vss file, > like gbfidx for the nt and ot files (or is there a secret option for = gbfidx, > like "gbfidx apoc apoc")? SWORD doesn't really comply fully with the GBF spec, just the markup aspects of it. Adding Apocrypha support should be fairly trivial, it's just that none of SWORD's contributors seem to have made it a priority yet--though we certainly seem to get a lot of requests. =20 > Also, isn't the Book of Enoch considered to be part of the Apocrypha > (especially since it's quoted in Jude)? Why isn't it listed in the = GBF spec?=20 > I'd especially like to get that book in a readable form for Bibletime, = so I can > search for passages, etc. As MPJ mentioned, the Apocrypha generally only includes the Catholic Deuterocanonical books. Ethiopic Enoch is usually classified among the Pseudepigrapha. Whether we would handle such works like we do Bibles or as General Books is kind of a toss up. Perhaps, ideally we could make a General Book class where modules carried their own indexing formats with them. For example, some books might just support lookups by chapter--like your average novel. A collection of Pseudepigrapha might support lookups in the book "chapter:verse format" like biblical lookups. And (something = I'd be quite interested in seeing) the works of Josephus could be queried by their standard "work book.chapter.verse" (e.g. Antiquities 1.2.3) = format. --Chris Little ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFC8.8160A580 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhUVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA2AEAAAEAAAARAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHN3b3JkLWRldmVsQGNy b3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAU01UUABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAaAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwAAAAMAFQwBAAAA AwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABwAAAAnc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZycAAgELMAEAAAAf AAAAU01UUDpTV09SRC1ERVZFTEBDUk9TU1dJUkUuT1JHAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAwBxOgAA AAAeAPZfAQAAABoAAABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAgH3XwEAAABRAAAAAAAA AIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwBTTVRQAHN3b3Jk 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=_NextPart_000_01BFFFC8.8160A580-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 21:07:52 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:07:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation In-Reply-To: <01BFFFC5.79F060E0@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: It's not a bug, it's a feature! No, I'm serious. :) "Phil" is interpreted as Philemon by SWORD. If you want Philippians, try using "Php" or "Phili" (or anything else longer than "Phil"). The reason it's giving you Hebrews is that you're asking for a verse beyond the chapter/vereses of Philemon, so it's going into the next book. (Also a feature, not a bug, that can be helpful at times.) -Chris Little On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: > Try typing in "Phil" in Bibletime... it brings up Hebrews! :) If you type "Phili" then it goes to Philippians. > > Solomon From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 21:26:29 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:26:29 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFCB.754BA940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable haha, a feature. :) Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, = not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is = unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come = on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) Solomon ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFCB.754BA940 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih4VAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA2AEAAAEAAAARAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHN3b3JkLWRldmVsQGNy b3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAU01UUABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAaAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwAAAAMAFQwBAAAA AwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABwAAAAnc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZycAAgELMAEAAAAf AAAAU01UUDpTV09SRC1ERVZFTEBDUk9TU1dJUkUuT1JHAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAwBxOgAA AAAeAPZfAQAAABoAAABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAgH3XwEAAABRAAAAAAAA AIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwBTTVRQAHN3b3Jk LWRldmVsQGNyb3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAAAAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAKQ agEEgAEAQAAAAFJFOiBbc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxdIGJ1ZyBpbiBTV09SRCdzIGJpYmxlIHN0cnVjdHVy ZSByZXByZXNlbnRhdGlvbgD1FgEFgAMADgAAANAHCAAGABEAGgAcAAAALAEBIIADAA4AAADQBwgA BgARABgAMgAAAEABAQmAAQAhAAAAMzZDMTVEOTNCMzZCRDQxMUIxMkMwMEMwRjAxMDc3QkYAEQcB A5AGAOQEAAAiAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAA AAAAQAA5AEAupvvs/78BHgBwAAEAAABAAAAAUkU6IFtzd29yZC1kZXZlbF0gYnVnIGluIFNXT1JE J3MgYmlibGUgc3RydWN0dXJlIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG//+z7ppNdwTdr sxHUsSwAwPAQd78AAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAMAAAAcm96QG9uZS5uZXQA AwAGEMfjmcEDAAcQ7QAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhBSEEsQUZFQVRVUkU6KVdFTEwsVEhBVFNPRERU SEVHRU5FUkFMQUNDRVBURURBQkJSRVZJQVRJT05PRlBISUxFTU9OSVNQSE0sTk9UUEhJTFdIT0NI QU5HRURJVD86KUFORFcAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACXAQAAkwEAAAACAABMWkZ17c/UtT8ACgEDAfcCpAPj AgBjaMEKwHNldDAgBxMCg8cAUALyD0lUYWgDcQKAJn0KgAjIIDsJbzI1ljUCgAqBdgiQd2sLgLRk NAxgYwBQCwNjAEGBC2BuZzEwMzMLpgYgD3APcCwgYSBmCGVhdAhwZS4gOg4pCqIKhAqAV2VsbGUX YHQPcHQnBCAEcGTDGBARkGhlIGcJ8ASQ4wdAF3BjY2UFMAmAF3DcYmIJcBSgF8BpAiAZ0NBmIFBo AxBlBGADoMsEAByBbRdgbm8FQBySdRoRVxHAIA9hFjAbYWksdD8YIRogQRUAIHfsaHkfwAhgbB7y GWELgEJrGWMgMToxHRJ1/m4bBAGgHMAXkAWxHJYfMMQgSQVARE9FBfAPcL52GmACIBpgD2EbQXIX YOkFEGdoHyE7H2EIUAeAWSRBISEjYSCVeQhgJ9EJcCBzdAlwdA9gC4AWZxlhGmAiF6UiIGJPIHEX gAGQG3B0bx5wZh8KwBgeFcEC0RCRczE2XwYACPEc4RhUEiEALPAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAB4A QhABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCAwdHA7P+/AUAACDCAwdHA7P+/AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAA8xUAAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAAB AAAABQAAADguMDQAAAAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAy gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAA AQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMA DTT9NwAA0fo= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFCB.754BA940-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 03:17:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:17:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation In-Reply-To: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: Phm works also to call up Philemon. The reason for which Phil calls up Philemon rather than Philippians is that Philemon simply comes first alphabetically. Phm may be the abbreviation you're accustomed to, but there are no standard accepted abbreviations that the whole of Christendom recogonize, so we have to try to accomodate as many of the many standards (every Bible and every Church seems to have its own unique set) as we can. SWORD (and I assume BibleTime) should accept "Phm 1:1" just fine and retrieve Philemon 1:1. If you don't give a chapter number, and just query "Phm 12" expecting verse 12, you'll actually get Hebrews 11:1 because the library just counts to the 12th chapter past Philemon's start. --Chris Little On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: > haha, a feature. :) > > Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) > > Solomon From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 03:41:41 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:41:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: <01BFFFC8.81577DC0@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: > If SWORD supports the markup aspect, then all we'd need is a program to create the necessary verse-lookup? (.vss) file for the Apocrypha. Does such an animal exist? :) The problem is that SWORD doesn't have a clue about anything outside the standard 66 book canon. Most of the grunt work in adding Apocrypha support is probably in the canon.h file where the book/chapter index arrays are held for each testament and the canon list/book orderings are held. That much I have completed from a while back, but there's still a bit more to do and I haven't had time to figure out what. If anyone wants my modified canon.h file to complete adding apocrypha support, please mail me. A .vss generating indexer for Apocrypha doesn't really exist. Once support is included in the library, the existing indexers coudl be modified to recognize Apocrypha fairly easily I suspect. Apocyrpha support raises another question of how we should package such portions of modules. The KJV Apocrypha,for example, should probably go in the same directory as our current KJV module, on the client's computer. However, I doubt the majority of our users who download the KJV module would want to be given the Apocrypha as part of their download (whether for bandwidth/filesize reasons or their concerns with orthodoxy). So we would need to provide a manner for parts of modules (e.g. the KJV Apocrypha) to not be downloaded. Or we would need a method for installing supplements to modules to the same directory as the primary files. And I'm not sure if this may conflict with our current Installers or the servlet on Crosswire. --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 04:54:12 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Pergamum) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 23:54:12 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation References: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: <000e01c0002b$88c1a640$e1c4f5d1@pergamumntytb> I have to disagree... correct me if I'm wrong but the chapter/verse feature is standard and universal in SWORD by default. So it would take extra coding to actually remove 1:1 from Philemon. My question is: What does that issue have to do with Salvation? Why strain at a gnat like that? So Philemon says "1:1". I don't think it should be made a point of contention. It's called simplifying the program. If Philemon works just fine saying 1:1, then live with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour their hearts into this work. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Solomon Kostelnik To: Sent: Sunday, 06 August, 2000 16:26 Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation haha, a feature. :) Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) Solomon ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 05:23:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 23:23:00 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation In-Reply-To: <000e01c0002b$88c1a640$e1c4f5d1@pergamumntytb> References: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000806230811.00b4aec0@ebible.org> At 11:54 PM 8/6/00 -0500, Pergamum wrote: >... >with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to >continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not >attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your >comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour >their hearts into this work. Whoa, there! Please don't be so touchy. I saw no mocking. I saw an honest effort to inform the developers of a bug. Call it a feature, if you like, but it is still a BUG. You decide if it is worth fixing, or if you would rather just document it, dress it up in a tuxedo, and call it a feature. Face it, insects just don't look good in tuxedos.... It isn't that hard to build in special handling for one-chapter books of the Bible. I did it in my GBF-to-PDF process. Check out the typeset version of the New Testament at http://eBible.org/bible/webnt.pdf, and you will see that the running headers and chapter:verse numbering shift to verse numbering only for the one-chapter books. In a user interface, if you make someone think your feature is a bug, that person is probably right. Just how hard is it to put in something like: if ((num_chapters(book) == 1) && (chapter > 1) && (verse == 0)) { verse = chapter; chapter = 1; } ????? IF you want your software to be good, LISTEN to your users, and don't berate them for reporting bugs. Swallow your pride and fix the bugs. _______ Michael Paul Johnson mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 06:24:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Pergamum) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 01:24:56 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation References: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20000806230811.00b4aec0@ebible.org> Message-ID: <002b01c00038$3f5668d0$e1c4f5d1@pergamumntytb> I understand what your saying. Your comments came through actually clear. Solomon's on the other hand were worded a bit like mockery. In defense of the authors here; I am not a programmer. They do listen to the users. I was simply trying to address what I misread as an insult directed towards the programmers. I do apologize if I jumped at conclusions. I am somewhat apt to defensiveness when it comes to people's attempts to spread the Word in whatever way they can. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Paul Johnson To: Sent: Monday, 07 August, 2000 00:23 Subject: Re: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation > At 11:54 PM 8/6/00 -0500, Pergamum wrote: > >... > >with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to > >continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not > >attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your > >comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour > >their hearts into this work. > > Whoa, there! Please don't be so touchy. I saw no mocking. I saw an honest effort to inform the developers of a bug. Call it a feature, if you like, but it is still a BUG. You decide if it is worth fixing, or if you would rather just document it, dress it up in a tuxedo, and call it a feature. Face it, insects just don't look good in tuxedos.... > > It isn't that hard to build in special handling for one-chapter books of the Bible. I did it in my GBF-to-PDF process. Check out the typeset version of the New Testament at http://eBible.org/bible/webnt.pdf, and you will see that the running headers and chapter:verse numbering shift to verse numbering only for the one-chapter books. In a user interface, if you make someone think your feature is a bug, that person is probably right. Just how hard is it to put in something like: > if ((num_chapters(book) == 1) && (chapter > 1) && (verse == 0)) > { > verse = chapter; > chapter = 1; > } > ????? > > IF you want your software to be good, LISTEN to your users, and don't berate them for reporting bugs. Swallow your pride and fix the bugs. > > _______ > > Michael Paul Johnson > mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj > > _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 10:21:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:21:03 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation References: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20000806230811.00b4aec0@ebible.org> Message-ID: <006f01c00059$3109f780$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > At 11:54 PM 8/6/00 -0500, Pergamum wrote: > >... > >with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to > >continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not > >attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your > >comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour > >their hearts into this work. > > Whoa, there! Please don't be so touchy. I saw no mocking. I saw an honest effort to inform the developers of a bug. ... > In a user interface, if you make someone think your feature is a bug, that person is probably right. Good call, Mike. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 15:17:08 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:17:08 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <01C00061.0A2812C0@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01C00061.0A2812C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pergamum and others, I understand that reading an email message can make interpretation = difficult, since there's no tone, etc. That's why I put smilely faces, = to hopefully point out when I am laughing or smiling in real life as I = write it. Just to clarify, the others were right. My post wasn't intended to be = mocking at all. I just wondered why if a person entered 1:1 for = Philemon that it would consider it incorrect. Isn't this the mailing = list for development of Sword? Since 1:1 exists in Philemon, I wondered = why Sword thought it didn't and sent me to Hebrews instead. I think my question was valid, and not at all mocking. Apparently, = others believe that it's a bug too, so it's not just me. I don't know = why you brought salvation into this thread (?), as I was speaking of a = software glitch, and not about anyone's faith. So, back to the subject, can anyone tell me how to pull up a specific = verse in Philemon, or Jude, now that I think about it? Should I do "Phm = 4" or "Jude 4" or will it think I'm asking for chapter 4? Or maybe = there's just no current way to go directly to a verse in a single = chapter book? To the developers, thanks in advance for considering my request! In the Love of Yahweh, Solomon -----Original Message----- From: Pergamum [SMTP:pergamum@netzero.net] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:09 AM To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation I have to disagree... correct me if I'm wrong but the chapter/verse = feature is standard and universal in SWORD by default. So it would take extra = coding to actually remove 1:1 from Philemon. My question is: What does that = issue have to do with Salvation? Why strain at a gnat like that? So Philemon = says "1:1". I don't think it should be made a point of contention. It's = called simplifying the program. If Philemon works just fine saying 1:1, then = live with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is = to continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that = pour their hearts into this work. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Solomon Kostelnik To: Sent: Sunday, 06 August, 2000 16:26 Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation haha, a feature. :) Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, = not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is = unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) Solomon ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------ =_NextPart_000_01C00061.0A2812C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig4PAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA2AEAAAEAAAARAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHN3b3JkLWRldmVsQGNy b3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAU01UUABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAaAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwAAAAMAFQwBAAAA AwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABwAAAAnc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZycAAgELMAEAAAAf AAAAU01UUDpTV09SRC1ERVZFTEBDUk9TU1dJUkUuT1JHAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAwBxOgAA AAAeAPZfAQAAABoAAABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAgH3XwEAAABRAAAAAAAA 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Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:20:59 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? Message-ID: <01C00061.93B1BAA0@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01C00061.93B1BAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, Thanks for the explanation. That's pretty much what I remembered = hearing the last time this was brought up. I wasn't sure if anyone had = started development to support outside books yet or not. When I began to use a program as nice as Bibletime, and saw how easy it = is to add new texts, etc., via SWORD (write the GBF and build the .vss), = I assumed that adding another book would be as simple. I understand = that the code is not there yet, though. If I could program, I would = help. :) Thanks again for the info. 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My post wasn't intended to be > mocking at all. I just wondered why if a person entered 1:1 for Philemon > that it would consider it incorrect. Isn't this the mailing list for > development of Sword? Since 1:1 exists in Philemon, I wondered why Sword > thought it didn't and sent me to Hebrews instead. > > I think my question was valid, and not at all mocking. Apparently, others > believe that it's a bug too, so it's not just me. I don't know why you > brought salvation into this thread (?), as I was speaking of a software > glitch, and not about anyone's faith. > > So, back to the subject, can anyone tell me how to pull up a specific > verse in Philemon, or Jude, now that I think about it? Should I do "Phm > 4" or "Jude 4" or will it think I'm asking for chapter 4? Or maybe > there's just no current way to go directly to a verse in a single chapter > book? > > To the developers, thanks in advance for considering my request! > > In the Love of Yahweh, > Solomon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pergamum [SMTP:pergamum@netzero.net] > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:09 AM > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure > representation > > I have to disagree... correct me if I'm wrong but the chapter/verse > feature > is standard and universal in SWORD by default. So it would take > extra coding > to actually remove 1:1 from Philemon. My question is: What does that > issue > have to do with Salvation? Why strain at a gnat like that? So > Philemon says > "1:1". I don't think it should be made a point of contention. It's > called > simplifying the program. If Philemon works just fine saying 1:1, > then live > with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important > thing is to > continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm > not > attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however > your > comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those > that pour > their hearts into this work. > > In Christ Jesus, > Pergamum > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J. Solomon Kostelnik > To: > Sent: Sunday, 06 August, 2000 16:26 > Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure > representation > > > haha, a feature. :) > > Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is > Phm, not > Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is > unacceptable > for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I > think > you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) > > Solomon > > > ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ > Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 > ___________________________________________________________ > > From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 19:16:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 13:16:01 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] Rhinocerous Hide and Net Manners Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000807131520.00b59770@ebible.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Blessed are you who don't take offense easily at what others post, for you shall not be continually irritated. Blessed are you who only write loving and kind words, for you shall be spared many flame wars. Blessed are you who take the time to send private notes of appreciation and encouragement to those who post good things, for you show great love for your brothers and sisters. Blessed are you who take the time to read posts carefully and search for the good in them, for you shall find much good. Blessed are you who are peacemakers, for you shall inherit the earth. Blessed are you who give all posters the benefit of the doubt, for you shall find that you are often right. Blessed are you who are considerate of other people's feelings when you post, for you shall avoid causing pain to your brothers and sisters. Blessed are you who study the Holy Scriptures to apply them in your life, and not to attack others with in the manner of the Pharisees and Saducees, for you shall renew your mind and be pleasing to God. Blessed are you who avoid attacking any person who was made in God's image, even if they are obviously in sin, for you too, are a sinner saved only by the grace of God. Blessed are you who hate sin and love the sinner, for that is what God does. Blessed are you who hold to God's Truth in love, and are not persuaded to the contrary by catchy phrases, lies, criticism, or threats. Blessed are you who put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, and not in any human, human organization, or thing, for you shall be saved. Blessed are you who are as polite and courteous over email and usenet as you are in person, for people will delight in reading your posts. Jesus Christ is Lord! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3 Comment: http://cryptography.org iQA/AwUBNRnmwESP4McX10e7EQIGlQCg072fXTjFF1mxOD7WlzXJ+wuwi10AoNqe Gj3qBGozJr99BhQ3qAMGmhaw =++yn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 21:26:51 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 17:26:51 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Rhinocerous Hide and Net Manners Message-ID: <01C00094.ACB55A60@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01C00094.ACB55A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great post, Michael. I wish several of the people I've talked to recently would have read = that. They give being "easily offended" a whole new meaning, sigh. Did you write it, or find it somewhere else? The author deserves a = blessing from the Father for that one. Would that more Christians = understood what "love believes the best" really means! Bless you regardless, for sharing it with us! Glory unto the Lamb! 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I unfortunately don't know how to pick single addresses out of a group email list. In this case however since I opened my mouth in front of the whole group it is only appropriate that I complete my comments in the same manner so that accountability may be made to all I may have offended or confused by my comment. As I said, I apologize for jumping the gun earlier. But I feel I need to explain my comment on salvation. In a sense I guess it was in the same humor context that your original post was. I was trying to demonstrate what a small problem the Philemon 1:1 thing seemed. It was not a glitch (or feature) that affected the text of the book in any meaningful way, nor would it's existence mislead someone through wrongful reading and make them miss the key to Salvation. I was trying to compare it to a glitch tantamount to say, an accidental omission of John 3:16 or 14:6. However I do think my rather pointed tone blew the sarcasm right out of the letter. I honestly should have known better than to think someone on the list here would actually be trying to disrupt the work. I hope you can forgive my oversight. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Solomon Kostelnik To: Sent: Monday, 07 August, 2000 10:17 Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Pergamum and others, I understand that reading an email message can make interpretation difficult, since there's no tone, etc. That's why I put smilely faces, to hopefully point out when I am laughing or smiling in real life as I write it. Just to clarify, the others were right. My post wasn't intended to be mocking at all. I just wondered why if a person entered 1:1 for Philemon that it would consider it incorrect. Isn't this the mailing list for development of Sword? Since 1:1 exists in Philemon, I wondered why Sword thought it didn't and sent me to Hebrews instead. I think my question was valid, and not at all mocking. Apparently, others believe that it's a bug too, so it's not just me. I don't know why you brought salvation into this thread (?), as I was speaking of a software glitch, and not about anyone's faith. So, back to the subject, can anyone tell me how to pull up a specific verse in Philemon, or Jude, now that I think about it? Should I do "Phm 4" or "Jude 4" or will it think I'm asking for chapter 4? Or maybe there's just no current way to go directly to a verse in a single chapter book? To the developers, thanks in advance for considering my request! In the Love of Yahweh, Solomon -----Original Message----- From: Pergamum [SMTP:pergamum@netzero.net] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:09 AM To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation I have to disagree... correct me if I'm wrong but the chapter/verse feature is standard and universal in SWORD by default. So it would take extra coding to actually remove 1:1 from Philemon. My question is: What does that issue have to do with Salvation? Why strain at a gnat like that? So Philemon says "1:1". I don't think it should be made a point of contention. It's called simplifying the program. If Philemon works just fine saying 1:1, then live with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour their hearts into this work. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Solomon Kostelnik To: Sent: Sunday, 06 August, 2000 16:26 Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation haha, a feature. :) Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) Solomon ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 22:15:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:15:40 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <01C0009B.7F5B61C0@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01C0009B.7F5B61C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pergamum, I understand what you meant now. Still no hard feelings over here. :) = As I said, I know that the lack of tone and facial expressions can make = communicating online very difficult sometimes. Smilies can only go so = far, since they could possibly be used in a snide way. Thanks for the = apology, even though it was a misunderstanding. Just as a note for you and the others, my later comment on people being = easily offended was not directed towards you, but was about several = older women who recently wrote me (long story). They were decided on = making a souffle out of my words of encouragement. :) You're under grace! 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Thought you might like the feedback! Drewe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 23:01:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 17:01:17 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] Rhinocerous Hide and Net Manners In-Reply-To: <01C00094.ACB55A60@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000807165655.00b54e60@ebible.org> At 05:26 PM 8/7/00 -0400, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: >Great post, Michael. Thank you. >Did you write it, or find it somewhere else? The author deserves a blessing from the Father for that one. Would that more Christians understood what "love believes the best" really means! I wrote it. I post it regularly to certain other mailing lists that I moderate to help keep the tone Christian. I'm glad we are all under grace and forgiven. Let's be about our Father's business in love. :-) Jesus Christ is Lord! _______ Michael Paul Johnson mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 23:05:28 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (geoffrey W Hastings) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:05:28 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? Message-ID: <20000807.160530.-308865.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> I don't believe I would like the Apocrypha to be put into the same module as the KJV. I would not want to have to remember to do searches in custom search to omit the Apocrypha from my results. I wouldn't want seaches of the Apocrypha to pull up results from the KJV either. It might lead to confusion in instances where more than one person use the same computer if they do not all have the understanding that they are tied together, say in a church or bible college library etc... Geoff Hastings geoffreyhastings@juno.com On Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:41:41 -0700 (MST) writes: > > > On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: > > > If SWORD supports the markup aspect, then all we'd need is a > program to create the necessary verse-lookup? (.vss) file for the > Apocrypha. Does such an animal exist? :) > > The problem is that SWORD doesn't have a clue about anything outside > the > standard 66 book canon. Most of the grunt work in adding Apocrypha > support is probably in the canon.h file where the book/chapter index > arrays are held for each testament and the canon list/book orderings > are > held. That much I have completed from a while back, but there's > still a > bit more to do and I haven't had time to figure out what. If anyone > wants > my modified canon.h file to complete adding apocrypha support, > please mail > me. > > A .vss generating indexer for Apocrypha doesn't really exist. Once > support is included in the library, the existing indexers coudl be > modified to recognize Apocrypha fairly easily I suspect. > > Apocyrpha support raises another question of how we should package > such > portions of modules. The KJV Apocrypha,for example, should probably > go in > the same directory as our current KJV module, on the client's > computer. > However, I doubt the majority of our users who download the KJV > module > would want to be given the Apocrypha as part of their download > (whether > for bandwidth/filesize reasons or their concerns with orthodoxy). > So we > would need to provide a manner for parts of modules (e.g. the KJV > Apocrypha) to not be downloaded. Or we would need a method for > installing > supplements to modules to the same directory as the primary files. > And > I'm not sure if this may conflict with our current Installers or the > servlet on Crosswire. > > --Chris Little > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 15:20:46 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Peter Federighi) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:20:46 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Curses Port Message-ID: <398ED3CE.CCEE7CCC@yahoo.com> Hello. I was asked to subscribe to the devel list and post a message that I originally sent to Troy Griffitts regarding a curses port. He tells me that someone else has already begun. Would said person want some help? I look forward to hearing from you. - Peter === For some time now I have occasionally entertained the idea of writing a Bible program for unix since the only one I knew of was a command line KJV program. My original thought was to write the equivalent of the Online Bible program. I contacted the author of the MacOS version (I use it under Executor) but he declined to give me any information on the formats for any of the files. My next thought was to reverse engineer them, when I happened across the SWORD project. Wow, I thought, this is great. Then I noticed that a GTK+ version is already in the works, but that a curses port was wanted. I hereby volunteer to start one if one hasn't been started already. God bless you. === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 03:33:12 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:33:12 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: <20000807.160530.-308865.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> Message-ID: Very good point. Now I'm really uncertain of what the solution should be. Perhaps the advisable thing to do would be to make the OT & NT the default search extents and require that people include the intertestamentals specifically for searches or allow people to save their default search extents. Of course, that may be more on the front end side of things than the library backend. I'm still somewhat wary of dividing parts of the same work into different modules on the client's system, since the intertestamentals were translated right along with the OT & NT for the KJV. If we split the KJV and its Apocrypha, I suppose we would do likewise with the RSV, but what would we do with the Douay-Rheims or other Catholic translations? If we look at the competition, OLB splits its OT & NT from Apocrypha but none of the commercial products (BibleWorks, Logos, etc.) do so to my knowledge. Larry may have had no better reason, BTW, than the fact that his software can't support more than 32768 verses per module, and the Apocrypha would have put him way over that--or simply because his modules aren't very modular and can't be added to like ours could by adding new testaments. Just some more thoughts. Feel free to critique. :) --Chris Little On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, geoffrey W Hastings wrote: > I don't believe I would like the Apocrypha to be put into the same module > as the KJV. > I would not want to have to remember to do searches in custom search to > omit the Apocrypha from my results. > I wouldn't want seaches of the Apocrypha to pull up results from the KJV > either. > It might lead to confusion in instances where more than one person use > the same computer if they do not all have the understanding that they are > tied together, say in a church or bible college library etc... From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 14:02:53 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port Message-ID: <200008081402.KAA12659@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Peter, Help on the curses port is very much wanted. Earlier I posted to this mailing list about this port. Here is what I have changed since my last post: I realized that the choice of names 'zebra' is confusing or ambigous because of other software by that name. So instead I would like to call it 'irenaeus' so there will be no confusion in the future. Well, I fixed some of the glitches in the program, although there are still several that I need to fix. Now multi-word searches should work. Now there is a way to do a lookup from the results of a search. So I have thrown together a program that needs lots of work. Although it is a curses port, I would like to have it continue to support command line and cin/cout types of interfaces. This permits its use and interaction with other programs. The first example that I have, is an emacs mode. I have included an emacs mode (sword.el) that will call the irenaeus program and insert the returned bible verse, or list of references. I have started working on an interactive interface (swordint.el) that uses comint to pipe information between a running process, and an emacs buffer. (it doesn't work yet.) So it uses emacs as a front end, and just passes on the commands. The advantage of this is to use all of software for some well developed programs and have it easily integrate with sword. (Has anyone here worked with Mule (part of emacs supporting other languages fonts)?) I still don't have the write to commentary stuff working yet. so I have the updated code at http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/index.html Should I set up a CVS repository? Any preferences on how collaboration is done? raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 19:57:21 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 05:57:21 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port References: <200008081402.KAA12659@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <00eb01c00172$de25e9a0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > ... > so I have the updated code at > http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/index.html > > Should I set up a CVS repository? Any preferences on how collaboration > is done? Use the Sword CVS repository. I'm sure Troy would be happy to give you access to a section of it. PDG From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 19:59:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 05:59:01 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? References: Message-ID: <00f101c00173$18f12ea0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > ... > Perhaps the advisable thing to do would be to make the OT & NT the default > search extents and require that people include the intertestamentals > specifically for searches or allow people to save their default search > extents. Of course, that may be more on the front end side of things than > the library backend. > > I'm still somewhat wary of dividing parts of the same work into different > modules on the client's system, since the intertestamentals were > translated right along with the OT & NT for the KJV. If we split the KJV > and its Apocrypha, I suppose we would do likewise with the RSV, but what > would we do with the Douay-Rheims or other Catholic translations? > ... > Just some more thoughts. Feel free to critique. :) My vote goes for leaving them as part of the same module and changing the default search extent. It makes for a more consistent interface. Provide a non-Apocrypha version for people who don't want it. PDG From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 20:22:59 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 16:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port In-Reply-To: <00eb01c00172$de25e9a0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> from "Paul Gear" at Aug 09, 2000 05:57:21 AM Message-ID: <200008082022.QAA13814@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Paul Gear wrote: > > > ... > > so I have the updated code at > > http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/index.html > > > > Should I set up a CVS repository? Any preferences on how collaboration > > is done? > > Use the Sword CVS repository. I'm sure Troy would be happy to give you > access to a section of it. > > PDG > > The option that I was thinking of is sourceforge. gnomesword is hosted there with CVS. Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 22:57:32 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 15:57:32 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: References: <20000807.160530.-308865.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000808153908.00950f00@mail.dancris.com> Perhaps a toggle for user preference. Let the user choose between treating modules with both canonical and non-canonical material as two modules or one module. The setting should be able to be overridden when doing a search. As a companion feature to this, it would be good to let the user define (or select) what canon he uses. Just an idea. Jerry At 08:33 PM 8/7/2000 -0700, Chris Little wrote: >Very good point. Now I'm really uncertain of what the solution should be. > >Perhaps the advisable thing to do would be to make the OT & NT the default >search extents and require that people include the intertestamentals >specifically for searches or allow people to save their default search >extents. Of course, that may be more on the front end side of things than >the library backend. > >I'm still somewhat wary of dividing parts of the same work into different >modules on the client's system, since the intertestamentals were >translated right along with the OT & NT for the KJV. If we split the KJV >and its Apocrypha, I suppose we would do likewise with the RSV, but what >would we do with the Douay-Rheims or other Catholic translations? > >If we look at the competition, OLB splits its OT & NT from Apocrypha but >none of the commercial products (BibleWorks, Logos, etc.) do so to my >knowledge. Larry may have had no better reason, BTW, than the fact that >his software can't support more than 32768 verses per module, and the >Apocrypha would have put him way over that--or simply because his modules >aren't very modular and can't be added to like ours could by adding new >testaments. > >Just some more thoughts. Feel free to critique. :) > >--Chris Little > >On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, geoffrey W Hastings wrote: > > > I don't believe I would like the Apocrypha to be put into the same module > > as the KJV. > > I would not want to have to remember to do searches in custom search to > > omit the Apocrypha from my results. > > I wouldn't want seaches of the Apocrypha to pull up results from the KJV > > either. > > It might lead to confusion in instances where more than one person use > > the same computer if they do not all have the understanding that they are > > tied together, say in a church or bible college library etc... From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 13:14:23 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port Message-ID: <200008091314.JAA16291@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> I have just put my curses port irenaeus on sourceforge. should be available at sourceforge.net/projects/irenaeus Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 21:20:42 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Ron Walton) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 14:20:42 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Bug: Message-ID: <3991CB2A.DF7DA4A0@gemair.com> I get the following error during install of modules: Warning: TZ environment variable not found, cannot use UTC times!! I copy the zipped module to an empty directory, unzip it and run the setup.exe. The modules seem to install correctly. Ron From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 20:55:57 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 13:55:57 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] [Fwd: Request for free video tract of the Gospel] Message-ID: <3991C55D.97BC786D@crosswire.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------03BC43ACC71ECCCC1A3B4642 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another unfortunate response. --------------03BC43ACC71ECCCC1A3B4642 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from omicron.bgea.org (smtp.bgea.org [63.76.143.140]) by www.crosswire.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04384 for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:05:56 -0700 Received: from mmh.bgea.org [172.16.2.252] by omicron.bgea.org (SMTPD32-5.05) id A24956401DC; Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:09:45 -0500 From: "Dawn Evans" To: "Troy A. Griffitts" Subject: Request for free video tract of the Gospel Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000101c0021c$3d3caba0$fc0210ac@bgea.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal August 9, 2000 Dear Mr. Griffitts: Thank you for your email message and phone call to our Response Center of July 25, 2000 inquiring about the availability of a free video tract of the Gospel that your organization, Crosswire Bible Society, could include on the free Bible software CDs you are developing. Your request was forwarded to my department for response because we handle permission requests concerning Mr. Graham. We regret to inform you that we cannot grant you permission to include Mr. Graham's video image on your Bible CDs. We appreciate the fact that you are doing a good work and are trying to spread the Gospel, just as we are--it is just that we try to limit use of Mr. Graham's name or image to those projects done within our own organization. We hope you will be able to understand our position on this. Thanks again for your inquiry, Mr. Griffitts. We trust God will richly bless you and your new endeavor with the Bible software. Sincerely,   Stephen G. Scholle Director of Operational Services Billy Graham Evangelistic Association   SGS:de --------------03BC43ACC71ECCCC1A3B4642-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 21:46:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 21:46:56 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] The SWORD Cd in europe! Message-ID: <00080921465601.14048@joachim> Hi all! Perhaps you know that Troy sent me some SWORD CDs so we (the team of BibleTime) can ship them in Europe. We need some support from people in other european countrys. If you have a CD burner and want to send the SWORD CD out in your country please contact us at info@bibletime.de ! We'd be glad to have some support diong this job! And: IMHO Troy does also need support in the USA! Volunteers? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 21:09:24 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:09:24 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port References: <200008082022.QAA13814@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <017601c00246$19376180$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > > > ... > > > so I have the updated code at > > > http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/index.html > > > > > > Should I set up a CVS repository? Any preferences on how collaboration > > > is done? > > > > Use the Sword CVS repository. I'm sure Troy would be happy to give you > > access to a section of it. > > > The option that I was thinking of is sourceforge. gnomesword is hosted > there with CVS. Why make people go to two places for code when we can put them together? From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 21:12:39 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:12:39 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Open book unlocking system (was Re: Module verification, was Re: [sword-devel] DoctrinalStatement) References: <20000727.164437.-316621.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> <4.2.0.58.20000727224340.00a35a00@mail.dancris.com> <4.2.0.58.20000728222758.00a3ae00@mail.dancris.com> <4.2.0.58.20000805164627.00a3f260@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <019601c00246$8ca713e0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > Sorry this reply has taken so long. It looks like this is the kind of thing > that X.509 is for. I think it would be a great way to start working out > security. I didn't see anyone jumping on the idea to get it done though. Did you expect to? ;-) > Perhaps if a rough draft of a Sword implementation was created others may > take it up. Indeed. Well, sometime when i've got a spare year, i might be able to create a working implementation. :-( PDG From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 10 13:06:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Peter Federighi) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:06:31 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: Curses port References: <200008092053.QAA17549@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <3992A8D7.E8F08876@yahoo.com> Richard, Hi. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I grabbed your source off your web page and then spent considerable time trying to get it to compile. I finally gave up with the thought that maybe the version of ncurses that I have is incompatible with STL/G++ templates (it certainly seemed that way, though it should have been fine). So... I downloaded the latest stable version (5.1) and compiled it on my system. The I spent even longer trying to figure out why it didn't support the underline attribute on my terminal but worked fine in an xterm or rxvt. I finally traced it to the terminfo file that had the ncv option set to disable underline in color mode. Thus, with that finally figured out, I proceeded to try to compile your program. I got further this time. It produced errors because 'string::c_str()' returns 'const char*' while the function defs were for 'char*'. GCC (or the version I have) is getting extremely picky about arguments matching definitions exactly. So I overrode the data type with '(char *)' and everything compiled. It also didn't like some method being declared static. Would you like to know the files/lines that I changed? Now, to answer some of your questions... Yes, I do have ideas on how it should work. Troy suggested the msdos OLB as an interface, but I've never used it and have no idea what it was like. If it's anything like the Windows version I would prefer not to use it. I was mostly thinking of trying to do something close to the MacOS OLB interface. Not the greatest, but simple, and fairly easy (I bet I'll eat that later) to convert to a terminal interface. No, I don't have any experience writing curses programs. I have had to dive into it here and there in order to make some poorly written interfaces work properly. That was a long time ago and I've replaced most such programs with their X equivalent. I was hoping to use this project as a learning time as well. As far as curses goes, is the port supposed to be for plain curses or can ncurses features be used (color, mouse, panels, etc.)? If ncurses features are allowed, how about using ncurses++? I haven't looked into to it too greatly, but since I got the latest ncurses anyway, I figured I'd make sure the C++ bindings were compiled in so GCC wouldn't barf the way it did before. As an added bonus it compiles the ncurses++ library. For collaborating, I think private email would be best, so we don't fill peoples inboxes. As for CVS. I've never used it. I don't have a clue as to how it works. Is it easy? How much drive space does it take up? Is it easier than mailing patches to each other? I think drive space is probably the biggest factor right now, though not for much longer. I suppose you might want to know something about me and the system I'm using. Or maybe not, but I'm going to tell you anyway =). My system is currently: Linux 2.2.16, GCC 2.95.3, Ncurses 5.1, GPM 1.17.8, XFree86 4.0, Rxvt 2.6.3, and Gnome 1.2.3. The editors that I use most are Joe 2.8 and NEdit 5.1.1. I don't have Emacs. As soon as I get a larger HD I plan to install BeOS and FreeBSD (as well as Linux) and see how they compare. It might be good to experiment with compiling on BeOS anyway (the thought of a text based BeOS program is sort of odd, though). My coding style is probably weird to most people. I love 4 space hardware tabs and long lines (I typically use a 132 column terminal or larger). I'll try to follow your coding style, if you'll put up with me when I get frustrated and don't. A pseudo example (spaces used instead of tabs, notice the long line): boolean A_Class::a_method(int32 arg) { uint8 extravar; if (arg >= 0) { cout << "Enter a number from 0-255: "; cin >> extravar; cout << "The name of the character corresponding to the number you typed is: " << ASCII.character_name[extravar] << endl; return TRUE; } else return FALSE; } Well, about me: I love my Lord! My soul is saved by the blood of Jesus! I regularily attend Calvary Chapel of Olympia. My favorite color is emerald green. My hobbies include: working on cars, writing the occasional program, hiking, biking, and rock collecting. My favorite musical styles are techno/rave and 60s/70s Jesus people. My favorite bands are Kraftwerk and Danielson Famile. I live in Olympia, WA where it rains more that Seattle. I hope someday to go back to school and study EE/CE. I live with four other guys in the eastside guys' house. We formed it for mutual edification and encouragement in the faith. There's also the Tumwater guys' house and the Ladies' house which is in downtown Olympia and is the location of the fine motion picture 'Tragedy at Stranglewood'. Perhaps if we ever meet I'll show it to you =). This is probably a lot more info than you wanted. I look forward to hearing from you. God bless you. - Peter raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > Peter, > > I am glad to see interest in the curses port. > I have moved it to sourceforge under project irenaeus. > > Is there any particular part that you are interested in? > Any particular application or enviroment? Any ideas about how it should > work? Do you have experience with writing curses programs? > > What do you want to do? > > Richard Holcombe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 02:38:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:38:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] sourceforge In-Reply-To: <3992A8D7.E8F08876@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I set us up on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/sword). It's not for CVS, mailing lists, or any of the other stuff we already have on crosswire.org, but it's for all the other stuff we don't have and just for general publicity. So, head on over, check it out, comment on what sort of stuff you think we ought to use/add to the site there, etc. If you're interested in contributing in the area of support or documentation writing or whatever, please let me know what your sourceforge login is and I'll add you in. Thoughts/comments appreciated. --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 13:37:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (William J Conroy) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:37:16 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] remove References: Message-ID: <3994018C.8CD72D9C@bms.com> Please remove name from mailing list (conroyw@bms.com). Thanks Chris Little wrote: > I set us up on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/sword). > > It's not for CVS, mailing lists, or any of the other stuff we already have > on crosswire.org, but it's for all the other stuff we don't have and just > for general publicity. > > So, head on over, check it out, comment on what sort of stuff you think we > ought to use/add to the site there, etc. If you're interested in > contributing in the area of support or documentation writing or whatever, > please let me know what your sourceforge login is and I'll add you in. > > Thoughts/comments appreciated. > > --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 20:19:52 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:19:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] GPL Palm Bible software found Message-ID: While searching around sourceforge, I came upon a message with a link to someone's GPLed Bible software. Some reviews I've read of it say it's pretty unstable and not so wonderful, but I've not yet had an opportunity to try it for myself. The author has got support for taking QuickVerse's STEP titles (just some of the Bibles) and converting them to a format for his own reader, which looks pretty interesting. I'll email him right now and ask if he'd be interested in joining us, but even if not, we could use his work as a base form which to work. Check his stuff out at http://www.angelfire.com/mi/tzstuff/ . --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 20:29:36 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:29:36 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? Message-ID: I'm sure this question has been asked a gazillion times before and I've just missed the answers, but is there any way of using SWORD from Java, either as a pure Java class in early development or with some Java interface to the compiled C++ libraries? I've just started working with/learning Java and figured out that this Java-thing is pretty cool. :) I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at developing Palm stuff with KVM. So is anything already available or is this stuff very easy to accomplish? --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 21:39:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:39:47 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? References: Message-ID: <399472A3.7B56C8D6@crosswire.org> Chris, You can check out module 'jsword' from our CVS repository. It currently has all of our Java work. You won't be able to traverse a module, but you can use SWMgr to examine what modules are installed for a sword install and get some other information. There are the beginnings of things in there that will allow you to read a module, but work stopped at VerseKey. I've been wanting to rewrite VerseKey.cpp for some time now and thought it not a good time to port the existing code to Java. For an example, go to our module download page on our website and view the list of some module type (Bibles, Commentaries, etc.). At the end of the list, there will be a link to source for ModDisp.jsp This is where you will see the Java code in action. -Troy. Chris Little wrote: > > I'm sure this question has been asked a gazillion times before and I've > just missed the answers, but is there any way of using SWORD from Java, > either as a pure Java class in early development or with some Java > interface to the compiled C++ libraries? I've just started working > with/learning Java and figured out that this Java-thing is pretty cool. :) > > I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o > the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at > developing Palm stuff with KVM. > > So is anything already available or is this stuff very easy to accomplish? > > --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 12 09:08:13 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:08:13 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: Curses port References: <200008092053.QAA17549@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> <3992A8D7.E8F08876@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701c0043c$d98206a0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > ... > Thus, with that finally figured out, I proceeded to try to compile your > program. I got further this time. It produced errors because > 'string::c_str()' returns 'const char*' while the function defs were for > 'char*'. GCC (or the version I have) is getting extremely picky about > arguments matching definitions exactly. So I overrode the data type with > '(char *)' and everything compiled. It also didn't like some method being > declared static. Fix the functions that require char * - don't pander to them with casts. You could really screw up your strings that way if you're not careful. > ... > My coding style is probably weird to most people. I love 4 space > hardware tabs and long lines (I typically use a 132 column terminal or > larger). I'll try to follow your coding style, if you'll put up with me > when I get frustrated and don't. Changing hardware tabs (oxymoron of the day) is for people who don't know about set shiftwidth, ^T, ^D, <<, and >> in vi. :-) PDG From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 21:58:45 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joe Walker) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:58:45 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o > the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at > developing Palm stuff with KVM. Take care with the KVM. From what I can see it is a) not a JVM and b) a bad idea Not a JVM? The problem I think was that to Classload, for example java.lang.String you also have to Classload a zillion other classes which it references. Pop goes your 1Mb memory (or whatever). So the KVM rewrites all the code libs to remove class inter-dependancies, and pop goes any hope of compatibility. Bad idea? Well Moore Law says that in a few months Palms will have fast StrongARMs and 64Mb of memory etc. So I'd suggest developing for a PC now and waiting on a Palm. Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 14 21:27:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:27:03 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> OK Joachim ;) I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized a few search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, multiword searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey). You'll need the latest CVS source to try it out. There is a utility: sword/utilities/mkfastmod that will create the search framework for a module if it is supported for the module type. *** THIS IS A REFERENCE IMPLEMENTATION. There are others much more capable than myself (Trevor! :) ) that could do a much better job. This example should make the sword aspects of the job less mystic. New/Augmented framework methods: virtual ListKey &SWModule::Search(const char *istr, int searchType = 0, int flags = 0, SWKey *scope = 0, bool *justCheckIfSupported = 0); justCheckIfSupported was added to allow one to see if THIS search routine will perform the search. This is not a check to see if the search is ultimately supported (maybe by the base class). virtual char SWModule::createSearchFramework(); This will ask the module to build (or rebuild) any special search framework that it supports. virtual bool SWModule::hasSearchFramework(); This allows one to check if the module driver supports a search framework. virtual bool SWModule::isSearchOptimallySupported(const char *istr, int searchType, int flags, SWKey *scope); This allows one to check if the search will be handled in the most optimized way (ie. if there is a search framework and it does not handle this case, this will be false) Let me know if it works! :) It compiles :) j/k Also, if there are any questions by anyone wishing to build a real search framework, please ask! -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi! > > My first article in this group! > > A really slow thing of SWORD is the searching part! In comparision with > other programs it takes too long. > > Perhaps you noticed some months ago that Trevor Jenkins offered his help on > this topic. > But nothing happened. > > My question is: How do we get a more fast searching algorithm? > > -- Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 14 23:14:32 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Trevor Jenkins) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:14:32 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support Message-ID: > There is a utility: sword/utilities/mkfastmod that will create the > search framework for a module if it is supported for the module type. > > *** THIS IS A REFERENCE IMPLEMENTATION. There are others much more > capable than myself (Trevor! :) ) that could do a much better job. This > example should make the sword aspects of the job less mystic. I hear you. Well my ears (or is it eyes as it's email) do but my body and more importantly my ind don't.:-( I'm still off work because of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome---just keeping up with the email is tiring but with the CFS-induced brain fog I miss a lot. I've not forgotten about fast searching within Sword and have been working on it as brain fog allows. (But my Linux machine just died on me after long years of service so it too is suffering; looks like a complete hardware rebuild is necessary---wish it was that easy for me). Keep badgering me about it because there will come a day when I recover and can return to normality. He promised. Regards, Trevor British Sign Language is not inarticulate handwaving; it's a living language. So recognise it now. -- <>< Re: deemed! From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 01:17:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:17:17 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> OK, fixed a few bugs. Any early testers should update their CVS tree and make clean; make -Troy. "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > OK Joachim ;) > > I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized a few > search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, multiword > searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey). You'll need the latest > CVS source to try it out. > > There is a utility: sword/utilities/mkfastmod that will create the > search framework for a module if it is supported for the module type. > > *** THIS IS A REFERENCE IMPLEMENTATION. There are others much more > capable than myself (Trevor! :) ) that could do a much better job. This > example should make the sword aspects of the job less mystic. > > New/Augmented framework methods: > > virtual ListKey &SWModule::Search(const char *istr, int searchType = 0, > int flags = 0, SWKey *scope = 0, bool *justCheckIfSupported = 0); > > justCheckIfSupported was added to allow one to see if THIS search > routine will perform the search. This is not a check to see if the > search is ultimately supported (maybe by the base class). > > virtual char SWModule::createSearchFramework(); > > This will ask the module to build (or rebuild) any special search > framework that it supports. > > virtual bool SWModule::hasSearchFramework(); > > This allows one to check if the module driver supports a search > framework. > > virtual bool SWModule::isSearchOptimallySupported(const char *istr, int > searchType, int flags, SWKey *scope); > > This allows one to check if the search will be handled in the most > optimized way (ie. if there is a search framework and it does not handle > this case, this will be false) > > Let me know if it works! :) It compiles :) j/k Also, if there are > any questions by anyone wishing to build a real search framework, please > ask! > > -Troy. > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > My first article in this group! > > > > A really slow thing of SWORD is the searching part! In comparision with > > other programs it takes too long. > > > > Perhaps you noticed some months ago that Trevor Jenkins offered his help on > > this topic. > > But nothing happened. > > > > My question is: How do we get a more fast searching algorithm? > > > > -- Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 01:25:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Marsh) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:25:48 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Message-ID: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EEC@HANSEN-NT1> Hi all, As some may be aware, I am interested in developing a frontend for Sword in VB. This is not a major development as it is really to help me learn VB better and because I don't particularly like the current Windows front end. I also will be fitting development work in between Course commitments and family commitments, so will be fairly slow moving. I have been supplied with a Sword DLL, which is apparently quite old. I have a few questions, though: 1. Is there a new Sword DLL being created? 2. I have read the Sword API Primer, but it doesn't help me much. It seems to be rather old and out of date. Is there any better documentation on how to use the API? 3. I can read C code, but C++ is a little beyond me, but which source code files should I look at for examples of how to get a text to display? That is, how to use the API to load a module, read it and display it using SWKey() etc. Any pointers would be most helpful. 4. Any other info I would need would also be gratefully received. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 02:56:25 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Derek seipp) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:56:25 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword In-Reply-To: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EEC@HANSEN-NT1> Message-ID: <000501c00664$67017960$1362010a@derekseipp> Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible time, which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows based.. Maybe this is not even possible though.. Derek -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org [mailto:owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org]On Behalf Of Chris Marsh Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 9:26 PM To: Sword-devel Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Hi all, As some may be aware, I am interested in developing a frontend for Sword in VB. This is not a major development as it is really to help me learn VB better and because I don't particularly like the current Windows front end. I also will be fitting development work in between Course commitments and family commitments, so will be fairly slow moving. I have been supplied with a Sword DLL, which is apparently quite old. I have a few questions, though: 1. Is there a new Sword DLL being created? 2. I have read the Sword API Primer, but it doesn't help me much. It seems to be rather old and out of date. Is there any better documentation on how to use the API? 3. I can read C code, but C++ is a little beyond me, but which source code files should I look at for examples of how to get a text to display? That is, how to use the API to load a module, read it and display it using SWKey() etc. Any pointers would be most helpful. 4. Any other info I would need would also be gratefully received. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 03:21:33 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Marsh) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:21:33 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Message-ID: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EF6@HANSEN-NT1> Hi, It looks like I didn't make myself clear. I wish to produce a front end for Sword in VB for my own Programming Experience. I need to learn VB for work and thought that this would be a great project to get started. I like Bibletime myself and have contributed to discussions for it's development. This VB is for myself (and if anyone else wants it). It's not going to replace using the current Sword frontend for my Theology course at this stage (and probably wouldn't be finished in time anyway). I would love to see a port of Bibletime for Windows and even thought of calling mine Bibletime, but it wouldn't do justice to the real Bibletime, so I won't. Regardless, I am just after a bit more detail than the API Primer gives. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 -----Original Message----- From: Derek seipp [mailto:dseipp@usaor.net] Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2000 12:56 To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: RE: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible time, which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows based.. Maybe this is not even possible though.. Derek -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org [mailto:owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org]On Behalf Of Chris Marsh Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 9:26 PM To: Sword-devel Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Hi all, As some may be aware, I am interested in developing a frontend for Sword in VB. This is not a major development as it is really to help me learn VB better and because I don't particularly like the current Windows front end. I also will be fitting development work in between Course commitments and family commitments, so will be fairly slow moving. I have been supplied with a Sword DLL, which is apparently quite old. I have a few questions, though: 1. Is there a new Sword DLL being created? 2. I have read the Sword API Primer, but it doesn't help me much. It seems to be rather old and out of date. Is there any better documentation on how to use the API? 3. I can read C code, but C++ is a little beyond me, but which source code files should I look at for examples of how to get a text to display? That is, how to use the API to load a module, read it and display it using SWKey() etc. Any pointers would be most helpful. 4. Any other info I would need would also be gratefully received. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 07:14:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Tsoloane Moahloli) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:14:56 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just on the Java front, what is the format of the VSS file, and is it possible for someone else to port the VerseKey class. I can do this, starting in the next few weeks if I have this format. Cheers. T. On 11-Aug-2000 Joe Walker wrote: > > Hi, > >> I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o >> the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at >> developing Palm stuff with KVM. > > Take care with the KVM. From what I can see it is > a) not a JVM and > b) a bad idea > > Not a JVM? The problem I think was that to Classload, for example > java.lang.String you also have to Classload a zillion other classes which it > references. Pop goes your 1Mb memory (or whatever). So the KVM rewrites all > the code libs to remove class inter-dependancies, and pop goes any hope of > compatibility. > > Bad idea? Well Moore Law says that in a few months Palms will have fast > StrongARMs and 64Mb of memory etc. So I'd suggest developing for a PC now > and waiting on a Palm. > > Joe. -- When was the last time you did something for the first time? Tsoloane Moahloli Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. phone +27 11 706 7054 email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 17:47:22 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:47:22 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support In-Reply-To: <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000815100118.00a45520@mail.dancris.com> --=====================_47294151==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:27 PM 8/14/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized a few >search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, multiword >searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey). You'll need the latest >CVS source to try it out. While working on search features, consider the following: 1) a button or check box for exact word. (Probably a front end issue.) This would force an RE search and add the expressions needed to mark the start and endings of words. 2) a button for logical OR. (Probably a front end issue.) This would force an RE search and place the vertical bar. 3) an exclude from results search. Like the search results search, but instead of keeping the hits and removing the others, do the opposite, remove the hits. 4) Found word list. Because the default ways of searching search for strings, not words, it would nice to be able to see what words were hit by the search string. This would go well with item 3. I have uploaded two bmps based on the Win32 front end. The newsearch.bmp shows more features and a possible new layout for the win32 search window. However, the two item in the Narrow Results line should be changed to "Must Contain" and "Must Not Contain." That could also be "Must Have" and Must Not Have." http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/search.bmp http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/newsearch.bmp Also, Win32 front end should have a Help button or Menu item. Jerry --=====================_47294151==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:27 PM 8/14/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized a few
search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, multiword
searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey).  You'll need the latest
CVS source to try it out.

While working on search features, consider the following:

1) a button or check box for exact word. (Probably a front end issue.)
        This would force an RE search and add the expressions needed
        to mark the start and endings of words.

2) a button for logical OR. (Probably a front end issue.)
        This would force an RE search and place the vertical bar.

3) an exclude from results search.
        Like the search results search, but instead of keeping the hits
        and removing the others, do the opposite, remove the hits. 

4) Found word list.
        Because the default ways of searching search for strings,
        not words, it would nice to be able to see what words were
        hit by the search string. This would go well with item 3.

I have uploaded two bmps based on the Win32 front end. The newsearch.bmp shows more features and a possible new layout for the win32 search window. However, the two item in the Narrow Results line should be changed to "Must Contain" and "Must Not Contain." That could also be "Must Have" and Must Not Have."

http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/search.bmp
http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/newsearch.bmp

Also, Win32 front end should have a Help button or Menu item.

Jerry


--=====================_47294151==_.ALT-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 17:45:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:45:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword In-Reply-To: <000501c00664$67017960$1362010a@derekseipp> Message-ID: KDE is built on Qt, which is owned by Troll Tech (a company just slightly less evil than MS ). Qt is free on *nix systems, but on Windows, it costs $1500 for the libraries so there probably won't every be any KDE libraries ported to Win32, hence no BibleTime. Cheatah might be portable, and possibly GnomeSword since they're based on GTK+ and GNOME respectively (I think) and I know GTK+ is ported to Win32 enough to run the GIMP. Then there's the wxWindows front end, which ought to be ready for compilation on Linux or Win32 since wx is crossplatform, but I've never had any luck w/ compiling the front end on Linux even. :) It certainly would be nice if we could have a group developing for both *nix and Win32 simultaneously, because the Win32 front end doesn't seem to be luring users as much as it could be. --Chris Little On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Derek seipp wrote: > Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible time, > which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... > > My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows based.. > > Maybe this is not even possible though.. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 19:18:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Co Ho) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:18:31 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] sourceforge Message-ID: <7F152EE1445DD211A92400104B8DBED0CE824E@exchange> Good work, Chris. I think we can use it for bug tracking, task delegating, and doing documentation (or atleast, the much needed FAQ you lamented about), or even releasing the modules there as well. Co Ho. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 17:04:42 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:04:42 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword In-Reply-To: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EEC@HANSEN-NT1> References: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EEC@HANSEN-NT1> Message-ID: <00081517044200.00281@joachim> Hi Chris! > Hi all, > As some may be aware, I am interested in developing a frontend for Sword in > VB. This is not a major development as it is really to help me learn VB > better and because I don't particularly like the current Windows front end. > I also will be fitting development work in between Course commitments and > family commitments, so will be fairly slow moving. I have been supplied > with a Sword DLL, which is apparently quite old. I have a few questions, > though: > > 1. Is there a new Sword DLL being created? > 2. I have read the Sword API Primer, but it doesn't help me much. It seems > to be rather old and out of date. Is there any better documentation on how > to use the API? Mmh, you can have a look at the backend classes of BibleTime 0.3 and later (bibletime-2/bibletime/backend/sword/). There's much example code. But sadly it's C++. Feel free to ask, I'll try to give hints because you helped discussing BT 1.0's features. > 3. I can read C code, but C++ is a little beyond me, but which source code > files should I look at for examples of how to get a text to display? That > is, how to use the API to load a module, read it and display it using > SWKey() etc. Any pointers would be most helpful. > 4. Any other info I would need would also be gratefully received. > > In Christ, > > Chris Marsh > > Analyst Programmer > Hansen Corporation > Ph: (03) 9843 8438 > Fax: (03) 9843 8590 --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 21:31:44 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:31:44 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00081521314400.08085@joachim> Hi! No flamewar, ok ? > KDE is built on Qt, which is owned by Troll Tech (a company just slightly > less evil than MS ). Qt is free on *nix systems, but on Windows, it Hey, Qt is an excellent toolkit ans very good for coding (very good structure etc.). KDE2 is cool, too. See the other side: Trolltech makes this expensive available for free for Unix coers ;-) > costs $1500 for the libraries so there probably won't every be any KDE > libraries ported to Win32, hence no BibleTime. Cheatah might be portable, > and possibly GnomeSword since they're based on GTK+ and GNOME respectively > (I think) and I know GTK+ is ported to Win32 enough to run the GIMP. Then > there's the wxWindows front end, which ought to be ready for compilation > on Linux or Win32 since wx is crossplatform, but I've never had any luck > w/ compiling the front end on Linux even. :) Is somebody on this list billionaire? With some of his money we could buy Trolltech and port KDE ;-) > It certainly would be nice if we could have a group developing for both > *nix and Win32 simultaneously, because the Win32 front end doesn't seem to > be luring users as much as it could be. Why not wait until Kylix is out, it source compatible, isn't it ? > --Chris Little > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Derek seipp wrote: > > Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible > > time, which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... > > > > My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows > > based.. > > > > Maybe this is not even possible though.. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 21:04:53 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:04:53 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? References: Message-ID: <3999B075.8630B2ED@crosswire.org> Please. Many people have asked for a Java interface to our API and modules. The vss format is quite simple really. Rather than descibe it, I'd rather point you in the direction of sword/src/modules/common/rawverse.cpp This file contains the low level routines to operate on the .vss file, but basically it's a 6 byte record: struct { unsigned long offset, unsigned short size } I've been following the premise of porting class for class from C++ to Java so that someone familiar with the API could use either language with a minimum learning curve. Any comments on this? Thanks again for all the offers to help! -Troy. Tsoloane Moahloli wrote: > > Just on the Java front, what is the format of the VSS file, and is it possible > for someone else to port the VerseKey class. I can do this, starting in the > next few weeks if I have this format. > > Cheers. > T. > On 11-Aug-2000 Joe Walker wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > >> I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o > >> the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at > >> developing Palm stuff with KVM. > > > > Take care with the KVM. From what I can see it is > > a) not a JVM and > > b) a bad idea > > > > Not a JVM? The problem I think was that to Classload, for example > > java.lang.String you also have to Classload a zillion other classes which it > > references. Pop goes your 1Mb memory (or whatever). So the KVM rewrites all > > the code libs to remove class inter-dependancies, and pop goes any hope of > > compatibility. > > > > Bad idea? Well Moore Law says that in a few months Palms will have fast > > StrongARMs and 64Mb of memory etc. So I'd suggest developing for a PC now > > and waiting on a Palm. > > > > Joe. > > -- > When was the last time you did something for the first time? > > Tsoloane Moahloli > Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. > phone +27 11 706 7054 > email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 23:21:15 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Marsh) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:21:15 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Message-ID: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6F3E@HANSEN-NT1> > It certainly would be nice if we could have a group developing for both > *nix and Win32 simultaneously, because the Win32 front end doesn't seem to > be luring users as much as it could be. Why not wait until Kylix is out, it source compatible, isn't it ? What an idea! Delphi is my choice anyway, VB is just for Work. I might start work in Delphi, I was having trouble with the old Delphi code though, but I might just take another look....:) Chris Marsh > --Chris Little > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Derek seipp wrote: > > Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible > > time, which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... > > > > My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows > > based.. > > > > Maybe this is not even possible though.. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 06:39:05 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Tsoloane Moahloli) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:39:05 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? In-Reply-To: <3999B075.8630B2ED@crosswire.org> Message-ID: I'll have a look at it. I am currently stuck in a project at work that is in it's last throes, but I should be done be the end of August and I should have a little respite!! On 15-Aug-2000 Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Please. Many people have asked for a Java interface to our API and > modules. The vss format is quite simple really. Rather than descibe > it, I'd rather point you in the direction of > sword/src/modules/common/rawverse.cpp This file contains the low level > routines to operate on the .vss file, but basically it's a 6 byte > record: struct { unsigned long offset, unsigned short size } > > I've been following the premise of porting class for class from C++ to > Java so that someone familiar with the API could use either language > with a minimum learning curve. Any comments on this? > > Thanks again for all the offers to help! > > -Troy. > > > > > Tsoloane Moahloli wrote: >> >> Just on the Java front, what is the format of the VSS file, and is it >> possible >> for someone else to port the VerseKey class. I can do this, starting in >> the >> next few weeks if I have this format. >> >> Cheers. >> T. >> On 11-Aug-2000 Joe Walker wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> >> I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o >> >> the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at >> >> developing Palm stuff with KVM. >> > >> > Take care with the KVM. From what I can see it is >> > a) not a JVM and >> > b) a bad idea >> > >> > Not a JVM? The problem I think was that to Classload, for example >> > java.lang.String you also have to Classload a zillion other classes which >> > it >> > references. Pop goes your 1Mb memory (or whatever). So the KVM rewrites >> > all >> > the code libs to remove class inter-dependancies, and pop goes any hope of >> > compatibility. >> > >> > Bad idea? Well Moore Law says that in a few months Palms will have fast >> > StrongARMs and 64Mb of memory etc. So I'd suggest developing for a PC now >> > and waiting on a Palm. >> > >> > Joe. >> >> -- >> When was the last time you did something for the first time? >> >> Tsoloane Moahloli >> Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. >> phone +27 11 706 7054 >> email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za -- When was the last time you did something for the first time? Tsoloane Moahloli Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. phone +27 11 706 7054 email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 08:04:22 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Kri=B9tof?= Petr) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:04:22 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword References: <00081521314400.08085@joachim> Message-ID: <399A4B06.15E72A4B@Kristof.CZ> Joachim Ansorg wrote: > Hi! > > No flamewar, ok ? > > > KDE is built on Qt, which is owned by Troll Tech (a company just slightly > > less evil than MS ). Qt is free on *nix systems, but on Windows, it > > Hey, Qt is an excellent toolkit ans very good for coding (very good structure > etc.). KDE2 is cool, too. > See the other side: Trolltech makes this expensive available for free for > Unix coers ;-) > > > costs $1500 for the libraries so there probably won't every be any KDE > > libraries ported to Win32, hence no BibleTime. Cheatah might be portable, > > and possibly GnomeSword since they're based on GTK+ and GNOME respectively > > (I think) and I know GTK+ is ported to Win32 enough to run the GIMP. Then > > there's the wxWindows front end, which ought to be ready for compilation > > on Linux or Win32 since wx is crossplatform, but I've never had any luck > > w/ compiling the front end on Linux even. :) > > Is somebody on this list billionaire? With some of his money we could buy > Trolltech and port KDE ;-) > Windows version is free for universities. http://www.trolltech.com/company/announce/edu.html P. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 22:53:54 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:53:54 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support In-Reply-To: <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00081522151100.17933@joachim> Hi Troy! A very good thing this fast search! Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than normal search before. I'm using this code and I think it's correct . Is it? if (!module->isSearchOptimallySupported( text.latin1(), searchType, searchParams, myScope) ) { //rebuild search framework if it's available if (module->hasSearchFramework()) { module->createSearchFramework(); } } for (ListKey &searchResultList = module->Search(text.latin1(), searchType, searchParams, myScope); !searchResultList.Error(); searchResultList++) { //handling with own classes, creating search result items of a list etc. } A bug: After I created the index using createSEarchFrameWork() it won' be registered until next restart! I mean that hasSearchFrameWork returns false until next restart. I measured with and without index files and noticed taht searching takes evenlonger as before for often used words like god or jesus, but is very fast for words like "testing" (they appear very very rare). --Joachim > OK, > fixed a few bugs. Any early testers should update their CVS tree and > make clean; make > > -Troy. > > "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > OK Joachim ;) > > > > I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized > > a few search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, > > multiword searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey). You'll need > > the latest CVS source to try it out. > > > > There is a utility: sword/utilities/mkfastmod that will create the > > search framework for a module if it is supported for the module type. > > > > *** THIS IS A REFERENCE IMPLEMENTATION. There are others much more > > capable than myself (Trevor! :) ) that could do a much better job. This > > example should make the sword aspects of the job less mystic. > > > > New/Augmented framework methods: > > > > virtual ListKey &SWModule::Search(const char *istr, int searchType = 0, > > int flags = 0, SWKey *scope = 0, bool *justCheckIfSupported = 0); > > > > justCheckIfSupported was added to allow one to see if THIS search > > routine will perform the search. This is not a check to see if the > > search is ultimately supported (maybe by the base class). > > > > virtual char SWModule::createSearchFramework(); > > > > This will ask the module to build (or rebuild) any special search > > framework that it supports. > > > > virtual bool SWModule::hasSearchFramework(); > > > > This allows one to check if the module driver supports a search > > framework. > > > > virtual bool SWModule::isSearchOptimallySupported(const char *istr, int > > searchType, int flags, SWKey *scope); > > > > This allows one to check if the search will be handled in the > > most optimized way (ie. if there is a search framework and it does not > > handle this case, this will be false) > > > > Let me know if it works! :) It compiles :) j/k Also, if there > > are any questions by anyone wishing to build a real search framework, > > please ask! > > > > -Troy. > > > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > > > My first article in this group! > > > > > > A really slow thing of SWORD is the searching part! In comparision with > > > other programs it takes too long. > > > > > > Perhaps you noticed some months ago that Trevor Jenkins offered his > > > help on this topic. > > > But nothing happened. > > > > > > My question is: How do we get a more fast searching algorithm? > > > > > > -- Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 23:41:51 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:41:51 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Template for international booknames Message-ID: <00081623415101.12334@joachim> Hi! I added a template for international booknames in sword/doc/ . I hope it's useful, it contains some help how to do the tarnslation. And I fixed a small bug in mkfastmod so it works. -Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 23:30:52 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:30:52 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> Message-ID: <399B242C.98530642@crosswire.org> > A very good thing this fast search! :) > Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than normal > search before. > > I'm using this code and I think it's correct . Is it? > > if (!module->isSearchOptimallySupported( text.latin1(), searchType, > searchParams, myScope) ) { > //rebuild search framework if it's available > if (module->hasSearchFramework()) { > module->createSearchFramework(); > } > } Not quite, maybe we should rethink the functionality of these methods. Please take some time to follow this logic closely as it can be very confusing. I had a tough time coming up with appropriate methods and probably did not do such a good job. There are many states to consider: Mod driver supports Module has framework Framework supports a framework (A) built (B) search scenerio (C) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 O O O 4.........X........................O.........................O 5 X O X 6.........X........................X.........................O 7 X X X I believe you want to offer the option to the user to build the search framework in situations 4 and 5-- condition (A) is true but condition (B) is false. Your check: if (!module->isSearchOptimallySupported( text.latin1(), searchType, searchParams, myScope) ) { tells you that a search is not handled by the optimum code. This happens in scenerios 4, 5, 6. It is useful for telling the user that their current search scenerio may take unusually long. SWModule::Search returns true to the function isSearchOptimallySupported in the case that there is no other framework to support the search. It is handled as optimum as any other search on this module. You next call seems to try to filter out scenerio 0, which is already filtered out by the first call. Instead, you should filter out the problem scenerio (6) with a call like: bool isSupported = false; module->Search( text.latin1(), searchType, searchParams, myScope, &isSupported ); if (isSupported) module->createSearchFramework(); Maybe we should provide a method like, canSearchBeOptimized(...) that takes care of both checks for the frontend programmer. Or maybe we should just offer methods that return the condition of (A), (B), and (C) as stated above and let the frontend programmer do all of the logic. > I measured with and without index files and noticed taht searching takes > evenlonger as before for often used words like god or jesus, but is very fast > for words like "testing" (they appear very very rare). You should notice an exponential increase in speed if the framework is used. Remember, only for case-INSENSITIVE, multi-word searches bound by the scope of a VerseKey. This seems to be the most popular search scenerio. Let me know how it goes. I'd love to hear if you get it working. -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 23:36:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Marsh) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:36:03 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] DLL Message-ID: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6FCC@HANSEN-NT1> I hate to appear pushy, but has this been done yet? If not, can someone supply instructions on how to do this and I might give it a go myself. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 -----Original Message----- From: scribe@crosswire.org [mailto:scribe@crosswire.org] Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2000 10:43 To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] DLL I will build a new DLL when I get back in town. The code for the DLL has not been updated for quite some time. There is a difference with other language bindings to C++. They need to be standard C procedural methods. You actually could do C++ to Delphi provided no multiple inheritance (which we do), but other languages need a standard sig on the methods in the DLL (no C++ manglings). Anyway, until I get it done, you should be able to play with a really old version on the site at: ftp://ftp.crosswire.org/pub/sword/attic/dlls.tar.gz I think it's dated '97, so beware. Though, this is probably good, since the delphi code hasn't been changed since then either :) Hope this helps. I actually need to do this anyway, since we seem to have requests for a number of other language bindings. -Troy. Chris Marsh wrote: > > What we need here is someone with c++ experience (not me, yet) to create > these DLL's for us plebs used to visual tools like Delphi & VB. I don't > even have a c++ compiler to use and certainly don't know how to create a DLL > even if I had a compiler. > > Any volunteers? > > Chris Marsh > > Analyst Programmer > Hansen Corporation > Ph: (03) 9843 8438 > Fax: (03) 9843 8590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Philip Kapusta [mailto:info@pc-shareware.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2000 8:44 > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > Subject: [sword-devel] DLL > > > But you can use DLLs generated by C++-Builder or whatever in Delphi! > > True, that is IF a DLL existed in the distribution ZIP. > > > Isn't there an DLL shipped with the SWORD windows frontend? > > No. I found not a single .DLL file in the version 1.5 package or previous > version. > > Philip > > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > www.mimesweeper.com > ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 17 02:25:07 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:25:07 -0700 Subject: Language Bindings [was Re: [sword-devel] DLL] References: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6FCC@HANSEN-NT1> Message-ID: <399B4D03.5CD27866@crosswire.org> > I hate to appear pushy, but has this been done yet? If not, can someone > supply instructions on how to do this and I might give it a go myself. My apologies for not following through on this. I would love for someone intending to use this DLL to take over the maintenance of the DLL. Actually this work will benefit all of those wishing to have other language bindings to the SWORD API. Anyone interested in this? Please volunteer. It's not much coding work to make this happen, but some imagination may be required :) There is a project file (that probably won't work with the newer versions of any of the compilers) in sword/apps/windoze/bcowl25/swordapi that was used to create the old DLL. Actually, I just looked at the code and it is pretty lame. In actuality, to do it correctly, there should be at least 2 files written: swmgrc.cpp swmodulec.cpp these should be handle-based, extern "C" declared functions of all the members of class SWMgr and SWModule. The handle should be an (unsigned long) cast of the address of the object. eg. typedef unsigned long SWOBJECT; SWOBJECT swmgr_new() { return (SWOBJECT) new SWMgr(); } void swmgr_delete(SWOBJECT mgr) { delete (SWMgr *) mgr; } You may have to get a little creative with some functionality achieved by STL: void swmgr_getmodlist(SWOBJECT mgr, char **toArray) { ... } SWOBJECT swmgr_findmod(SWOBJECT mgr, const char *modname) { ... } Any volunteers? Thoughts? -Troy. > > In Christ, > > Chris Marsh > > Analyst Programmer > Hansen Corporation > Ph: (03) 9843 8438 > Fax: (03) 9843 8590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: scribe@crosswire.org [mailto:scribe@crosswire.org] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2000 10:43 > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] DLL > > I will build a new DLL when I get back in town. The code for the DLL > has not been updated for quite some time. There is a difference with > other language bindings to C++. They need to be standard C procedural > methods. You actually could do C++ to Delphi provided no multiple > inheritance (which we do), but other languages need a standard sig on > the methods in the DLL (no C++ manglings). Anyway, until I get it done, > you should be able to play with a really old version on the site at: > ftp://ftp.crosswire.org/pub/sword/attic/dlls.tar.gz > > I think it's dated '97, so beware. Though, this is probably good, since > the delphi code hasn't been changed since then either :) > > Hope this helps. I actually need to do this anyway, since we seem to > have requests for a number of other language bindings. > > -Troy. > > Chris Marsh wrote: > > > > What we need here is someone with c++ experience (not me, yet) to create > > these DLL's for us plebs used to visual tools like Delphi & VB. I don't > > even have a c++ compiler to use and certainly don't know how to create a > DLL > > even if I had a compiler. > > > > Any volunteers? > > > > Chris Marsh > > > > Analyst Programmer > > Hansen Corporation > > Ph: (03) 9843 8438 > > Fax: (03) 9843 8590 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Philip Kapusta [mailto:info@pc-shareware.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2000 8:44 > > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > > Subject: [sword-devel] DLL > > > > > But you can use DLLs generated by C++-Builder or whatever in Delphi! > > > > True, that is IF a DLL existed in the distribution ZIP. > > > > > Isn't there an DLL shipped with the SWORD windows frontend? > > > > No. I found not a single .DLL file in the version 1.5 package or previous > > version. > > > > Philip > > > > ********************************************************************** > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > > the system manager. > > > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > > > www.mimesweeper.com > > ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 17 13:59:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Aaron Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:59:17 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] remove References: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6FCC@HANSEN-NT1> <399B4D03.5CD27866@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <000b01c00853$56edb2a0$8fa2fea9@isaiah> Please remove me thanks From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 17 23:13:46 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joe Walker) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:13:46 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? References: <3999B075.8630B2ED@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <399C71AA.1C5FE6B8@eireneh.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B1906975EECC0E99489BA1F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > Please. Many people have asked for a Java interface to our API and > modules. The vss format is quite simple really. Rather than descibe > it, I'd rather point you in the direction of > sword/src/modules/common/rawverse.cpp This file contains the low level > routines to operate on the .vss file, but basically it's a 6 byte > record: struct { unsigned long offset, unsigned short size } I've attached an initial stab. > I've been following the premise of porting class for class from C++ to > Java so that someone familiar with the API could use either language > with a minimum learning curve. Any comments on this? There are 2 versions - RawVerse follows your approach, and SwordBible re-does the i/f My 2c? >From my point of view, closeness to the sword API won't help me much because I don't know a huge amount about Sword. But I would be helped from a clean i/f which I would not get from a close port. A good example is findoffset() which has 2 return params - not possible in Java. You'll see I chose to create a quick Location inner class to get around the problem, but it does make life messy. The alternative in SwordBible just has a getText() method which is far cleaner. But I'm biased because I don't know Sword internals very well. (However I guess I'm learning fairly rapidly) So the concensus may be different. The reading works. The writing has not been tested, and will fail due to endian problems. There was a few bits of code to quietly tidy up if something went wrong that i missed out in both versions because normally I want to know sooner rather than later if it is broken. This is fine for testing but the approach for 'live' may be different. Open to your thoughts. Joe. --------------B1906975EECC0E99489BA1F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="RawVerse.java" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RawVerse.java" package com.eireneh.bible.book.sword; import java.io.*; /** * Code for class 'RawVerse'- a module that reads raw text files * ot and nt using indexs ??.bks ??.cps ??.vss and provides lookup and parsing * functions based on class VerseKey */ public class RawVerse { /** constant for the introduction */ public static final int TESTAMENT_INTRO = 0; /** constant for the old testament */ public static final int TESTAMENT_OLD = 1; /** constant for the new testament */ public static final int TESTAMENT_NEW = 2; /** * RawVerse Constructor - Initializes data for instance of RawVerse * @param path - path of the directory where data and index files are located. * be sure to include the trailing separator (e.g. '/' or '\') * (e.g. 'modules/texts/rawtext/webster/') */ public RawVerse(String path) throws FileNotFoundException { idx_raf[TESTAMENT_OLD] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "ot.vss", "r"); idx_raf[TESTAMENT_NEW] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "nt.vss", "r"); txt_raf[TESTAMENT_OLD] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "ot", "r"); txt_raf[TESTAMENT_NEW] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "nt", "r"); // The original had a dtor that did the equiv of .close()ing the above // I'm not sure that there is a delete type ability in Book.java and // the finalizer for RandomAccessFile will do it anyway so for the // moment I'm going to ignore this. // The original also stored the path, but I don't think it ever used it // The original also kept an instance count, which went unused (and I // noticed in a few other places so it is either c&p or a pattern? // Either way the assumption that there is only one of a static is not // safe in many java environments (servlets, ejbs at least) so I've // deleted it } /** * Finds the offset of the key verse from the indexes * @param testament testament to find (0 - Bible/module introduction) * @param idxoff offset into .vss * @param start address to store the starting offset * @param size address to store the size of the entry */ public Location findOffset(int testament, long idxoff) throws IOException { Location loc = new Location(); // There was a bodge here to move testament around if someone wanted // to read the intro? We just have the set of static finals above // if (testament == 0) // testament = idx_raf[1] == null ? 1 : 2; // There was a test here to check ensure that is idx_raf[testament-1] // was null then we returned an default Location (of 0,0). However // This seems like papering over any errors so I have left it out for // the time being // I've now totally re-written this because we did have byte-sex // problems. The file is little endian, and we read big endianly. // read the next 6 byes. idx_raf[testament].seek(idxoff*6); byte[] read = new byte[6]; idx_raf[testament].readFully(read); int[] temp = new int[6]; for (int i=0; i= 0 ? read[i] : 256 + read[i]; System.out.println("temp["+i+"]="+temp[i]); } loc.start = (temp[3] << 24) | (temp[2] << 16) | (temp[1] << 8) | temp[0]; loc.size = (temp[5] << 8) | temp[4]; // the original lseek used SEEK_SET. This is the only option in Java // The *6 is because we use 4 bytes for the offset, and 2 for the length // There used to be some code at the start of the method like: // idxoff *= 6; // But itn't good to alter parameters and here is the only place that // it is used. // There was some BIGENDIAN swapping stuff here. To be honest I // can't be bothered to think about whether or not this is needed // right now. // *start = lelong(*start); // *size = leshort(*size); // There was also some code here to patch over any errors if you // could only read one of the 2 bytes from above. I'm not sure that // that is a good idea, so I've left it out. return loc; } /** * Gets text at a given offset. * @param testament testament file to search in (0 - Old; 1 - New) * @param loc Where to read from */ public String getText(int testament, Location loc) throws IOException { // The original had the size param as an unsigned short. // It also used SEEK_SET as above (default in Java) byte[] buffer = new byte[loc.size]; txt_raf[testament].seek(loc.start); txt_raf[testament].read(buffer); // We should probably think about encodings here? return new String(buffer); } /** * Prepares the text before returning it to external objects * @param buf buffer where text is stored and where to store the prep'd text */ protected String prepText(String text) { StringBuffer buf = new StringBuffer(text); boolean space = false; boolean cr = false; boolean realdata = false; char nlcnt = 0; int to = 0; for (int from=0; from 1) { // buf.setCharAt(to++, nl); buf.setCharAt(to++, '\n'); // nlcnt = 0; } continue; case 13: if (!realdata) continue; buf.setCharAt(to++, '\n'); space = false; cr = true; continue; } realdata = true; nlcnt = 0; if (space) { space = false; if (buf.charAt(from) != ' ') { buf.setCharAt(to++, ' '); from--; continue; } } buf.setCharAt(to++, buf.charAt(from)); } // This next line just ensured that we were null terminated. // buf.setCharAt(to, '\0'); // There followed a lot of code that stomed \o to the end of the // string if there was whitespace there. trim() is easier. return buf.toString().trim(); } /** * Sets text for current offset * @param testament testament to find (0 - Bible/module introduction) * @param idxoff offset into .vss * @param buf buffer to store */ protected void setText(int testament, long idxoff, String buf) throws IOException { // As in getText() we don't alter the formal parameter // idxoff *= 6; // As in getText() There was some messing around with testament // if (testament == 0) // testament = idx_raf[1] == null ? 1 : 2; // outsize started off being unsigned // and it looks like "unsigned short size;" is not used short outsize = (short) buf.length(); // There was some more BIGENDIAN nonsense here. Again ignoring the // MACOSX bits it looked like: // start = lelong(start); // outsize = leshort(size); // I've also moved things around very slightly, the endian bits came // just before the writeShort(); idx_raf[testament].seek(idxoff*6); long start = idx_raf[testament].readLong(); idx_raf[testament].writeShort(outsize); // There is some encoding stuff to be thought about here byte[] data = buf.getBytes(); txt_raf[testament].seek(start); txt_raf[testament].write(data); } /** * Creates new module files * @param path Directory to store module files */ public static void createModule(String path) throws IOException { truncate(path + "ot.vss"); truncate(path + "nt.vss"); truncate(path + "ot"); truncate(path + "nt"); // I'm not at all sure what these did. I'd guess they wrote data to // the files we just created? But how they'd neatly (or otherwise) go // about this is beyond me right now. // RawVerse rv(path); // VerseKey mykey("Rev 22:21"); } /** * Create an empty file, deleting what was there */ private static void truncate(String filename) throws IOException { // The original code did something like this. I recon this basically // deleted and recreated (empty) the named file. // unlink(buf); // fd = FileMgr::systemFileMgr.open(buf, O_CREAT|O_WRONLY|O_BINARY, S_IREAD|S_IWRITE); // FileMgr::systemFileMgr.close(fd); File file = new File(filename); file.delete(); file.createNewFile(); } /** * There has to be a better method than this. findoffset() returned a start * and and offset, and multiple return values are not possible in Java. * It seems to me that returning start and size from a public i/f represents * showing our callers more than we should and I expect that the solution * lies in a thorough sorting out if the interface, but I want to keep * the methods unchanged as reasonable right now. */ public class Location { /** Where does the data start */ public long start = 0; /** The data length. Is short long enough? the original was unsigned short */ public int size = 0; /** * Debug only */ public String toString() { return "start="+start+", size="+size; } } /** * A test program */ public static void main(String[] args) { try { // To start with I'm going to hard code the path String path = "/usr/apps/sword/modules/texts/rawtext/kjv/"; RawVerse verse = new RawVerse(path); Location loc = verse.findOffset(RawVerse.TESTAMENT_NEW, 6); String pre = verse.getText(RawVerse.TESTAMENT_NEW, loc); System.out.println("loc="+loc); System.out.println("pre="+pre); System.out.println("post="+verse.prepText(pre)); } catch (Exception ex) { ex.printStackTrace(); } } /** The array of index files */ private RandomAccessFile[] idx_raf = new RandomAccessFile[3]; /** The array of data files */ private RandomAccessFile[] txt_raf = new RandomAccessFile[3]; } --------------B1906975EECC0E99489BA1F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="SwordBible.java" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SwordBible.java" package com.eireneh.bible.book.sword; import java.io.*; /** * */ public class SwordBible { /** constant for the introduction */ public static final int TESTAMENT_INTRO = 0; /** constant for the old testament */ public static final int TESTAMENT_OLD = 1; /** constant for the new testament */ public static final int TESTAMENT_NEW = 2; /** * Open the sword data files. * @param path - path of the directory where data and index files are located. */ public SwordBible(String path) throws FileNotFoundException { idx_raf[TESTAMENT_OLD] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "ot.vss", "r"); idx_raf[TESTAMENT_NEW] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "nt.vss", "r"); txt_raf[TESTAMENT_OLD] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "ot", "r"); txt_raf[TESTAMENT_NEW] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "nt", "r"); } /** * Finds the offset of the key verse from the indexes * @param testament testament to find (0 - Bible/module introduction) * @param idxoff offset into .vss * @param start address to store the starting offset * @param size address to store the size of the entry */ public String getText(int testament, long idxoff) throws IOException { long start; int size; // Read the next 6 byes. idx_raf[testament].seek(idxoff*6); byte[] read = new byte[6]; idx_raf[testament].readFully(read); // Un-2s-complement them int[] temp = new int[6]; for (int i=0; i= 0 ? read[i] : 256 + read[i]; } // The data is little endian - extract the start and size start = (temp[3] << 24) | (temp[2] << 16) | (temp[1] << 8) | temp[0]; size = (temp[5] << 8) | temp[4]; // Read from the data file. // I wonder if it would be safe to do a readLine() from here. // Probably be safer not to risk it since we know how long it is. byte[] buffer = new byte[size]; txt_raf[testament].seek(start); txt_raf[testament].read(buffer); // We should probably think about encodings here? return new String(buffer); } /** The array of index files */ private RandomAccessFile[] idx_raf = new RandomAccessFile[3]; /** The array of data files */ private RandomAccessFile[] txt_raf = new RandomAccessFile[3]; /** * Quick test program */ public static void main(String[] args) { try { // To start with I'm going to hard code the path String path = "/usr/apps/sword/modules/texts/rawtext/kjv/"; SwordBible data = new SwordBible(path); String text = data.getText(SwordBible.TESTAMENT_NEW, 6); System.out.println("text="+text); } catch (Exception ex) { ex.printStackTrace(); } } } --------------B1906975EECC0E99489BA1F1-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 18 02:14:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:14:31 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> Message-ID: <399C9C07.F8A9712A@crosswire.org> > Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than normal > search before. Joachim and others, Did you get the framework searching to work? You can see it by building cheatah and running a search for "God love world" in your module that you ran mkfastmod on. Cheatah's default search works with the framework. Then click the "Case Sensitive" checkbox and the framework will NOT be used. You can compare this way. If the latter search is quicker, your module is not setup correctly for the search framework (please check permissions of the files, this was the last bug I fixed in the index generator). The old search does a strstr or stristr (my homebrewed algorithm that is not so fast) for case-insensitive searches. On my box, cheatah will do this search on BBE the old way in (after first occurance) about 1 second. Using the framework the delay is only about 1/10th of a second (after the first occurance). -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 18 02:22:18 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:22:18 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> Message-ID: <399C9DDA.EA62B14B@crosswire.org> > Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than normal > search before. OK!!!!! I just tried what you said with commonly used words, like: is This takes longer with the framework. Something is strange. My suspision is that it is with an STL call that I'm using. Here's a good test: Search for: God Result: takes a long time with the framework Search for: God love world Result: fast with the framework This is very strange as the latter search really makes 3 calls to the framework, one for 'God', one for 'love', and one for 'world'. It should take much longer if the framework is slow, and should always take much longer than the first. My suspicion is that it much be in prepping the results for return as the first has a much larger result set than the second. I'll look into it. Sorry for not getting this right yet. -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 18 03:33:18 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:33:18 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> <399C9DDA.EA62B14B@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <399CAE7E.E0DFDF34@crosswire.org> One more time, Sorry for all the traffic. I've done some preliminary profiling on the 1.5.x thread. Found some ugly things that were going on with the locale functionality and added a cache. I've removed the top 2 timehogs from the prof report and found that things are a little more of what I had expected from the search mechanism. Still not as fast as I would like with searches that return large datasets, but it is much better. These changes should speed up things throughout the library. They may also break things thoughout the library :) So please let me know if you notice any strange behaviour-- especially with locale features. -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 00:33:57 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:33:57 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support In-Reply-To: <399C9C07.F8A9712A@crosswire.org> References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> <399C9C07.F8A9712A@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00081817562600.08032@joachim> Hi! > > Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than > > normal search before. > > Joachim and others, > Did you get the framework searching to work? You can see it by > building cheatah and running a search for "God love world" in your > module that you ran mkfastmod on. Cheatah's default search works with > the framework. Then click the "Case Sensitive" checkbox and the > framework will NOT be used. You can compare this way. If the latter > search is quicker, your module is not setup correctly for the search > framework (please check permissions of the files, this was the last bug > I fixed in the index generator). The old search does a strstr or > stristr (my homebrewed algorithm that is not so fast) for > case-insensitive searches. > > > On my box, cheatah will do this search on BBE the old way in (after > first occurance) about 1 second. Using the framework the delay is only > about 1/10th of a second (after the first occurance). 1 second without indexing? What do you have for a expensive PC ? ;-) My PC (AMD K6-2 400@300, 128MB Ram) needs some seonds! BibleTime does now work with the indexing mechanism, it's not so fast as cheatah but much more fast than before. Often used take very lomg. BTW, Sword does behace strange now i you search the GerBen module for "God love world", it shows some thousand 1. Mose 0:1 and some Revelation entries (over 10000 found entries). > -Troy. --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 01:00:55 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 01:00:55 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Idea for searching Message-ID: <00081901005500.25588@joachim> Hi Troy! Is it somehow possible to introduce a mechanism to set the current percent of searched entried? This would be useful for frentends like BibleTime to show the user how much was already searched. Ideas? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 03:54:32 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:54:32 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Idea for searching References: <00081901005500.25588@joachim> Message-ID: <399E04F8.C03631E@crosswire.org> > Is it somehow possible to introduce a mechanism to set the current percent of > searched entried? This would be useful for frentends like BibleTime to show > the user how much was already searched. Ok, try it out. It's in CVS. See sword/examples/cmdline/search.cpp for an example of how to use. -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 09:25:38 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 02:25:38 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> <399C9C07.F8A9712A@crosswire.org> <00081817562600.08032@joachim> Message-ID: <399E5292.B969F951@crosswire.org> > 1 second without indexing? What do you have for a expensive PC ? ;-) > My PC (AMD K6-2 400@300, 128MB Ram) needs some seonds! :) I was on my box at the office. It is kindof a beefy machine. I think it's a 600 with 512megs of memory running a 2.2.16 i686 kernel. > BibleTime does now work with the indexing mechanism, it's not so fast as > cheatah but much more fast than before. I wonder why cheatah would be faster. Are you sure that you are using indexing? The search for "God love world" should be instantanious. > Often used take very lomg. Large result sets? > BTW, Sword does behace strange now i you search the GerBen module for "God > love world", it shows some thousand 1. Mose 0:1 and some Revelation entries > (over 10000 found entries). Did you index this module? Or is it running the traditional search? -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 23:21:02 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:21:02 EDT Subject: [sword-devel] To-Do: RFC Message-ID: I was browsing the To-Do list on the SWORD web site and ran accross this one: -Research free Rich Text Format (RTF) controls for X/Window, WIN16, and MAC/OS Could someone explain to me what is being looked for? I am not a programmer (yet) but am good with computers, so just consider that when you respond. Thanks. -John BJW7TOAEM@aol.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 20 12:53:04 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:53:04 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support In-Reply-To: <399E5292.B969F951@crosswire.org> References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <00081817562600.08032@joachim> <399E5292.B969F951@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082012530401.22368@joachim> Hi Troy! > > 1 second without indexing? What do you have for a expensive PC ? ;-) > > My PC (AMD K6-2 400@300, 128MB Ram) needs some seonds! > > > :) I was on my box at the office. It is kindof a beefy machine. I > > think it's a 600 with 512megs of memory running a 2.2.16 i686 kernel. Nice thing. > > BibleTime does now work with the indexing mechanism, it's not so fast as > > cheatah but much more fast than before. > I wonder why cheatah would be faster. Are you sure that you are using > indexing? The search for "God love world" should be instantanious. I'm using indexing. IMHO the slower speed is related to our object tree model. We create a a list of found items. Each found key has an own object. Creating it takes some time. I's a thing we should improve. > > Often used take very lomg. > > Large result sets? Yes. > > BTW, Sword does behace strange now i you search the GerBen module for > > "God love world", it shows some thousand 1. Mose 0:1 and some Revelation > > entries (over 10000 found entries). > > Did you index this module? Or is it running the traditional search? If I use "Case sensitive" search it works correctly, but If I use "non-case-sensitive" search so the index-stuff is enabled it doesn't work. You can test it in cheatah. BTW, the GerBen module does only have a New testament, the old is empty. Maybe this is causing the problem? > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 21 19:41:30 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Martin Gruner) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:41:30 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] problem report Message-ID: <00082121402900.32066@marten> Hi Troy, I seem to run into a problem while I am trying to use your interface for search progress displaying. You provided a callback function. I implemented it like this: unsigned int cms_currentProgress = 0; void percentUpdate(char percent, void *p){ cms_currentProgress = (unsigned int) percent; ... } Now th eproblem is, that cms_currentProgress will have values higher than 100 (max. 127) and lower than zero (min -127). Is this my fault (I am not a good programmer, so I might have done some stupid mistake)? Please give me some advice. Thank you for all your efforts for the kingdom of God. Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 02:12:27 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:12:27 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] problem report References: <00082121402900.32066@marten> Message-ID: <39A1E18B.6A742011@crosswire.org> No, this is not your problem. If it returns anything outside of 0-100, it is my bug. Could you try to reproduce the problem with sword/examples/cmdline/search.cpp. Maybe just add cout << (unsigned int) percent in the update function and show me the case where it is outside of the valid range. I will look into why this happens. There were some early problems that might have caused this, but if you have updated within the last few days, they should be fixed. Thanks for being my beta tester :) -Troy. PS. I added the void *userData parameter for you, thinking it would help with multiple threads, you could pass the thread handle, or maybe the actual pointer to the meter control that you want to set for this thread, or something else useful. Anyway, let me know if there is anything I could do to make your life easier. > I seem to run into a problem while I am trying to use your interface for > search progress displaying. You provided a callback function. > I implemented it like this: > > unsigned int cms_currentProgress = 0; > > void percentUpdate(char percent, void *p){ > cms_currentProgress = (unsigned int) percent; > ... > } > > Now th eproblem is, that cms_currentProgress will have values higher than 100 > (max. 127) and lower than zero (min -127). Is this my fault (I am not a good > programmer, so I might have done some stupid mistake)? > > Please give me some advice. > > Thank you for all your efforts for the kingdom of God. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 02:24:30 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Geoffrey Hastings) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: No subject Message-ID: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> I got this off the TOLBSS discussion board. I thought it was interesting. Article: By the way, I'm not suggesting this software is any better...I'm just saying it's a way to get the NIV (which isn't my favorite translation or anything) without paying the OLB $30 royalty (or whatever it is now) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Replying to Original Article: Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come with a CD... On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the software containing the entire NIV with all the footnotes. If you register the software at: http://www.zondervaninteractive.com/info.htm You get the Zondervan Inspirational Readings add-on module free. Also on all of those CD's, you get the Merriam Webster Reference Library, which gives you the Merriam Webster Dictionary, Thesaurus, and American Concise Encyclopedia. Just thought I'd let you all know God bless, Michael From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 02:29:58 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Geoffrey Hastings) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] NKJV Message-ID: <391038818.966911398527.JavaMail.root@web649-wra> I also gleaned this out of another post on TOLBSS discussion board. I am assuming the help file spoken of is on the OLB CD. I am wondering if this means they just paid a one time only royalty fee. The message below is from the questions section of the help file: You are free to loan your CD to your friends to copy the material onto their hard drive. Please do not copy the NKJV as we prepaid the royalty for it. Geoff Hastings GeoffreyHastings@juno.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 09:16:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Martin Gruner) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:16:47 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] problem report In-Reply-To: <39A1E18B.6A742011@crosswire.org> References: <00082121402900.32066@marten> <39A1E18B.6A742011@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082211164701.00206@marten> Hi Troy, thanks for your response. Sorry to say, but I can't reproduce the error with search.cpp - it works fine there. But I created some debugging output with bibletime. I perform a multiword case insensitive search in the GerLut module with search prase "amen". The callback functin looks like: staic char old_p; void percentUpdate(char percent, void *p){ if (percent != old_p){ old_p = percent; debug(QString("%1 o/o").arg( (int) percent ) ); (...) } } Debugging output (the percentage values): 2 o/o 5 o/o 6 o/o 7 o/o 8 o/o 9 o/o 10 o/o 11 o/o 12 o/o 13 o/o 14 o/o 15 o/o 16 o/o 17 o/o 18 o/o 19 o/o 20 o/o 21 o/o 22 o/o 23 o/o 24 o/o 25 o/o 26 o/o 27 o/o 28 o/o 29 o/o 30 o/o 31 o/o 32 o/o 33 o/o 34 o/o 35 o/o 36 o/o 37 o/o 38 o/o 39 o/o 40 o/o 41 o/o 42 o/o 43 o/o 44 o/o 45 o/o 46 o/o 47 o/o 48 o/o 49 o/o 50 o/o 51 o/o 52 o/o 53 o/o 54 o/o 55 o/o 56 o/o 57 o/o 58 o/o 59 o/o 60 o/o 61 o/o 62 o/o 63 o/o 64 o/o 65 o/o 66 o/o 67 o/o 68 o/o 69 o/o 70 o/o 71 o/o 72 o/o 73 o/o 74 o/o 75 o/o 76 o/o 77 o/o 78 o/o 79 o/o 80 o/o 81 o/o 82 o/o 83 o/o 84 o/o 85 o/o 86 o/o 87 o/o 88 o/o 89 o/o 90 o/o 91 o/o 92 o/o 93 o/o 94 o/o 95 o/o 96 o/o 97 o/o 98 o/o 99 o/o 100 o/o 101 o/o 102 o/o 103 o/o 104 o/o 105 o/o 106 o/o 107 o/o 108 o/o 109 o/o 110 o/o 111 o/o 112 o/o 113 o/o 114 o/o 115 o/o 116 o/o 117 o/o 118 o/o 119 o/o 120 o/o 121 o/o 122 o/o 123 o/o 124 o/o 125 o/o 126 o/o 127 o/o -128 o/o -127 o/o -126 o/o -125 o/o -124 o/o -123 o/o -122 o/o -121 o/o -120 o/o -119 o/o -118 o/o -117 o/o -116 o/o -115 o/o -114 o/o -113 o/o -112 o/o -111 o/o -110 o/o -109 o/o -108 o/o -107 o/o -106 o/o -105 o/o -104 o/o -103 o/o -102 o/o -101 o/o -100 o/o -99 o/o -98 o/o -97 o/o 45 o/o 46 o/o 47 o/o 48 o/o 49 o/o 50 o/o 51 o/o 52 o/o 53 o/o 54 o/o 55 o/o 56 o/o 57 o/o 58 o/o 59 o/o 60 o/o 61 o/o 62 o/o 63 o/o 64 o/o 65 o/o 66 o/o 67 o/o 68 o/o 69 o/o 70 o/o 71 o/o 72 o/o 73 o/o 74 o/o 75 o/o 76 o/o 77 o/o 78 o/o 79 o/o 80 o/o 81 o/o 82 o/o 83 o/o 84 o/o 85 o/o 86 o/o 87 o/o 88 o/o 89 o/o 90 o/o 91 o/o 92 o/o 93 o/o 94 o/o 95 o/o 96 o/o 97 o/o 98 o/o 100 o/o ???????????????? Am Die, 22 Aug 2000 schrieb Troy A. Griffitts: > No, this is not your problem. If it returns anything outside of 0-100, > it is my bug. Could you try to reproduce the problem with > sword/examples/cmdline/search.cpp. Maybe just add cout << (unsigned > int) percent in the update function and show me the case where it is > outside of the valid range. I will look into why this happens. There > were some early problems that might have caused this, but if you have > updated within the last few days, they should be fixed. Thanks for > being my beta tester :) > > -Troy. > > PS. I added the void *userData parameter for you, thinking it would > help with multiple threads, you could pass the thread handle, or maybe > the actual pointer to the meter control that you want to set for this > thread, or something else useful. Anyway, let me know if there is > anything I could do to make your life easier. > > > I seem to run into a problem while I am trying to use your interface for > > search progress displaying. You provided a callback function. > > I implemented it like this: > > > > unsigned int cms_currentProgress = 0; > > > > void percentUpdate(char percent, void *p){ > > cms_currentProgress = (unsigned int) percent; > > ... > > } > > > > Now th eproblem is, that cms_currentProgress will have values higher than > > 100 (max. 127) and lower than zero (min -127). Is this my fault (I am not > > a good programmer, so I might have done some stupid mistake)? > > > > Please give me some advice. > > > > Thank you for all your efforts for the kingdom of God. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 09:33:51 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Fausto Saporito) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:33:51 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] hebrew font Message-ID: <002c01c00c1c$1519e4d0$3015a8c0@fausto> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C00C2C.D8594FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I just downloaded the win32 package of sword, and i'm currently using = the linux version. But I have a problem with both version: how can I display hebrew fonts? The greek fonts works very well under windows, but the hebrew doesnt' = work. Which font I need? I have webhebrew true type font, but doesn't work. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C00C2C.D8594FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
 
I just downloaded the win32 package of = sword, and=20 i'm currently using the linux version.
But I have a problem with both version: = how can I=20 display hebrew fonts?
The greek fonts works very well under = windows, but=20 the hebrew doesnt' work.
 
Which font I need?
 
I have webhebrew true type font, but = doesn't=20 work.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C00C2C.D8594FC0-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 23:03:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:03:47 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: In-Reply-To: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000822154409.00a4d170@mail.dancris.com> I bought a box, and it does have the NIV software in with the Merriam Webster Reference Set. It looks good. Some things remind me of the Sword--Bookmarks and Custom Range. The search window is nice. Jerry At 10:24 PM 8/21/2000 -0400, Geoffrey Hastings wrote: >Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come >with a CD... > >On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or >Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) > >But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV >Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the >software containing the >entire NIV with all the footnotes. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 23 14:09:09 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Darren DeMeulenaere) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:09:09 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: References: <4.2.0.58.20000822154409.00a4d170@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <39A3DB05.AC2F8258@ally.com> Me too. It looks nice. On top of that I got Amazon 3D installed. Whipee. Jerry Hastings wrote: > I bought a box, and it does have the NIV software in with the Merriam > Webster Reference Set. It looks good. Some things remind me of the > Sword--Bookmarks and Custom Range. The search window is nice. > > Jerry > > At 10:24 PM 8/21/2000 -0400, Geoffrey Hastings wrote: > > >Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come > >with a CD... > > > >On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or > >Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) > > > >But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV > >Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the > >software containing the > >entire NIV with all the footnotes. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 24 01:53:11 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Frances) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:53:11 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000823185123.00aad830@pop3.ispchannel.com> auth 4f9099c3 subscribe sword-devel greatoma@ispchannel.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 24 18:11:10 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Hastings, Geoffrey W) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:11:10 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Bug: Message-ID: <4178FC20DA0DD11185DB00805FBE417303C8E04D@xch-aub-08.ca.boeing.com> If you right click on the first word in a verse to look it up in the dictionary; the verse number is added in front of the word preventing the dictionary from finding it. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 24 23:59:52 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:59:52 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fun stuff Message-ID: <39A5B6F8.BB6F18CB@crosswire.org> Hey, Got my matrox G400 at work to display X dual-head at 1280x1024 each monitor (32bit color) :) Brought VMWare up and tweaked with the WIN98 registry a bit. Though I couldn't get it running much higher than 2364x1012, check out the real-estate on this screen shot. (some of you may have to scroll) :) http://www.crosswire.org/troy/sshot.jpg -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 25 02:32:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] next release of curses port Message-ID: <200008250232.WAA01350@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Hi, I just wanted to say that I am putting out my latest revision of the curses frontend for sword (irenaeus) on sourceforge.net. The main change that I have made is that the front end now acts like it has several 'virtual terminals' like the virtual consoles of linux. Switch between them with number keys. May seem like a strange interface, but once I get more things working, I think it will make some sense. Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 25 07:02:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael A Hamblin) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 02:02:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [sword-devel] fun stuff In-Reply-To: <39A5B6F8.BB6F18CB@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Now that's what I want my setup to look like! :) I was fighting video cards trying to get a combination that'd do that last week but all my PCI cards are too old and with tuition I didn't feel like buying a replacement just yet. Well good to know the Bible man does get a moment to goof off once in a while :) On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Got my matrox G400 at work to display X dual-head at 1280x1024 each > monitor (32bit color) :) > Brought VMWare up and tweaked with the WIN98 registry a bit. Though I > couldn't get it running much higher than 2364x1012, check out the > real-estate on this screen shot. (some of you may have to scroll) :) > > http://www.crosswire.org/troy/sshot.jpg -- Michael Hamblin http://www.utdallas.edu/~michaelh/ michaelh@utdallas.edu http://www.ductape.net/ UTD Linux User Group Technical and Communications Services "Why would I want any more?" -Stavesacre From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 26 22:01:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:01:48 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale Message-ID: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> Hi! BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr changes of the lookup string. For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, but Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD releases. Is this a problem witht the changes of the locale support you mentioned? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 26 23:51:08 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:51:08 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags Message-ID: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> Hi! I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. I tried to make some improvements, but failed. I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about the tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB module does contain these tags. But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it stripped away somewhere else? I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 00:14:06 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:14:06 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Vines Message-ID: <00082700140601.31412@joachim> Hi Troy! While browsing Crosswires FTP I notices that there are (were) 0-byte files called vine.zip and vines.zip in the modules directory. I moved them in my home directory. If you dislike removing the files please move them back from /home/jansorg. IMHO this is the reason for some user questions about damaged files. --Joachm From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 00:02:23 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:02:23 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> Message-ID: <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> Joachim, Tried a lookup with test/parsekey Ps de It returns: Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 Seems like it works correctly. Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? :) -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi! > > BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr changes of > the lookup string. > > For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, but > Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD releases. Is this a > problem witht the changes of the locale support you mentioned? > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 04:39:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jake) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:39:40 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] RE: NIV cd In-Reply-To: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> Message-ID: Hey, I bought the cereal with the cd, but I can't find the NIV software anywhere on the cd. Can you give me the location where it is? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org [mailto:owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Hastings Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 9:25 PM To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: I got this off the TOLBSS discussion board. I thought it was interesting. Article: By the way, I'm not suggesting this software is any better...I'm just saying it's a way to get the NIV (which isn't my favorite translation or anything) without paying the OLB $30 royalty (or whatever it is now) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Replying to Original Article: Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come with a CD... On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the software containing the entire NIV with all the footnotes. If you register the software at: http://www.zondervaninteractive.com/info.htm You get the Zondervan Inspirational Readings add-on module free. Also on all of those CD's, you get the Merriam Webster Reference Library, which gives you the Merriam Webster Dictionary, Thesaurus, and American Concise Encyclopedia. Just thought I'd let you all know God bless, Michael From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 14:43:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:43:16 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale In-Reply-To: <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082714431601.00317@joachim> Hi Troy! > Joachim, > Tried a lookup with > > test/parsekey Ps de > > It returns: > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > Seems like it works correctly. Yes. Looks like a bad problem of BibleTime 0.2x. It worked in earlier days. We use casts like this: Versekey *key = new VerseKey(); *key = "Psalms 1:1"; QString keystr = (const char*)*key; Maybe this is the problem? If I disable the locale support in BibleTime 0.2x it works! Using a locale it can't resolve all abbrevs (not even the english standard ones). --Joachim > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > :) You need a KDE2 prerelease (at least kdelibs) (I use CVSUP) and a Qt 2.2.0beta (I use the CVSUP module qt-copy). Have a look at www.kde.org how to get the KDE sources using CVSUP. It's the best the get all the sources using CVS or CVSUP, you know why ;-) But you can also use RPM packages or whatever. After installing KDE2 get the sources of BibleTime 1.0CVS and compile them the traditional way (./configure ; make; make install). I hope you like our new features we added afdter 0.2x! A huge difference ;-) Good luck! --Joachim > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 18:08:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:08:16 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] RE: NIV cd In-Reply-To: References: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000827110308.00a50d00@mail.dancris.com> At 11:39 PM 8/26/2000 -0500, Jake wrote: >Hey, > I bought the cereal with the cd, but I can't find the NIV software anywhere >on the cd. Can you give me the location where it is? Thanks. > On the main menu, where you choose what to install, click on the Merriam Webster Reference Library. There you will find an option to install the NIV. After installing, the Win Start button will have a Zondervan entry, which will have a shortcut to NIV. Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 19:29:06 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:29:06 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags In-Reply-To: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> References: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> Message-ID: <00082719290601.28524@joachim> I found out now that the index files of the modules are wrong. The book heading is displayed at te end of the last chapter of the book before the book with the book heading. Troy, how are the GBF .vss files generated? --Joachim > Hi! > > I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a > problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS > correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. > > I tried to make some improvements, but failed. > I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about > the tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB > module does contain these tags. > But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it > stripped away somewhere else? > > I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it > (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 19:36:27 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:36:27 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences Message-ID: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> Hi! IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like BibleTime. I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we should implement support for bible crossreferences. Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two important things: -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be formatted. At the moment every module uses it's one reference formats (GBF, RAW etc.). This is the most important issue. Otherwise we would have to add time wasting regexp mattching things etc. and every frontend has to implement it's own solutions. It's not good not to have a standard for crossreferences. -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as HTML (generated by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they should look like in PLAIN formatted text etc. In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): Reference to Genesis 1:1 Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, should we use it? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 11:40:20 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:40:20 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: References: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> Message-ID: <39AA4FA4.6E58882D@bigfoot.com> Geoffrey Hastings wrote: > > I got this off the TOLBSS discussion board. I thought it was interesting. > > Article: > By the way, I'm not suggesting this software is any better...I'm just saying > it's a way to get the NIV (which isn't my favorite translation or anything) > without paying > the OLB $30 royalty (or whatever it is now) > > --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- > > Replying to Original Article: > > Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come > with a CD... > > On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or > Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) > > But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV > Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the > software containing the > entire NIV with all the footnotes. > > If you register the software at: > > http://www.zondervaninteractive.com/info.htm > > You get the Zondervan Inspirational Readings add-on module free. > > Also on all of those CD's, you get the Merriam Webster Reference Library, > which gives you the Merriam Webster Dictionary, Thesaurus, and American > Concise > Encyclopedia. > ... Anyone want to throw one of these in the mail to Australia for me? No General Mills here... :-) Paul --------- "He must become greater; i must become less." - John 3:30 http://www.bigfoot.com/~paulgear From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 11:42:21 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:42:21 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences References: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> Message-ID: <39AA501D.31C54A24@bigfoot.com> Joachim Ansorg wrote: > ... > IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like BibleTime. > I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we should implement support > for bible crossreferences. > Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two important > things: > > -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be formatted. At the > moment every module uses it's one reference formats (GBF, RAW etc.). This is > the most important issue. Otherwise we would have to add time wasting regexp > mattching things etc. and every frontend has to implement it's own solutions. > It's not good not to have a standard for crossreferences. > > -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as HTML (generated > by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they should look like in PLAIN > formatted text etc. > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > > Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, should > we use it? Use ThML - it's all worked out for you. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. This is not a recording. :-) Paul --------- "He must become greater; i must become less." - John 3:30 http://www.bigfoot.com/~paulgear From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 15:00:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Kri=B9tof?= Petr) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:00:40 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module Message-ID: <39AA7E98.F460FC29@Kristof.CZ> Hello Troy and others. I just obtained new translation of Bible. Not exist in OLB or another format so I must make module from the scratch. Can you make public the exact step by step how to do it? What is the input format for some sword tools? I did make it to plain text, one verse per line, no headers or labels, but rawtxidx is unable to successfuly generate index files. What is the right way to make new module? Troy, you did never give qualified answer for this question if I remember correctly. Thanks Petr -- Nowhere to run. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 15:49:35 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:49:35 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences In-Reply-To: <39AA501D.31C54A24@bigfoot.com> References: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> <39AA501D.31C54A24@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <00082815493500.00271@joachim> Am Mon, 28 Aug 2000 schrieben Sie: > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > ... > > IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like > > BibleTime. I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we should > > implement support for bible crossreferences. > > Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two important > > things: > > > > -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be formatted. > > At the moment every module uses it's one reference formats (GBF, RAW > > etc.). This is the most important issue. Otherwise we would have to add > > time wasting regexp mattching things etc. and every frontend has to > > implement it's own solutions. It's not good not to have a standard for > > crossreferences. > > > > -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as HTML > > (generated by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they should > > look like in PLAIN formatted text etc. > > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): > > > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > > > > Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, > > should we use it? > > Use ThML - it's all worked out for you. > > Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. This > is not a recording. > > :-) Sure, ThML is possible. But we have a HTML widget in BibleTime, and somehow the filters like ThML2HTML have to work. And only a few modules are using ThML. Other solutions? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 19:21:22 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Martin Gruner) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:21:22 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue Message-ID: <00082821212200.00206@marten> Another feature request: At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key (bible reference). Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the location of every single word in the module. For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this word occures in the bible. Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) idea. Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 21:35:54 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:35:54 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags References: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> <00082719290601.28524@joachim> Message-ID: <39AADB3A.D77EAD09@crosswire.org> Joachim, I believe that there is a gbfidx.cpp file somewhere that will build indices for GBF texts. -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > I found out now that the index files of the modules are wrong. The book > heading is displayed at te end of the last chapter of the book before the > book with the book heading. > > Troy, how are the GBF .vss files generated? > > --Joachim > > > Hi! > > > > I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a > > problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS > > correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. > > > > I tried to make some improvements, but failed. > > I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about > > the tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB > > module does contain these tags. > > But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it > > stripped away somewhere else? > > > > I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it > > (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 21:44:26 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:44:26 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] American Bible Society - XML Initiative Message-ID: <39AADD3A.4E174B5B@crosswire.org> I just got off the phone with Mike Perez with ABS about a new initiative that they are planning with XML. They are researching different Bible markups and hope the develop a common standard that they can get pushed through W3C. I've told them the obvious, "Check out ThML and GBF", and that we would be willing to help them at every phase of develoment. They seem to be on their toes, already. They may have an engineer subscribe to our dev forum to hear all of your lovely input (please pray for his sanity) ;) Just wanted to pass on the exiting news! -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 01:15:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:15:16 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <00082821212200.00206@marten> Message-ID: <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> Martin, Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching mechanism. Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly appreciated. -Troy. Martin Gruner wrote: > > Another feature request: > > At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key > (bible reference). > Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about > searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would > involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the > location of every single word in the module. > For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in > the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... > If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this > word occures in the bible. > Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded > up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You > could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. > I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) > idea. > > Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 01:35:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:35:00 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences References: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> <39AA501D.31C54A24@bigfoot.com> <00082815493500.00271@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB1344.8EB4A33A@crosswire.org> You might not like this response at first, but spend a minute or two and think about it: I've left this up to the frontend to decide how Bible references are formatted. Think about this. We have many different markup implementations for texts. These are then run through a filter that knows about the markup language, and also knows about the frontend's desired markup. Thus we have GBFHTML, etc., filters. What's the difference between assuming the filter knows how the frontend wishes to display the module, and assuming the filter know how the frontend wishes the get reference marks? Ultimately, there is a design proposal in the API ref on the website that uses an intermediate markup language to which all texts would be converted, then from this common markup, we could render to the frontend. I believe this 2 phase conversion allows much more modular and reusable filters and will solve this very issue. The API will be responsible for the first phase (getting the module text from whatever format into the common markup), and the frontend writer will be responsible for a filter from this common markup to what he or she wants to render. This would also cut down on the number of filters exponentially, as there would be no need for a 'From every, to every' set: GBFHTML, GBFRTF, ThMLHTML, ThMLRTF, PlainHTML, PlainRTF, etc., etc. But instead: GBFCOMMON, ThMLCOMMON, PlainCOMMON, COMMONHTML, COMMONRTF. OptionsFilters could also be radically reduced. Instead of trying to provide GBFFootnotes, redletter, strongs, and everything else, for each format to each format, instead, the OptionsFilters would be written against the common markup and would work for everything. This will, of course, impose more overhead, but only for rendering, which, I don't believe, we are having any speed issues at the moment. Thoughts? -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Am Mon, 28 Aug 2000 schrieben Sie: > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > ... > > > IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like > > > BibleTime. I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we should > > > implement support for bible crossreferences. > > > Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two important > > > things: > > > > > > -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be formatted. > > > At the moment every module uses it's one reference formats (GBF, RAW > > > etc.). This is the most important issue. Otherwise we would have to add > > > time wasting regexp mattching things etc. and every frontend has to > > > implement it's own solutions. It's not good not to have a standard for > > > crossreferences. > > > > > > -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as HTML > > > (generated by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they should > > > look like in PLAIN formatted text etc. > > > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): > > > > > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > > > > > > Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, > > > should we use it? > > > > Use ThML - it's all worked out for you. > > > > Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. This > > is not a recording. > > > > :-) > > Sure, ThML is possible. But we have a HTML widget in BibleTime, and somehow > the filters like ThML2HTML have to work. > And only a few modules are using ThML. > Other solutions? > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 01:47:19 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Rob Barrett/Almaden/IBM) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:47:19 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences Message-ID: Joachim Ansorg wrote: > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > FWIW, just a quick opinion from a lurker on this list: If you are going to use URL-looking syntax, then it would probably be a good idea to try and stay close to the spec to avoid confusion. In which case, the format should be something like :/// Maybe it doesn't matter, but to use "ref" where the protocol belongs might be troublesome in the long-run. It's fine to create your own protocol like "sword" or something. But the protocol should refer to "how to get the information" not "what the information is". That allows you to later have multiple methods for retrieving the information later on, if you desire. Likewise the entry after the double-slash should be *where* to get the information. If it is the same place as the current document, then it can be omitted. Finally, I believe spaces are generally not permitted in the middle of URLs and may get in the way of using standard URL parsers and generators. BTW, the RFC that covers URLs is at: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/rfc/rfc1738.txt I mean this to be helpful and not just a random critique. I've just been bitten by things like this in the past. Thanks for all of the hard work and the hearts of service behind the work! Rob Barrett From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 02:43:21 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:43:21 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module References: <39AA7E98.F460FC29@Kristof.CZ> Message-ID: <39AB2349.4221D2A7@crosswire.org> Petr, Well, ultimately, all you need to do is produce a .vss file for each testament. Split the old and new testament data files up into 'ot' and 'nt'. The vss file consists of a series of 6 byte records: struct { long offset; short size }; The offset is the start of the entry in the data file, and the size is the length of the entry. There is one record for each canonical verse (see watchout below). To make your life (and hopefully others') easier, I've produced a new utility: sword/utilities/mod2vpl.cpp This tool will export a verse module one verse per line (vpl). I will work on writing a vpl2mod.cpp to import this same format. For now, you can run this utility on an existing module and > output to a file. Then do a wc on this file and your file and be sure that there are the exact same number of lines in both files. A watchout: SWORD facilitates Module, Book, Testament, and Chapter intros. Thus, you will need at least a blank line where these would occure. You will see this in the output for an existing module. Most modules do not use these. MHC is an example that does use these. To be safe, I would output a basic module like KJV. Hope this gets you started. I will try to finish the vpl2mod soon. -Troy. > > Hello Troy and others. > > I just obtained new translation of Bible. Not exist in OLB or another > format so I must make module from the scratch. > > Can you make public the exact step by step how to do it? > > What is the input format for some sword tools? > > I did make it to plain text, one verse per line, no headers or labels, > but rawtxidx > is unable to successfuly generate index files. > > What is the right way to make new module? > > Troy, you did never give qualified answer for this question > if I remember correctly. > > Thanks > > Petr > > -- > Nowhere to run. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 02:54:29 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:54:29 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags References: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> <00082719290601.28524@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB25E5.71CA2586@crosswire.org> Joachim, You might ask Chris, but the last GBF mod I produced was done with sword/src/modules/texts/rawgbf/gbfidx.cpp Hope this helps, -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > I found out now that the index files of the modules are wrong. The book > heading is displayed at te end of the last chapter of the book before the > book with the book heading. > > Troy, how are the GBF .vss files generated? > > --Joachim > > > Hi! > > > > I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a > > problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS > > correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. > > > > I tried to make some improvements, but failed. > > I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about > > the tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB > > module does contain these tags. > > But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it > > stripped away somewhere else? > > > > I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it > > (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:00:55 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:00:55 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> <00082714431601.00317@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB2767.1D74ACC8@crosswire.org> Joachim, I really tried hard to get KDE things to compile, but had no luck. I felt I would have better luck with the latest snapshot KDE2.0Beta2 (I think) that I found on the kde website. Maybe I should have listened to your advice and went with the latest CVS tree. The filenames were something like *1.93.tar.bz2 I got Qt from this directory to compile, and I even got KDELIBS to compile, but KDEBASE failed miserably, and Bibletime still failed on ./configure. Maybe I need to set environment args or something. I did a make install on KDELIBS and it looked like it went into /usr/lib/*, and my KDEDIR is set to /usr. I don't know. I'll keep trying if someone can help get me up and running, but I've been getting frustrated. Any chance someone could just produce a simple test program that shows the error? -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi Troy! > > > Joachim, > > Tried a lookup with > > > > test/parsekey Ps de > > > > It returns: > > > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > > > Seems like it works correctly. > > Yes. Looks like a bad problem of BibleTime 0.2x. It worked in earlier days. > We use casts like this: > > Versekey *key = new VerseKey(); > *key = "Psalms 1:1"; > QString keystr = (const char*)*key; > > Maybe this is the problem? > > If I disable the locale support in BibleTime 0.2x it works! Using a locale it > can't resolve all abbrevs (not even the english standard ones). > > --Joachim > > > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > > > :) > > You need a KDE2 prerelease (at least kdelibs) (I use CVSUP) and a Qt > 2.2.0beta (I use the CVSUP module qt-copy). Have a look at www.kde.org how to > get the KDE sources using CVSUP. It's the best the get all the sources using > CVS or CVSUP, you know why ;-) > But you can also use RPM packages or whatever. > > After installing KDE2 get the sources of BibleTime 1.0CVS and compile them > the traditional way (./configure ; make; make install). > > I hope you like our new features we added afdter 0.2x! A huge difference ;-) > > Good luck! > > --Joachim > > > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:04:35 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:04:35 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Vines References: <00082700140601.31412@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB2843.DAE4D0A5@crosswire.org> Joachim, I've been meaning to mark this module as locked. We've removed the data files so as not to let users download this module, but ultimately we should revisit why we have had no luck with our encipher utilities and lexicon modules. Thanks for moving the data files, we probably should fix this instead of letting our users ask about it all the time. Interestingly enough, from our weekly stats page (http://www.crosswire.org/stats.html), kjv and vines are the most common downloads (maybe because vines doesn't work and people keep redownloading it! :) ). -Troy. > > Hi Troy! > > While browsing Crosswires FTP I notices that there are (were) 0-byte files > called vine.zip and vines.zip in the modules directory. I moved them in my > home directory. > > If you dislike removing the files please move them back from /home/jansorg. > IMHO this is the reason for some user questions about damaged files. > --Joachm From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:06:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:06:17 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags References: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB28A9.1250E42A@crosswire.org> footnote tags in GBF modules are turned on and off with GBFFootnotes filter. You are probably seeing this behaviour when this OptionsFilter is turned off. -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi! > > I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a > problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS > correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. > > I tried to make some improvements, but failed. > I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about the > tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB module > does contain these tags. > But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it > stripped away somewhere else? > > I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it > (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:21:46 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:21:46 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] next release of curses port References: <200008250232.WAA01350@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <39AB2C4A.583251D@crosswire.org> Richard, I tried 0.13. Had a few troubles compiling, but it was my fault. I had systemwide headers for SWORD 1.4.x on my box, and no libs, so when I saw your -L../../../lib, I figured that you had your package somewhere like: sword/apps/console/irenaeus When I place the package here, it found the libs (the 1.5.x libs!) and everything compiled fine, but core dumped. ugh. I finally figured it out and changed your -I in Makefile.in to -I../../../include to match the -L I like the 1,2,3,4 thing. I think this will be really useful. Are you thinking of making each number a new 'desktop'? -Troy. raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > > Hi, I just wanted to say that I am putting out my latest revision > of the curses frontend for sword (irenaeus) on sourceforge.net. > > The main change that I have made is that the front end now acts > like it has several 'virtual terminals' like the virtual consoles of > linux. Switch between them with number keys. May seem like a strange > interface, but once I get more things working, I think it will make some > sense. > > Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 06:35:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:35:03 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Translation Message-ID: <000001c01183$43168070$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Good day Could anyone tell me what is involved with helping to translate the program, etc to Afrikaans? (Afrikaans is spoken is in South Africa, and mainly related to Dutch, but mixed with words from some other languages :) I also have the Afrikaans Bible available. I just don't know about the copyright on distribution. God bless you, nathan http://www.nathan.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 06:35:06 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:35:06 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue - fast searching framework index In-Reply-To: <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <000301c01183$4505a640$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Good day Troy, Martin & others (I only joined the list about 2 weeks ago, so I am still trying to find out who's who, who's doing what, what needs to be done, where is the code, etc etc) I am busy doing something like this for my website at the moment. Only at a website, the speed is of even more importance, as you have many users and many requests at the same time. I have developed some techniques for making it fast enough, and they also seem to work well with large resultsets. It makes provision for most search requirements, including wildcards (mesch*), AND, OR, NOT, range, and I am also looking at ranking (most "relevant" at the top -- if requested) Maybe we should talk on this? (I am still working on it, but I am finished with 80%+ of it, so I know it works) 1. In what format are the indexes that you are currently building? (I assume it is something like a list of pointers to verses) Are you also storing the number of times the word occurs in that verse? Are you working with ALL the words, or are you eliminating "stopwords"? (something I see some Bible programs are doing -- most annoying imho) 2. I have tried to look at where you are doing the new fast search in the Sword CVS, but time has not allowed me to explore this yet. Can you point me to where/what you are doing at the moment? (Or better, provide me with some quick high-level overview :-) 3. This bring up another point. Not all users know regex, etc. But they will want to do complex searches. Are you looking at making the search user interface more simple? E.g. why ask the users to tell you that you must user regex when they type "mesch*"? The * should tell you that automatically. Or am I making it sound too easy? God bless you, nathan http://www.nathan.co.za PS. Where can I get hold of a Sword CD? I am in South Africa, so I guess the normal outlets don't work. And the ISO image is too big to download. I tried it! -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts Sent: 29 August 2000 03:15 To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue Martin, Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching mechanism. Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly appreciated. -Troy. Martin Gruner wrote: > > Another feature request: > > At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key > (bible reference). > Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about > searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would > involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the > location of every single word in the module. > For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in > the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... > If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this > word occures in the bible. > Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded > up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You > could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. > I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) > idea. > > Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 07:15:13 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Tsoloane Moahloli) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:15:13 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue - fast searching frame In-Reply-To: <000301c01183$4505a640$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: Hi Nathan, I am operating from Johannesburg. I have the latest CVS stuff from SWORD and can write that off to CD for you if you want. Cheers, T On 29-Aug-2000 Nathan wrote: > Good day Troy, Martin & others > > (I only joined the list about 2 weeks ago, so I am still trying to > find out who's who, who's doing what, what needs to be done, where > is the code, etc etc) > > I am busy doing something like this for my website at the moment. > Only at a website, the speed is of even more importance, as you > have many users and many requests at the same time. > I have developed some techniques for making it fast enough, and > they also seem to work well with large resultsets. > It makes provision for most search requirements, including > wildcards (mesch*), AND, OR, NOT, range, and I am also looking at > ranking (most "relevant" at the top -- if requested) > Maybe we should talk on this? > (I am still working on it, but I am finished with 80%+ of it, so > I know it works) > > 1. In what format are the indexes that you are currently building? > (I assume it is something like a list of pointers to verses) > Are you also storing the number of times the word occurs in that > verse? > Are you working with ALL the words, or are you eliminating > "stopwords"? (something I see some Bible programs are doing -- > most annoying imho) > > 2. I have tried to look at where you are doing the new fast search > in the Sword CVS, but time has not allowed me to explore this yet. > Can you point me to where/what you are doing at the moment? > (Or better, provide me with some quick high-level overview :-) > > 3. This bring up another point. Not all users know regex, etc. > But they will want to do complex searches. Are you looking at > making the search user interface more simple? > E.g. why ask the users to tell you that you must user regex when > they type "mesch*"? The * should tell you that automatically. > Or am I making it sound too easy? > > God bless you, > nathan > http://www.nathan.co.za > > PS. Where can I get hold of a Sword CD? I am in South Africa, > so I guess the normal outlets don't work. And the ISO image is > too big to download. I tried it! > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org > On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts > Sent: 29 August 2000 03:15 > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue > > > Martin, > Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the > reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one > search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with > verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search > is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, > yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. > > Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to > find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the > verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the > key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through > the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For > extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the > entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching > mechanism. > > Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly > appreciated. > > -Troy. > > > > Martin Gruner wrote: >> >> Another feature request: >> >> At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a > key >> (bible reference). >> Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking > about >> searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would >> involve creating a file for every module that contains information about > the >> location of every single word in the module. >> For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in >> the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... >> If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this >> word occures in the bible. >> Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be > speeded >> up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. > You >> could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. >> I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another > (discussable) >> idea. >> >> Martin -- When was the last time you did something for the first time? Tsoloane Moahloli Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. phone +27 11 706 7054 email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 15:45:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:45:01 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale In-Reply-To: <39AB2767.1D74ACC8@crosswire.org> References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <00082714431601.00317@joachim> <39AB2767.1D74ACC8@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082915450102.00266@joachim> Troy, Things you have to install and compile: -Qt 2.2.0beta2 -kdelibs latest beta -BibleTime CVS If you successfully installed KDE adn QT you should be ready. Please install QT2 in a different directory than Qt 1.4 (it's not binary compatible). The libs are generated in QT-SOURCES/lib/ Install KDE2 in a different direcory than KDE1, it's not binary compatible. e.g. in the directory kdelibs do this: export QTDIR= export KDEDIR=/usr/ocal/kde2 #where you want to install KDE2 ./conffigure --prefix=$KDEDIR make make install This should install the KDE2 libraries in /usr/local/kde2 Now compile and install BibleTime. Read the Installation page on www.bibletime.de and the README ;-) Do this to configure and compile BibleTime: export QTDIR= export KDEDIR=/usr/ocal/kde2 make -f Makefile.cvs ./configure --with-sworddir= make make install You have to show KDE2 applications where the KDEDIR of KDE2 is, it's different from KDE1. As user you can se these settings to run KDE1 and KDE2 apps simoultanously: export KDEDIR=KDE1 directory export KDEDIRS=KDE2 directory export KDEHOME=where KDE2's settings are stored e.g.. export KDEDIR=/opt/kde export KDEDIRS=/usr/local/lib export KDEHOME=$HOME/.kde2 Now run BibleTime with this command: $KDEDIRS/bin/bibletime, maybe you have t check permissions Normally configure shows you what's wrong with your system! Hope it works, --Joachim > Joachim, > I really tried hard to get KDE things to compile, but had no luck. I > felt I would have better luck with the latest snapshot KDE2.0Beta2 (I > think) that I found on the kde website. Maybe I should have listened to > your advice and went with the latest CVS tree. The filenames were > something like *1.93.tar.bz2 I got Qt from this directory to compile, > and I even got KDELIBS to compile, but KDEBASE failed miserably, and > Bibletime still failed on ./configure. Maybe I need to set environment > args or something. I did a make install on KDELIBS and it looked like > it went into /usr/lib/*, and my KDEDIR is set to /usr. I don't know. > I'll keep trying if someone can help get me up and running, but I've > been getting frustrated. Any chance someone could just produce a simple > test program that shows the error? > > -Troy. > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi Troy! > > > > > Joachim, > > > Tried a lookup with > > > > > > test/parsekey Ps de > > > > > > It returns: > > > > > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > > > > > Seems like it works correctly. > > > > Yes. Looks like a bad problem of BibleTime 0.2x. It worked in earlier > > days. We use casts like this: > > > > Versekey *key = new VerseKey(); > > *key = "Psalms 1:1"; > > QString keystr = (const char*)*key; > > > > Maybe this is the problem? > > > > If I disable the locale support in BibleTime 0.2x it works! Using a > > locale it can't resolve all abbrevs (not even the english standard ones). > > > > --Joachim > > > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > > > > > :) > > > > You need a KDE2 prerelease (at least kdelibs) (I use CVSUP) and a Qt > > 2.2.0beta (I use the CVSUP module qt-copy). Have a look at www.kde.org > > how to get the KDE sources using CVSUP. It's the best the get all the > > sources using CVS or CVSUP, you know why ;-) > > But you can also use RPM packages or whatever. > > > > After installing KDE2 get the sources of BibleTime 1.0CVS and compile > > them the traditional way (./configure ; make; make install). > > > > I hope you like our new features we added afdter 0.2x! A huge difference > > ;-) > > > > Good luck! > > > > --Joachim > > > > > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 14:46:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:46:17 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences In-Reply-To: <39AB1344.8EB4A33A@crosswire.org> References: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> <00082815493500.00271@joachim> <39AB1344.8EB4A33A@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082914461701.00266@joachim> Hi Troy! Very good ideas you mentioned here! A common formating is very good, this would give us a common fornat we can work with (all references have the same format, we can decide how words of Jesus are displayed, how footnotes are formatted, how strongs are formatted etc.). I really would prefer this! This gives us much more power at frontend side! We have to find a easy to use, easy to convert format for SwordCommon! Does somebody have some ideas for this? If somebody could implement it I'd be very happy ;-) --Joachim > You might not like this response at first, but spend a minute or two and > think about it: > > I've left this up to the frontend to decide how Bible references are > formatted. > > Think about this. We have many different markup implementations for > texts. These are then run through a filter that knows about the markup > language, and also knows about the frontend's desired markup. Thus we > have GBFHTML, etc., filters. What's the difference between assuming the > filter knows how the frontend wishes to display the module, and assuming > the filter know how the frontend wishes the get reference marks? > > Ultimately, there is a design proposal in the API ref on the website > that uses an intermediate markup language to which all texts would be > converted, then from this common markup, we could render to the > frontend. I believe this 2 phase conversion allows much more modular > and reusable filters and will solve this very issue. The API will be > responsible for the first phase (getting the module text from whatever > format into the common markup), and the frontend writer will be > responsible for a filter from this common markup to what he or she wants > to render. This would also cut down on the number of filters > exponentially, as there would be no need for a 'From every, to every' > set: GBFHTML, GBFRTF, ThMLHTML, ThMLRTF, PlainHTML, PlainRTF, etc., > etc. But instead: GBFCOMMON, ThMLCOMMON, PlainCOMMON, COMMONHTML, > COMMONRTF. > > OptionsFilters could also be radically reduced. Instead of trying to > provide GBFFootnotes, redletter, strongs, and everything else, for each > format to each format, instead, the OptionsFilters would be written > against the common markup and would work for everything. > > This will, of course, impose more overhead, but only for rendering, > which, I don't believe, we are having any speed issues at the moment. > > > Thoughts? > > -Troy. > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Am Mon, 28 Aug 2000 schrieben Sie: > > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > > ... > > > > IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like > > > > BibleTime. I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we > > > > should implement support for bible crossreferences. > > > > Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two > > > > important things: > > > > > > > > -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be > > > > formatted. At the moment every module uses it's one reference formats > > > > (GBF, RAW etc.). This is the most important issue. Otherwise we would > > > > have to add time wasting regexp mattching things etc. and every > > > > frontend has to implement it's own solutions. It's not good not to > > > > have a standard for crossreferences. > > > > > > > > -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as > > > > HTML (generated by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they > > > > should look like in PLAIN formatted text etc. > > > > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an > > > > example): > > > > > > > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > > > > > > > > Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, > > > > should we use it? > > > > > > Use ThML - it's all worked out for you. > > > > > > Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. This > > > is not a recording. > > > > > > :-) > > > > Sure, ThML is possible. But we have a HTML widget in BibleTime, and > > somehow the filters like ThML2HTML have to work. > > And only a few modules are using ThML. > > Other solutions? > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 16:45:44 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] next release of curses port In-Reply-To: <39AB2C4A.583251D@crosswire.org> from "Troy A. Griffitts" at Aug 28, 2000 08:21:46 PM Message-ID: <200008291645.MAA00575@jibsail.cacc.ncsu.edu> Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > > Richard, > I tried 0.13. Had a few troubles compiling, but it was my fault. I > had systemwide headers for SWORD 1.4.x on my box, and no libs, so when I > saw your -L../../../lib, I figured that you had your package somewhere > like: sword/apps/console/irenaeus > When I place the package here, it found the libs (the 1.5.x libs!) and > everything compiled fine, but core dumped. ugh. I finally figured it > out and changed your -I in Makefile.in to -I../../../include to match > the -L I'll make that change. > > I like the 1,2,3,4 thing. I think this will be really useful. Are you > thinking of making each number a new 'desktop'? > > -Troy. A new desktop for each number is a possibility. My actual intent is the following: I want to be able to change the window size for each of the screens. I want to be able to simultaneously display several of the screens. I want to add a 'linking' ability between screens. By this I mean that I can say that both screen 2 and 5 should always point to the same verse. Then when I move around in 2, 5 moves with it. Similarly the ability to say that screen 2 and 5 should use the same module. Also the ability to say that screen 5 should also get displayed whenever I switch to screen 2. I want the ability to call macro files. By this I mean that the user should be able to request that a file be executed within irenaeus. Once I have all of these working, the user will then be able to start up ir. as he can in 0.13, and then tell the program to run a configuration file that sets up either: interlinear (several translations simultaneously displayed on screen, and move in sync) module sync (look at several different verses at the same time, and then switch to a different translation, or even commentary, and see the same set of verses.) emulation (can make the interface resemble the setup of some other front end.) some configuration that he designed himself for whatever application he has in mind. several of the above, and switch between them. Since posting 0.13, I have made some progress towards this. I have just berely (virtually no testing, but it worked on one file) gotten macro files working, I can with only minor glitches change window size (at compile time) and display multiple screens (I removed all calls to erase the entire screen). Some of the structures to do the proposed linking are in place, but not yet working. Once I get home tonight, I will post my updated code on my site, and email you. I want to get the above parts mostly working before posting a 0.14. > > > > raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > > > > Hi, I just wanted to say that I am putting out my latest revision > > of the curses frontend for sword (irenaeus) on sourceforge.net. > > > > The main change that I have made is that the front end now acts > > like it has several 'virtual terminals' like the virtual consoles of > > linux. Switch between them with number keys. May seem like a strange > > interface, but once I get more things working, I think it will make some > > sense. > > > > Richard Holcombe > Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:22:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joe Walker) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 04:22:40 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <00082821212200.00206@marten> <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39AB2C80.44170608@eireneh.com> Hi, If I understand the problem correctly the problem is that a search for "the" or "Lord" comes up with lots of hits and storing all those hits in a fast index file uses a lot of space. My Java program uses 3 ways to store lists of verses to combat this. They are all available either in memory or on disk. I have an interface "Passage" that stores a list of verses and 3 implementations: DistinctPassage - a simple list of verses. RangedPassage - stores a list of verse pairs (start and end) BitwisePassage - stores a 31k long bitmap. One bit per verse The latter can promise that any result set can be stored in only a few K, and a fairly simple bit of maths can be used to work out which is the best algorithm to use. The latter also makes for very very very fast result set combining methods. To search for "moses" AND "manna" I simple AND the bitmaps together. Shout if you want to know more. All code is GPL. Joe. "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > Martin, > Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the > reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one > search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with > verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search > is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, > yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. > > Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to > find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the > verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the > key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through > the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For > extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the > entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching > mechanism. > > Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly > appreciated. > > -Troy. > > Martin Gruner wrote: > > > > Another feature request: > > > > At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key > > (bible reference). > > Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about > > searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would > > involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the > > location of every single word in the module. > > For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in > > the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... > > If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this > > word occures in the bible. > > Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded > > up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You > > could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. > > I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) > > idea. > > > > Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 17:08:08 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:08:08 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue In-Reply-To: <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> References: <00082821212200.00206@marten> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000829093423.00a524d0@mail.dancris.com> Two ideas here: 1) Include word counts in your indexes. If you are doing an AND condition check the word counts of each word and then get a verse list for the least used word, then search those verses for the other words. 2) When checking that verses fall in the correct range for a word with lots of hits, use something like a binary search to establish the boundaries in the index. Then just use the index entries between the boundary records. Jerry At 06:15 PM 8/28/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to >find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the >verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the >key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through >the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For >extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the >entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching >mechanism. > >Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly >appreciated. > > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 17:28:35 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:28:35 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: <39AB2349.4221D2A7@crosswire.org> References: <39AA7E98.F460FC29@Kristof.CZ> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000829101435.00a59cd0@mail.dancris.com> Troy, I wrote a small program to browse the NT VSS files and the BKS and CPS files. It shows how records in BKS point to records in CPS that point to records in VSS that point to text in NT, and displays ten verses from NT with the selected verse in color. I was wanting to look at the data in these indexes to see what you were using and if there were any surprises. (Why does CPS start with a value of 4 when VSS has 6 byte records?) Unfortunately, I wrote it in a learning edition of VB and I can not compile it. But if anyone wants the files to compile, I can post them. Jerry At 07:43 PM 8/28/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >Petr, > >To make your life (and hopefully others') easier, I've produced a new >utility: sword/utilities/mod2vpl.cpp >This tool will export a verse module one verse per line (vpl). I will >work on writing a vpl2mod.cpp to import this same format. For now, you >can run this utility on an existing module and > output to a file. Then >do a wc on this file and your file and be sure that there are the exact >same number of lines in both files. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 18:48:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Brandon Staggs) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:48:03 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <00082821212200.00206@marten> <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> <39AB2C80.44170608@eireneh.com> Message-ID: <003501c011e9$bde92800$6501a8c0@bmoney> What I did with SwordSearcher is similar to your bitmap. A search creates an array of 31102 bytes. Each key is looked up in the pre-index, and in each verse it appears in gets its value incremented in the array. For a simple AND search, you just need to make sure that each byte has the correct value. An OR or NOT search is just as easy. If a phrase search or case sensitive search is done, each verse needs to be individually verified, but you've already removed every verse that CANT be correct, so it still takes less time. I have never seen any realistic searches done that are actually slower with this method. In SwordSearcher at least, on all of my machines, searches appear almost instantaneously. Joe's individual bitmaps for each key is a better idea if you are going to implement wildcard search abilities. -Brandon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Walker" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue > > Hi, > > If I understand the problem correctly the problem is that a search for > "the" or "Lord" comes up with lots of hits and storing all those hits > in a fast index file uses a lot of space. > > My Java program uses 3 ways to store lists of verses to combat this. > They are all available either in memory or on disk. > > I have an interface "Passage" that stores a list of verses and 3 > implementations: > > DistinctPassage - a simple list of verses. > RangedPassage - stores a list of verse pairs (start and end) > BitwisePassage - stores a 31k long bitmap. One bit per verse > > The latter can promise that any result set can be stored in only a > few K, and a fairly simple bit of maths can be used to work out which > is the best algorithm to use. > The latter also makes for very very very fast result set combining > methods. To search for "moses" AND "manna" I simple AND the bitmaps > together. > > Shout if you want to know more. All code is GPL. > > Joe. > > > > "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > > > Martin, > > Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the > > reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one > > search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with > > verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search > > is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, > > yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. > > > > Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to > > find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the > > verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the > > key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through > > the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For > > extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the > > entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching > > mechanism. > > > > Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly > > appreciated. > > > > -Troy. > > > > Martin Gruner wrote: > > > > > > Another feature request: > > > > > > At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key > > > (bible reference). > > > Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about > > > searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would > > > involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the > > > location of every single word in the module. > > > For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in > > > the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... > > > If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this > > > word occures in the bible. > > > Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded > > > up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You > > > could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. > > > I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) > > > idea. > > > > > > Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 17:49:19 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jeremy Pointer) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:49:19 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Translation References: <000001c01183$43168070$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: <39ABF79E.E9701788@pointers.co.za> Hello fellow Seffrican As far as I know both the NV and OV are Copyrighted, by Bybelgenootskap, look in the front of a printed bible there are address details there, I have previously written to them, and I think also emailed but have never recieved a reply. Good luck -- Jeremy Pointer jerm@pointers.co.za http://www.pointers.co.za/jeremy/ From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 19:52:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:52:00 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue In-Reply-To: <39AB2C80.44170608@eireneh.com> Message-ID: <000001c011f2$98552a90$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Good day, In option 3, would the bitmap not be about 8.3K? (31102 verses / 8) Else it is a bytemap, not a bitmap :) You are right that it is very fast. I use the same method. For wildcards it is also really fast (just OR a few bitmaps). The way to work around the huge size of the "bitmap index" is to store it in another format (like a list or Ranged list) and convert when needed. I like your idea about the RangedPassage as well. It really makes the list of verses for certain "common" words much smaller. Where is your program located Joe? God bless, nathan -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org [mailto:owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org]On Behalf Of Joe Walker Sent: 29 August 2000 05:23 To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue Hi, If I understand the problem correctly the problem is that a search for "the" or "Lord" comes up with lots of hits and storing all those hits in a fast index file uses a lot of space. My Java program uses 3 ways to store lists of verses to combat this. They are all available either in memory or on disk. I have an interface "Passage" that stores a list of verses and 3 implementations: DistinctPassage - a simple list of verses. RangedPassage - stores a list of verse pairs (start and end) BitwisePassage - stores a 31k long bitmap. One bit per verse The latter can promise that any result set can be stored in only a few K, and a fairly simple bit of maths can be used to work out which is the best algorithm to use. The latter also makes for very very very fast result set combining methods. To search for "moses" AND "manna" I simple AND the bitmaps together. Shout if you want to know more. All code is GPL. Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 20:06:06 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:06:06 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF reference code Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000829135556.00b53840@ebible.org> The Delphi code I use to convert GBF to assorted other formats (HTML, plain ASCII, RTF, LaTeX, etc.) is at ftp://ebible.org/pub/new/gbfsrc.zip, if you are interested. You may use it under the terms of the Gnu Public License, if you like. If you would like to add to it, i. e. to convert to or from ThML, feel free. :-) Yes, Troy, using one format as a "hub" for format conversions is a good idea. That was my original intention for GBF. Eventually, I believe we will see a better "hub" format that is based on XML and Unicode. (I just talked with Mike Perez of the ABS about that, and it sounds like we would do well to keep track of what they are doing.) In the mean time, we have GBF, and it will, no doubt, convert to and from XML, too. :-) _______ Michael Paul Johnson mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 20:46:58 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:46:58 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000829101435.00a59cd0@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: Sounds pretty cool. If you want to post the code, I can try compiling it and posting it. The bks and cps files don't actually get used at the moment by sword, but it might be nice if we could implement support for them if they are present. With basic KJV verse mapped translations, the speed increase gained by keeping those arrays static in memory is probably worth the space in memory. --Chris On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Jerry Hastings wrote: > Troy, I wrote a small program to browse the NT VSS files and the BKS and > CPS files. It shows how records in BKS point to records in CPS that point > to records in VSS that point to text in NT, and displays ten verses from NT > with the selected verse in color. I was wanting to look at the data in > these indexes to see what you were using and if there were any > surprises. (Why does CPS start with a value of 4 when VSS has 6 byte > records?) Unfortunately, I wrote it in a learning edition of VB and I can > not compile it. But if anyone wants the files to compile, I can post them. > > Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 21:49:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joe Walker) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:49:56 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <000001c011f2$98552a90$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: <39AC3004.9939E555@eireneh.com> Nathan wrote: > In option 3, would the bitmap not be about 8.3K? (31102 verses / 8) > Else it is a bytemap, not a bitmap :) To put the size in perspective. If you take every word in the KJV and search for it and store the results in whatever is the smallest of the 3 approaches mentioned, and store the lot in a big RandomAccessFile then the total size is 4.5Mb This is in my opinion a little on the large size if you want to do a d/l of a new version. However since the data is duplicated there is nothing to stop a clever installation script creating it, or even a very clever caching search that creates it on the fly. > You are right that it is very fast. I use the same method. > For wildcards it is also really fast (just OR a few bitmaps). > The way to work around the huge size of the "bitmap index" is to > store it in another format (like a list or Ranged list) and > convert when needed. I have a working scheme where by you can do a best match. So you type in your phrase and it first looks up every word you typed in in a thesaurus and then searches for every match, returning you the verse with hopefully the most similar meaning. I find it very useful, but for it to work you do need a blinding fast search mechanism. > I like your idea about the RangedPassage as well. It really makes > the list of verses for certain "common" words much smaller. > > Where is your program located Joe? There was a servlet version on the web, but I think it is broken right now. I've been working on a project for my brother (blood and in Christ) that needed to be done before his wedding, so I've not done much on it in the past few months. If you want to look at code, then I can send you what ever you want very quickly. If you want a working product then I'll need a few more weeks. I've tarred up the code in question. And I'll place it at: http://www.eireneh.com/passage.tar.gz It is all Java, and will only be of use for case A above. Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 22:21:37 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:21:37 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <000001c011f2$98552a90$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> <39AC3004.9939E555@eireneh.com> Message-ID: <39AC3771.C2F49E22@crosswire.org> Joe and others that asked, The code for our first attempt at word indices and fast searches is in: sword/src/modules/texts/rawtext/rawtext.cpp RawText::createSearchFramework // creates the framework (done once) RawText::Search // uses the framework Anyone want to reimplement these? I know! Let's have a contest! :) Smallest indices with the fastest _accurate_ response time wins. :), -Troy. Joe Walker wrote: > > Nathan wrote: > > In option 3, would the bitmap not be about 8.3K? (31102 verses / 8) > > Else it is a bytemap, not a bitmap :) > > To put the size in perspective. If you take every word in the KJV and > search for it and store the results in whatever is the smallest of > the 3 approaches mentioned, and store the lot in a big RandomAccessFile > then the total size is 4.5Mb > > This is in my opinion a little on the large size if you want to do > a d/l of a new version. However since the data is duplicated there is > nothing to stop a clever installation script creating it, or even > a very clever caching search that creates it on the fly. > > > You are right that it is very fast. I use the same method. > > For wildcards it is also really fast (just OR a few bitmaps). > > The way to work around the huge size of the "bitmap index" is to > > store it in another format (like a list or Ranged list) and > > convert when needed. > > I have a working scheme where by you can do a best match. So you type > in your phrase and it first looks up every word you typed in in a > thesaurus and then searches for every match, returning you the verse with > hopefully the most similar meaning. > I find it very useful, but for it to work you do need a blinding fast > search mechanism. > > > I like your idea about the RangedPassage as well. It really makes > > the list of verses for certain "common" words much smaller. > > > > Where is your program located Joe? > > There was a servlet version on the web, but I think it is broken right > now. I've been working on a project for my brother (blood and in Christ) > that needed to be done before his wedding, so I've not done much on it > in the past few months. > > If you want to look at code, then I can send you what ever you want > very quickly. If you want a working product then I'll need a few more > weeks. > > I've tarred up the code in question. And I'll place it at: > http://www.eireneh.com/passage.tar.gz > It is all Java, and will only be of use for case A above. > > Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 23:40:49 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:40:49 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast Search Framework [was: Another Important Issue] References: <000001c011f2$98552a90$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> <39AC3004.9939E555@eireneh.com> <39AC3771.C2F49E22@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39AC4A01.2A010992@crosswire.org> OK, I've heavily documented the code for the search framework. Please get the latest rawtext.cpp from cvs and you should have some help to understand it now. -Troy. "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > Joe and others that asked, > > The code for our first attempt at word indices and fast searches is in: > sword/src/modules/texts/rawtext/rawtext.cpp > > RawText::createSearchFramework // creates the framework (done once) > RawText::Search // uses the framework > > Anyone want to reimplement these? > > I know! Let's have a contest! :) Smallest indices with the fastest > _accurate_ response time wins. > > :), > -Troy. > > Joe Walker wrote: > > > > Nathan wrote: > > > In option 3, would the bitmap not be about 8.3K? (31102 verses / 8) > > > Else it is a bytemap, not a bitmap :) > > > > To put the size in perspective. If you take every word in the KJV and > > search for it and store the results in whatever is the smallest of > > the 3 approaches mentioned, and store the lot in a big RandomAccessFile > > then the total size is 4.5Mb > > > > This is in my opinion a little on the large size if you want to do > > a d/l of a new version. However since the data is duplicated there is > > nothing to stop a clever installation script creating it, or even > > a very clever caching search that creates it on the fly. > > > > > You are right that it is very fast. I use the same method. > > > For wildcards it is also really fast (just OR a few bitmaps). > > > The way to work around the huge size of the "bitmap index" is to > > > store it in another format (like a list or Ranged list) and > > > convert when needed. > > > > I have a working scheme where by you can do a best match. So you type > > in your phrase and it first looks up every word you typed in in a > > thesaurus and then searches for every match, returning you the verse with > > hopefully the most similar meaning. > > I find it very useful, but for it to work you do need a blinding fast > > search mechanism. > > > > > I like your idea about the RangedPassage as well. It really makes > > > the list of verses for certain "common" words much smaller. > > > > > > Where is your program located Joe? > > > > There was a servlet version on the web, but I think it is broken right > > now. I've been working on a project for my brother (blood and in Christ) > > that needed to be done before his wedding, so I've not done much on it > > in the past few months. > > > > If you want to look at code, then I can send you what ever you want > > very quickly. If you want a working product then I'll need a few more > > weeks. > > > > I've tarred up the code in question. And I'll place it at: > > http://www.eireneh.com/passage.tar.gz > > It is all Java, and will only be of use for case A above. > > > > Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 23:34:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:34:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] next release of curses port In-Reply-To: <200008291645.MAA00575@jibsail.cacc.ncsu.edu> from "raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu" at Aug 29, 2000 12:45:44 PM Message-ID: <200008292334.TAA01449@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Made some changes. Not ready for a new version yet, but if you're really curious I have it at http://www4.ncsu.edu:8030/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/ raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > > Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > > > > Richard, > > I tried 0.13. Had a few troubles compiling, but it was my fault. I > > had systemwide headers for SWORD 1.4.x on my box, and no libs, so when I > > saw your -L../../../lib, I figured that you had your package somewhere > > like: sword/apps/console/irenaeus > > When I place the package here, it found the libs (the 1.5.x libs!) and > > everything compiled fine, but core dumped. ugh. I finally figured it > > out and changed your -I in Makefile.in to -I../../../include to match > > the -L > I'll make that change. > > > > > I like the 1,2,3,4 thing. I think this will be really useful. Are you > > thinking of making each number a new 'desktop'? > > > > -Troy. > A new desktop for each number is a possibility. > My actual intent is the following: > I want to be able to change the window size for each of the screens. > I want to be able to simultaneously display several of the screens. > I want to add a 'linking' ability between screens. By this I mean that > I can say that both screen 2 and 5 should always point to the same > verse. Then when I move around in 2, 5 moves with it. Similarly > the ability to say that screen 2 and 5 should use the same module. > Also the ability to say that screen 5 should also get displayed whenever > I switch to screen 2. > I want the ability to call macro files. By this I mean that the user > should be able to request that a file be executed within irenaeus. > > Once I have all of these working, the user will then be able to > start up ir. as he can in 0.13, and then tell the program to run > a configuration file that sets up either: > > interlinear (several translations simultaneously displayed on screen, and > move in sync) > > module sync (look at several different verses at the same time, and then > switch to a different translation, or even commentary, and see the same > set of verses.) > > emulation (can make the interface resemble the setup of some other > front end.) > > some configuration that he designed himself for whatever application > he has in mind. > > several of the above, and switch between them. > > > Since posting 0.13, I have made some progress towards this. I have just > berely (virtually no testing, but it worked on one file) gotten macro > files working, I can with only minor glitches change window size > (at compile time) and display multiple screens (I removed > all calls to erase the entire screen). Some of the structures to do the > proposed linking are in place, but not yet working. > > Once I get home tonight, I will post my updated code on my site, and email > you. I want to get the above parts mostly working before posting a 0.14. > > > > > > > > raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > > > > > > Hi, I just wanted to say that I am putting out my latest revision > > > of the curses frontend for sword (irenaeus) on sourceforge.net. > > > > > > The main change that I have made is that the front end now acts > > > like it has several 'virtual terminals' like the virtual consoles of > > > linux. Switch between them with number keys. May seem like a strange > > > interface, but once I get more things working, I think it will make some > > > sense. > > > > > > Richard Holcombe > > > > Richard Holcombe > Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 05:01:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:01:01 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue In-Reply-To: <39AC3004.9939E555@eireneh.com> Message-ID: <000401c0123f$4ac5f1e0$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Good day, Joe wrote: >To put the size in perspective. If you take every word in the KJV and >search for it and store the results in whatever is the smallest of >the 3 approaches mentioned, and store the lot in a big RandomAccessFile >then the total size is 4.5Mb The index size I got with just options 1 and 3 was 1.32 Mb. Adding option 2 will probably make it even smaller. The option 3 "bitmap" is 3888 bytes (31102 / 8) (sorry the 8.3K was wrong!) in size. I do not store the number of times it occurs in the verse cause it is easier getting that at run-time. >I've tarred up the code in question. And I'll place it at: > http://www.eireneh.com/passage.tar.gz >It is all Java, and will only be of use for case A above. Thank you, I will have a look at it! God bless you, nathan From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 07:36:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:36:48 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas In-Reply-To: <39AC3771.C2F49E22@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <000001c01255$0e302410$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Hello everyone! There seems to be quite an interest in the fast index searching, so I thought I would write up some of my ideas. Maybe you can use this as discussion points, disagree, improve, change it or ignore it. :-) Step 1. Building the wordlist The first thing to do is get a list of all the words in the file. This means reading through each verse/paragraph and identifying each word. This is fairly easy, as one can just convert all punctuation characters to spaces, and then get a list of the remaining words. Keep in mind other languages have many other accented characters, that you do not see those as punctuation! Also keep the ' in mind e.g. "isn't" is a valid word (else you chop it into "isn" and "t"). Also convert the words to lower case. You can always check for case sensitive or insensitive at run-time (once you have found the verse/paragraph). You might disagree here, but I found the wordlist becomes too big, and searching the wordlist becomes slower. And the index becomes bigger. You might want to do some "stemming" (reducing the number of words) by removing all words ending with 's. You might want to do more stemming e.g. removing the "-ly" at the end of words, or eliminating plurals (most ending with "s") A lot depends on your final view. Most times you will want to give the person searching both the singular and plural of a word, without them having to worry about specifying both. There is plenty of work one can do here. Then accumulate these words into a dictionary (list of the words) and a concordance (in which verse/paragraph) they occur. My wordlist for the KJV consists of 12560 unique words. Step 2. The concordance The format of the concordance can be in any of the 3 methods that Joe described (use the best method for that specific word). 1. A list of pointers to the verse/paragraph: This works especially well with once-only words (occur only once in the document). Then it only uses 2 bytes. 2. A range list: Specifies a range at a time (4 bytes specify begin and end verse) e.g. Genesis 1:1-31 would 4 bytes instead of 62. (Must admit this is a new one that I hadn't thought of.) 3. A "bitmap": This is a list of bits specifying whether the word occurs in a verse or not. As there are 31102 verses in the King James Bible, it would imply Genesis 1:1 is bit 0, 1:2 is but 2, etc. If the bit is set, then the word occurs in that verse. This is especially good for very common words e.g. "the". As there are 8 bits per byte, we can store 8 verses per byte, so we need 3888 bytes for this bitmap. I used formats 1 and 3, and the size of the KJV index was 0.89 Mb. [In short: Use a bitmap if the bitmap becomes shorter than the list of pointers. There are 52 words where this happens. So we have 52x3888 bytes (for the bitmaps) + 12508 words remaining x 27.16 (avg. occurrence of these words) x 2 bytes per pointer + 12560 (to indicate which format we are using) = 0.89 Mb] This could improve by using Joe's method 2 as well. I have looked at storing everything as bitmaps. Because these are very sparse bitmaps, they compress very well. The resultant compressed size was 1.32 Mb. Not worth the effort if I already got 0.89 Mb. PS. Make sure the wordlist is sorted. It speeds things up (about 8 times in most cases). Step 3. The search Single words: They are easy! Look up the word in the list, get the pointer list or bitmap, and give it back to the person. Multiple words: Get the word from the wordlist. If the format is not bitmap, convert it to bitmap. Get next word. Get the bitmap. Then AND the 2 bitmaps. Resultant is the list of all verses where both occur. It is very fast, and works as well with frequently occurring words as with others. Keep going through the list of search words. Wildcards e.g. "bapt*" or "s?n": This is almost the same as the multiple words, except you OR the bitmaps. NOT: Easy! Just NOT the bitmap. Expressions: Here some parsing is needed. This is when the person asks e.g. "((Jesus and Son) not Father) or Christ*" The expression will have to be parsed, e.g. into BNF, and then ANDed, ORed, NOTed in the correct order. The NOT part is the difficult one here :) Range: Do the same as for the above. Then just trim the bitmap to the specified range (might have a bitmap for the range called "Genesis" which you then AND over this one.) It will be easy and quick to generate one on the fly. Proximity: This is when you want to have some words, but they can span +/- 5 verses. You know the words are close together, but not in the same verse/paragraph. This is obviously more difficult, and that is why few programs have it. I have not looked at this as yet either. Just mentioning it here for completeness. Other languages: Something To think about as well is to make it easier for people searching other languages. This would imply that people could type in "seen" and get "seën". (Afrikaans word for "bless"). Sort of accent-insensitive. Helps a lot with languages that have many accents. Natural language queries: e.g. "Where in the Bible can I read the 10 Commandments?" Skip this for now... Spelling mistakes: If a word is not found, I was thinking on using a "soundex" type routine to get the nearest words to it. (soundex will associate "kayotik" with "chaotic") I don't know if soundex is the correct one. There are better routines. (Might even use something like PPM they use with natural language queries.) Then suggest an alternative to the person. You need to look at this, especially with the way people spell "color" vs. "colour", etc. The KJV uses "colour". (I could throw in some flame-bait here about "proper" English ) Step 4. Ranking If you want to rank the search results, the way you build the concordance will be slightly different. I this case option 1 (list of pointers) will be pointer + number of occurrences (1 byte is enough). Format 1 of the concordance will be 50% bigger (pointer = 2 bytes + 1 byte for occurrence) Format 2 (haven't thought about this one yet) Format 3 grows 8 times! (the bitmap now becomes a bytemap). Using format 1 and 3, the index size grows to (3 x 31102) + (43.85 x 3 x 12577) + 12560 = 1.76 Mb The ranking is then done on a "majority rules" method. The verse with the most occurrences get the top spot. A better method would be to look at 1. The book/chapter with the most hits 2. Then the verse with the most hits. Another approach to the searching/ranking would be like the search engines. The verse/paragraph where the most words occur get the top position. They also look at which is the longest document with the most search words occurring. Step 5. Optionally compressing the text Because all searching is basically done in the index, the text does not have to be in uncompressed format any more, and can be compressed. When a verse needs to be displayed on the screen, it is uncompressed on the fly and then displayed. This way you can get the entire KJV plus index in just over 2 Mb. Speed: You can really speed things along by having the wordlist in memory. It is very small (89.3K). The concordance part you can leave on disk. I spent quite some time researching and thinking about this, so hopefully it saves someone somewhere some time! God bless you, nathan http://www.nathan.co.za I thought these verses were sort of applicable... :) "Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; ..." - Deuteronomy 13:14 "... the honour of kings is to search out a matter." - Proverbs 25:2 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13 From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 11:47:12 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:47:12 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module References: <39AA7E98.F460FC29@Kristof.CZ> Message-ID: <39ACF440.40692541@crosswire.org> Petr, Both tools now exist and work against the KJV module. eg. mod2vpl KJV > yoyo mkdir kjv vpl2mod yoyo ./kjv/ This will create a verse per line (vpl) file called yoyo. Then will use this file to product a new module in the ./kjv/ directory. Hope this helps, -Troy. Kri¹tof Petr wrote: > > Hello Troy and others. > > I just obtained new translation of Bible. Not exist in OLB or another > format so I must make module from the scratch. > > Can you make public the exact step by step how to do it? > > What is the input format for some sword tools? > > I did make it to plain text, one verse per line, no headers or labels, > but rawtxidx > is unable to successfuly generate index files. > > What is the right way to make new module? > > Troy, you did never give qualified answer for this question > if I remember correctly. > > Thanks > > Petr > > -- > Nowhere to run. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 11:54:37 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:54:37 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText Message-ID: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> Our most common Bible module driver-- RawText-- now is writable. This will allow editing of most of our existing modules. The implementation appends the new entry to the end of the datafile. Lot's of editing will produce a bigger and bigger data file. I'm hoping to add a 'getModifications()' option to this driver that will find appended entries. This will allow us to put in a 'Submit Edits' option in the frontends and allow users to submit changes for modules. I think this will be useful. This is one idea that came from dinner with Jerry and Geoff Hastings last week. It was nice to finally meet someone in person from the project. We had a good brainstorming lunch! -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 14:19:33 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael A Hamblin) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:19:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas In-Reply-To: <000001c01255$0e302410$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Nathan wrote: > There seems to be quite an interest in the fast > index searching, so I thought I would write up > some of my ideas. Maybe you can use this as > discussion points, disagree, improve, change it > or ignore it. :-) It sounds like you've really put some thought into this :) -- Michael Hamblin http://www.utdallas.edu/~michaelh/ michaelh@utdallas.edu http://www.ductape.net/ UTD Linux User Group Technical and Communications Services "Why would I want any more?" -Stavesacre From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 17:21:41 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:21:41 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale In-Reply-To: <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00083017214100.10732@joachim> Hi Troy! With newest CVS some things are broken now. IO committed the testprogram keycast for a new test (retrieving th key by casting to const char*). "parsekey Ps de" does output nothing "keycast Genesis 1:4 de" does output 1. Mose 1:1, but it should be 1. Mose 1:4 With not locale support it works. --Joachim > Joachim, > Tried a lookup with > > test/parsekey Ps de > > It returns: > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > Seems like it works correctly. > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > :) > > -Troy. > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi! > > > > BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr changes > > of the lookup string. > > > > For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, but > > Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD releases. Is > > this a problem witht the changes of the locale support you mentioned? > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 17:34:38 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Daniel Glassey) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:34:38 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences In-Reply-To: <00082914461701.00266@joachim> References: <39AB1344.8EB4A33A@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39AD53BE.22470.2EEC551A@localhost> On 29 Aug 2000, at 14:46, Joachim Ansorg sent forth the message: > Hi Troy! > > Very good ideas you mentioned here! > A common formating is very good, this would give us a common fornat we can work > with (all references have the same format, we can decide how words of Jesus are > displayed, how footnotes are formatted, how strongs are formatted etc.). I > really would prefer this! > > This gives us much more power at frontend side! > We have to find a easy to use, easy to convert format for SwordCommon! Does > somebody have some ideas for this? > > If somebody could implement it I'd be very happy ;-) > > --Joachim Looks like theres these options for SwordCommon format (1) Use GBF. (2) Use ThML. Er, I hate to say it, but I can't see easy agreement here on which one to go for (would love to be proved wrong :) ). I guess it really depends what is easier for the frontends to display sensibly. Any ideas? (3) Develop new format on own. Seems like a waste of time when theres good formats already. Unless of course something simpler is needed for the frontends to deal with. Maybe a modified version of them? (4) Develop format along with ABS and use that. Will take time, depends if the frontends would like a common format to work with now or would wait. (5) Support GBF and ThML and the new format as common to be nice to everyone. defeats the purpose of a 'common' format Daniel From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 18:10:10 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:10:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences In-Reply-To: <39AD53BE.22470.2EEC551A@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Daniel Glassey wrote: > (1) Use GBF. > (2) Use ThML. > Er, I hate to say it, but I can't see easy agreement here on which one > to go for (would love to be proved wrong :) ). I guess it really > depends what is easier for the frontends to display sensibly. Any > ideas? ThML is great for commentaries & lexica. GBF is great for Bible translations. However, ThML is still great for Bible translations while GBF would be rather poor for commentaries, lexica, etc. So, I'd pretty much suggest that ThML be used as a common format, because it support cross-refs and other features not included in GBF. It's also based on HTML, so most people will have a clue how to write ThML without needing to learn a whole new set of tags. --Chris From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 20:23:39 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:23:39 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00083020233902.10806@joachim> Hi Troy! > Our most common Bible module driver-- RawText-- now is writable. This > will allow editing of most of our existing modules. Very good news! This was a thought of me to implement something llike the following in BibleTime: -Create new module (bible, lexicon or commentary) which will be writeable (managed by BibleTime) -Edit verses etc of the module ->This does help us to get user-made modules like commentaries etc. if they do it step by step and if they don't want to convert a whole module at once this feature is IMHO useful. Does somebody like it or find it useful? With the new RawText thing it will IMHO be easier. > The implementation appends the new entry to the end of the datafile. > Lot's of editing will produce a bigger and bigger data file. Oh! This is not so good. Can't we make it real functional by adding support to write keys somewhere in the text? Otherwise lots of things won't work (e.g. console indexer etc.). In the worst case the text of Genesis 1:1 is at the end of te module! > I'm hoping to add a 'getModifications()' option to this driver that will > find appended entries. This will allow us to put in a 'Submit Edits' > option in the frontends and allow users to submit changes for modules. > I think this will be useful. ?? I do not understabd correctly. Something like I mentioned above (writing at the real position)? > This is one idea that came from dinner with Jerry and Geoff Hastings > last week. It was nice to finally meet someone in person from the > project. We had a good brainstorming lunch! Hey, cool! I like dinners and discussing. Maybe I'll spend some weeks in USA to learn proper english for school, so we'll eat dinner together ;-) > -Troy. -Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 19:28:50 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 05:28:50 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF reference code References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000829135556.00b53840@ebible.org> Message-ID: <39AD6072.AB2A67B7@bigfoot.com> Michael Paul Johnson wrote: > > ... > Yes, Troy, using one format as a "hub" for format conversions is a good idea. That was my original intention for GBF. Eventually, I believe we will see a better "hub" format that is based on XML and Unicode. That's what ThML is. It was developed for the sole purpose of providing exactly the sort of common format that we're talking about. Have a read at . Paul --------- "He must become greater; i must become less." - John 3:30 http://www.bigfoot.com/~paulgear From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 20:56:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:56:00 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> Message-ID: <39AD74E0.7C5DBEF1@crosswire.org> Joachim and Module Writers, Joachim Ansorg wrote: > Very good news! This was a thought of me to implement something llike the > following in BibleTime: > > -Create new module (bible, lexicon or commentary) which will be writeable > (managed by BibleTime) > -Edit verses etc of the module Have a look at vpl2mod. This uses a few new functions that I've pushed back into the API like: RawVerse::CreateModule RawVerse::settext RawText::operator << (const char *); // this one already existed, but is now implemented in RawText. Now RawText module can be written to with the same interface as a personal commentary. This allows easier module creation with all indexing details taken care of in the API. It is a first step to supporting a GUI based module creation package. > ->This does help us to get user-made modules like commentaries etc. if they > do it step by step and if they don't want to convert a whole module at once > this feature is IMHO useful. > Does somebody like it or find it useful? > > With the new RawText thing it will IMHO be easier. Yes! Frontends to allow users to create modules and commentaries easily is a goal for these features. > > The implementation appends the new entry to the end of the datafile. > > Lot's of editing will produce a bigger and bigger data file. > > Oh! This is not so good. > Can't we make it real functional by adding support to write keys somewhere in > the text? Otherwise lots of things won't work (e.g. console indexer etc.). In > the worst case the text of Genesis 1:1 is at the end of te module! :) It's really not all that bad. Consider this: How do you take a data file that looks like this: Entry 1 Entry 2 Entry 3 and replace 'Entry 2' with 'Entry Two'? In real time, quickly? The easiest way was to add the new entry to the end of the data file and point the index to this location. It really doesn't matter where in the data file the entry exists (RawText doesn't care, at least). We can add 'clean' method, or something to 'defrag' the database if it becomes unmanagable, but this will only happen it the user frequently REPLACES entries. Creating a new module from top to bottom results in a perfect sequential datafile anyway. This is the method I used in vpl2mod. > > I'm hoping to add a 'getModifications()' option to this driver that will > > find appended entries. This will allow us to put in a 'Submit Edits' > > option in the frontends and allow users to submit changes for modules. > > I think this will be useful. > > ?? > I do not understabd correctly. Something like I mentioned above (writing at > the real position)? Well, we have users that don't know how to program, but would love to help by proofing texts. This allows them to make changes and then submit them back to us. The frontend could call getModifications() and pop up an email message with the body of the message listing each modification with a place for a comment by the user for each, and with the sender address of the mail to: text-proofs@crosswire.org or something similar. > > This is one idea that came from dinner with Jerry and Geoff Hastings > > last week. It was nice to finally meet someone in person from the > > project. We had a good brainstorming lunch! > > Hey, cool! > I like dinners and discussing. > Maybe I'll spend some weeks in USA to learn proper english for school, so > we'll eat dinner together ;-) Yes! Please come to America. You can house hop between me and many of my friends for months! :) -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 21:17:36 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:17:36 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> <00083017214100.10732@joachim> Message-ID: <39AD79F0.8C3183CE@crosswire.org> Joachim, I don't think you're going to like this reply, but.... > With newest CVS some things are broken now. > IO committed the testprogram keycast for a new test (retrieving th key by > casting to const char*). > > "parsekey Ps de" does output nothing [troy@charis tests]$ ./parsekey Ps de Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 [troy@charis tests]$ > "keycast Genesis 1:4 de" does output 1. Mose 1:1, but it should be 1. Mose 1:4 [troy@charis tests]$ ./keycast "Genesis 1:4" de 1. Mose 1:4 [troy@charis tests]$ :) Make sure you don't have anything in /usr/include/sword or /usr/lib/libsword* And be sure to do a: make clean make from the top level directory. Hope this helps. -Troy. > With not locale support it works. > > --Joachim > > > Joachim, > > Tried a lookup with > > > > test/parsekey Ps de > > > > It returns: > > > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > > > Seems like it works correctly. > > > > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > > > :) > > > > -Troy. > > > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > > > BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr changes > > > of the lookup string. > > > > > > For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, but > > > Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD releases. Is > > > this a problem witht the changes of the locale support you mentioned? > > > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 04:25:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:25:01 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] sword_vss_browser_win.zip Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000830211838.00a58460@mail.dancris.com> I upload the source for that vss index browser. You will need to compile it with VB. http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/JH/sword_vss_ browser_win.zip Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 04:37:12 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:37:12 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000829101435.00a59cd0@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000830213218.00a57170@mail.dancris.com> I am not sure I follow you. I know the files are not used in the end product. But, don't you still compile the indexes into the binary? If you don't have the data in some form what are you using to point into vss? Jerry At 01:46 PM 8/29/2000 -0700, you wrote: >The bks and cps files don't actually get used at the moment by sword, but >it might be nice if we could implement support for them if they are >present. With basic KJV verse mapped translations, the speed increase >gained by keeping those arrays static in memory is probably worth the >space in memory. > >--Chris From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 05:31:30 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:31:30 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <00083020233902.10806@joachim> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000830222014.00a5e820@mail.dancris.com> At 08:23 PM 8/30/2000 +0000, Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > The implementation appends the new entry to the end of the datafile. > > Lot's of editing will produce a bigger and bigger data file. > >Oh! This is not so good. >Can't we make it real functional by adding support to write keys somewhere in >the text? Otherwise lots of things won't work (e.g. console indexer etc.). In >the worst case the text of Genesis 1:1 is at the end of te module! As long as all text reads are done by using the indexes, vss, for each verse and not off of some custom index, all verses should read like before. I think it best for other indexes to index a verse by indexing the vss record for the verse. I'm just trying to get my feet wet on this. So just my 2 cents for what it is worth. Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 05:35:29 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:35:29 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <39AD74E0.7C5DBEF1@crosswire.org> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000830223414.00a5d870@mail.dancris.com> At 01:56 PM 8/30/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >Have a look at vpl2mod. This uses a few new functions that I've pushed >back into the API like: I know I should know this, but how do I find that file. :-) Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 07:08:51 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 00:08:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000830213218.00a57170@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: No, the bks and cps files don't get used at all. The data for the KJV's bks and cps files is contained in a static array (it's in the canon.h file). It's simpler to implement, but it requires that all your modules have the same number of verses per chapter per book. That's why we only support KJV verse numbering. Even when bks/cps files are available, the static arrays get used, though it would be cool to add support for reading the files if present for more versatility. --Chris On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Jerry Hastings wrote: > I am not sure I follow you. I know the files are not used in the end > product. But, don't you still compile the indexes into the binary? If you > don't have the data in some form what are you using to point into vss? > > Jerry > > At 01:46 PM 8/29/2000 -0700, you wrote: > > >The bks and cps files don't actually get used at the moment by sword, but > >it might be nice if we could implement support for them if they are > >present. With basic KJV verse mapped translations, the speed increase > >gained by keeping those arrays static in memory is probably worth the > >space in memory. > > > >--Chris > From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 08:49:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:49:48 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> <4.2.0.58.20000830223414.00a5d870@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <39AE1C2C.92590705@crosswire.org> Jerry, It's in the latest CVS tree. To use CVS, grab a nice GUI tool like winCVS (http://www.wincvs.org) and check out the sword module from our anonymous cvs server via instructions from wincvs and our cvs info on the dev site. Then, when you have the source, look in the directory: sword/utilities for a file called vpl2mod.cpp Hope this helps. CVS can have a learning curve, at first, but afterward it is a nice way to always keep you local copy of the source in sync with the most current work, and to submit bug fixes, etc. -Troy. PS. It might be helpful to others for you to update our CVS info on the dev page as you learn how to check out the code from a cvs newbie perspective (at least, I'm assuming that you've not used CVS before). Jerry Hastings wrote: > > At 01:56 PM 8/30/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > > >Have a look at vpl2mod. This uses a few new functions that I've pushed > >back into the API like: > > I know I should know this, but how do I find that file. :-) > > Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 16:55:30 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:55:30 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000830213218.00a57170@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000831092041.00a5b870@mail.dancris.com> Right, the files don't get used. But VerseKey::otbks[], VerseKey::otcpss[], VerseKey::ntbks[] and VerseKey::ntcps[] in canon.h are the data of the *.bks and *.cps files reduced to record numbers instead of offset bytes--the same data divided by four for *bks[] and divided by six for *cps[]. Your Idea of looking for files to use if present would make it ease to support other verse systems. You could even have more than one set of indexes for a given translation. The Douay could have dr_ot.bks, dr_ot.cps and can_ot.bks, can_ot.cps. The dr* files could map native dr verse references while the can* files could map KJV style references. Using the dr files one could have access to non-canonical books. And references from KJV based commentaries could correctly locate canonical verses by the can* files. Jerry At 12:08 AM 8/31/2000 -0700, Chris Little wrote: >No, the bks and cps files don't get used at all. The data for the KJV's >bks and cps files is contained in a static array (it's in the canon.h >file). It's simpler to implement, but it requires that all your modules >have the same number of verses per chapter per book. That's why we only >support KJV verse numbering. Even when bks/cps files are available, the >static arrays get used, though it would be cool to add support for reading >the files if present for more versatility. > >--Chris From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 11:38:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Trevor Jenkins) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:38:47 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas Message-ID: On Wednesday, 30 August, 2000 08:36:48, Nathan wrote: > There seems to be quite an interest in the fast > index searching, so I thought I would write up > some of my ideas. Maybe you can use this as > discussion points, disagree, improve, change it > or ignore it. :-) Having an interest in this I'll chime in with comments. I've been putting a separate proposal together as and when my CFS allows. (For those who don't know or have forgotten I worked on such document indexing systems for 20 years.) Anyone wanting to get to grips with the underlying concepts I'd recommend the excellent text "Managing Gigabytes" by Witten, Moffat and Bell. The second edition was published late last year by Morgan Kaufman. > Step 1. Building the wordlist > > The first thing to do is get a list of all the > words in the file. This means reading through > each verse/paragraph and identifying each word. There are some oddities in the Bible text. For example, paragraphs that are split across verses, verses that contain the end of one paragraph and the start of the next, verses that include complete sentences, sentences that cover several verses. Such issues become important for colocation searches (e.g. within sentence, within verse, within paragraph, within N words of, word adjacency). > This is fairly easy, as one can just convert > all punctuation characters to spaces, and then > get a list of the remaining words. But then you'll loose colocation. > Keep in mind other languages have many other accented > characters, that you do not see those as > punctuation! Doesn't that go without saying? :-) > Also keep the ' in mind e.g. "isn't" > is a valid word (else you chop it into "isn" and "t"). The scanning phase could have rules that help distinguish this. Of course, what one wants is for "isn't" to be indexed as the two (adjacent) words "is not". [Note the importance of colocation.] > Also convert the words to lower case. You can > always check for case sensitive or insensitive > at run-time (once you have found the verse/paragraph). There are very few instances where case needs to be considered. Some "commercial" competitors of Sword distinguish between words like LORD and lord making it very difficult to find passages that one does not remember the typographic conventions used in a particular translation. > You might want to do some "stemming" (reducing the > number of words) by removing all words ending > with 's. You might want to do more stemming > e.g. removing the "-ly" at the end of words, or > eliminating plurals (most ending with "s") A lot > depends on your final view. Most times you will > want to give the person searching both the singular > and plural of a word, without them having to worry > about specifying both. There is plenty of work one > can do here. There are some languages (and English is one of them) where conjugation of verbs cannot be handled by a simple stemming scheme as you describe. When working with other Latin languages (eg Finnish) there are real problems with this. > Step 2. The concordance > > The format of the concordance can be in any of the > 3 methods that Joe described (use the best method > for that specific word). > 1. A list of pointers to the verse/paragraph: ... > 2. A range list: ... > 3. A "bitmap": ... Because most words occur more than once even within a single verse/sentence/paragraph you can compress the position pointers to indictate that the terms appear are in the same V/S/P as one another. > PS. Make sure the wordlist is sorted. It speeds > things up (about 8 times in most cases). Data structures 101 will have informed you that searching a sorted list has O(n/2). Hash tables, with a well chosen hash function, appraoch O(1). > Step 3. The search > Expressions: Here some parsing is needed. This is when > the person asks > e.g. "((Jesus and Son) not Father) or Christ*" > The expression will have to be parsed, Yes but not > e.g. into BNF, One could express the search language in BNF but what you probably meant was RPN (reverse polish notation) > The NOT part is the difficult one here :) Do you consider NOT to be monadic or diadic? > Proximity: This is when you want to have some words, but > they can span +/- 5 verses. You know the words are > close together, but not in the same verse/paragraph. > This is obviously more difficult, and that is why few > programs have it. I have not looked at this as yet either. > Just mentioning it here for completeness. As might be guessed from my earlier comments this is an area that I have given a lot of thought to what is involved. :-) > Other languages: Something To think about as well is to make > it easier for people searching other languages. This would > imply that people could type in "seen" and get "seën". > (Afrikaans word for "bless"). Sort of accent-insensitive. > Helps a lot with languages that have many accents. This is similar to the stemming problems I mentioned above. (The commercial system I worked on had a special "morphological analysis" module to deal with this issue.) > Natural language queries: e.g. "Where in the Bible can I > read the 10 Commandments?" Skip this for now... I see this as a separate layer between the user interface and the search expressions. > Spelling mistakes: If a word is not found, I was thinking > on using a "soundex" type routine to get the nearest words > to it. (soundex will associate "kayotik" with "chaotic") > I don't know if soundex is the correct one. There are better > routines. (Might even use something like PPM they use with > natural language queries.) Then suggest an alternative to > the person. Probably the best one is NYSIIS rather than Soundex. But where are the spelling mistakes coming from? Hopefully never the text but rather finger trouble on the part of the user. For the former I say clean up the text for the latter I say do nothing :-| let them note their mistake and take corrective action themselves (retyping the correct terms or using wildcards). > You need to look at this, especially with the way people > spell "color" vs. "colour", etc. The KJV uses "colour". > (I could throw in some flame-bait here about > "proper" English ) Thou shalt not. :-) > Step 4. Ranking Hate it. Don't like it. Never use it. Precision/recall studies haven't demonstrated that ranking really works (for the end-user). > The ranking is then done on a "majority rules" method. > The verse with the most occurrences get the top spot. > A better method would be to look at > 1. The book/chapter with the most hits > 2. Then the verse with the most hits. Moffat/Witten/Bell discuss various weighing schemes. As you can see I'm no fan of ranking so I leave it as an exercise to the reader (of MWB) to decide what scheme might be appropriate. > Step 5. Optionally compressing the text > > Because all searching is basically done in the index, > the text does not have to be in uncompressed format > any more, and can be compressed. When a verse needs to > be displayed on the screen, it is uncompressed on the > fly and then displayed. This way you can get the entire > KJV plus index in just over 2 Mb. With full colocation information (in a compressed index file) one can do away with the text completely. Okay so there is more work to be done when displaying the text but it's an option. > I thought these verses were sort of applicable... :) You forgot one: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11 AV. :-) Regards, Trevor British Sign Language is not inarticulate handwaving; it's a living language. So recognise it now. -- <>< Re: deemed! From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 17:28:04 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:28:04 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale In-Reply-To: <39AD79F0.8C3183CE@crosswire.org> References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <00083017214100.10732@joachim> <39AD79F0.8C3183CE@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00083117280401.00276@joachim> Troy, thank you for your answer. It showed that somehow my compile lb was screwed up. It linked but worked incorrectly. I did "make clean; make" now it does work again. --Joachim > > "parsekey Ps de" does output nothing > > [troy@charis tests]$ ./parsekey Ps de > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > [troy@charis tests]$ > > "keycast Genesis 1:4 de" does output 1. Mose 1:1, but it should be 1. > > Mose 1:4 > > [troy@charis tests]$ ./keycast "Genesis 1:4" de > 1. Mose 1:4 > [troy@charis tests]$ > > :) > > Make sure you don't have anything in /usr/include/sword or > /usr/lib/libsword* > And be sure to do a: > make clean > make > > >from the top level directory. > > Hope this helps. > > -Troy. > > > With not locale support it works. > > > > --Joachim > > > > > Joachim, > > > Tried a lookup with > > > > > > test/parsekey Ps de > > > > > > It returns: > > > > > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > > > > > Seems like it works correctly. > > > > > > > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > > > > > :) > > > > > > -Troy. > > > > > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr > > > > changes of the lookup string. > > > > > > > > For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, > > > > but Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD > > > > releases. Is this a problem witht the changes of the locale support > > > > you mentioned? > > > > > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 20:24:32 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:24:32 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <39AE1C2C.92590705@crosswire.org> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> <4.2.0.58.20000830223414.00a5d870@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000831130746.00a60390@mail.dancris.com> At 01:49 AM 8/31/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >Jerry, > It's in the latest CVS tree. To use CVS, grab a nice GUI tool like >winCVS (http://www.wincvs.org) and check out the sword module from our >anonymous cvs server via instructions from wincvs and our cvs info on >the dev site. Then, when you have the source, look in the directory: >sword/utilities for a file called vpl2mod.cpp OK, got it working. I was hoping there was a working binary. But at least Cvs is set up now. >PS. It might be helpful to others for you to update our CVS info on the >dev page as you learn how to check out the code from a cvs newbie >perspective (at least, I'm assuming that you've not used CVS before). Yes, newbie. As long as people are sharing their favorite Bible/software metaphors, here is one for good documentation. Jer 33.3 "Call to me, and I will answer you, and will show you great things, and difficult, which you don't know." WEB :-) Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 20:39:57 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:39:57 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c0138b$9ffaa780$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Hello, Good, at least my bit of writing got some response Trevor Jenkins wrote: > (For those who don't know or have forgotten I worked on > such document indexing systems for 20 years.) I'm definitely the amateur. :) Been playing with it for a few years, but not worked with it. > Anyone wanting to get to grips with the underlying concepts > I'd recommend the excellent text "Managing Gigabytes" by Witten, > Moffat and Bell. The second edition was published late last > year by Morgan Kaufman. One sees their names pop up all over when you read about this topic, esp. in the research papers. > There are some oddities in the Bible text. For example, paragraphs > that are split across verses, verses that contain the end of one > paragraph and the start of the next, verses that include complete > sentences, sentences that cover several verses. Such issues become > important for colocation searches (e.g. within sentence, within verse, > within paragraph, within N words of, word adjacency). You are definitely taking it a few steps further than I did. I did not think about that level. > There are very few instances where case needs to be considered. > Some "commercial" competitors of Sword distinguish between words like > LORD and lord making it very difficult to find passages that one does > not remember the typographic conventions used in a particular translation. I fully agree! > There are some languages (and English is one of them) where > conjugation of verbs cannot be handled by a simple stemming scheme as > you describe. When working with other Latin languages (eg Finnish) > there are real problems with this. There are plenty of examples one can think about where any program will just make a mess of it. -ly: Take "early" -- The program will "stem" it to "ear", which is wrong. Just the simple -s at the back can give problems, deciding whether it is a plural word or not, and what the singular form is. I was thinking about a "manual" scheme. The KJV has about 12650 words. One only needs a few people going through the complete list, associating words with one another. Such work can be done because in the case of the Bible you have a limited number of words, that stays fixed. That's what I meant by "There is plenty of work one can do here." Do you think a manual method would work? The problem probably is having words with multiple meanings. Here Hebrew is worse than Finnish or most others. Concerning the other languages; Absolutely. It is very difficult. And certainly not for a generic program to do. I would say probably impossible for Hebrew. In Afrikaans and Dutch you can however write some successful routines. >> Step 2. The concordance >> The format of the concordance can be in any of the >> 3 methods... >> 1. A list of pointers to the verse/paragraph: ... >> 2. A range list: ... >> 3. A "bitmap": ... > Because most words occur more than once even within a > single verse/sentence/paragraph you can compress the position > pointers to indictate that the terms appear are in the > same V/S/P as one another. Could you explain this some more please? > Yes but not >> e.g. into BNF, > One could express the search language in BNF but what you > probably meant was RPN (reverse polish notation) Oops! Yes, RPN. >> The NOT part is the difficult one here :) > Do you consider NOT to be monadic or diadic? When applied to the "bitmap", it "inverses" it, so then it is monadic. It is in evaluating the search expression that it becomes more tricky. >> Proximity: ... > As might be guessed from my earlier comments this is an > area that I have given a lot of thought to what is involved. :-) I would gladly learn some more about this. This where I believe the real value of powerful searching can come in. >> Spelling mistakes: ... > But where are the spelling mistakes coming from? The user. See my example about "color" vs. "colour", which is probably not strictly a spelling mistake? (Depends on if you speak "proper" English ) > Thou shalt not. :-) Oops, ... >> Step 4. Ranking... > Hate it. Don't like it. Never use it. Precision/recall studies > haven't demonstrated that ranking really works (for the end-user). In the spiritual a "majority rules" method does not work either. That's why the Bible speaks about a "Kingdom" (One that rules) Many times the Scripture you are searching for is the one without the repetition of words. Also with Scripture the person searching has an idea of roughly where in the Bible it is expected. Ranking would just confuse that "gut feel" they have. >> Step 5. Optionally compressing the text > With full colocation information (in a compressed index file) one can do > away with the text completely. Okay so there is more work to be done when > displaying the text but it's an option. Is it strictly speaking still an "index file" in that case? :) Just for interest sake: What are your ideas on the format of such a file? I haven't really thought about taking the collocation information along as well. But for proximity searching one would need it... God bless, nathan From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 21:02:24 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:02:24 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <39AE1C2C.92590705@crosswire.org> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> <4.2.0.58.20000830223414.00a5d870@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000831134736.00a5e640@mail.dancris.com> At 01:49 AM 8/31/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >PS. It might be helpful to others for you to update our CVS info on the >dev page as you learn how to check out the code from a cvs newbie >perspective (at least, I'm assuming that you've not used CVS before). While we are thinking about the dev page, how do most people first find it? We are talking about: http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/ aren't we? From the Sword home page the dev link does not link to the above page. (Not that you want it too, with those keys on there.) From the mailing list link one can get on the list but there is no other dev info there. Do people get info when the subscribe to the list? I don't remember. Some of the above page is out dated. I can redo it. Is there anything more than CVS info people would like to see? Anyone feel free to reply. Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 21:15:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Brandon Staggs) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:15:47 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas References: <000201c0138b$9ffaa780$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: <000f01c01390$b45a2980$6501a8c0@bmoney> > >> Proximity: ... > > As might be guessed from my earlier comments this is an > > area that I have given a lot of thought to what is involved. :-) > > I would gladly learn some more about this. This where I believe > the real value of powerful searching can come in. For what it's worth, proximity searching where the users says "these words within X verses of each other" should be fairly trivial to implement, once you have your bitmaps set. All you have to do is instead of ANDing the two bitmaps (if they are searching for two words) is iterate through each position, then look for a corresponding position in the other maps within X positions. Then set up a new bitmap and flip all the bits in that range True where necessary. If you want to offer "within X words" or "within X sentences" or "within X paragraphs" or whathaveyou then you need to get more complex and pick up that _Managing Gigabytes_ book. But the reality is that most people are fine doing a simple AND search within verses, and this is by far the greatest use of the searching funtion in Bible software. -Brandon From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 23:22:10 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:22:10 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] sword_vss_browser_win.zip In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000830211838.00a58460@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000831161858.00a59ef0@mail.dancris.com> At 09:25 PM 8/30/2000 -0700, Jerry Hastings wrote: >I upload the source for that vss index browser. You will need to compile >it with VB. http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/JH/sword_vss_ browser_win.zip From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 23:24:23 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (David Burry) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:24:23 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas In-Reply-To: <000f01c01390$b45a2980$6501a8c0@bmoney> References: <000201c0138b$9ffaa780$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000831150628.00e588e0@130.248.127.106> At 11:15 AM 8/31/2000 -1000, Brandon Staggs wrote: >> >> Proximity: ... >> > As might be guessed from my earlier comments this is an >> > area that I have given a lot of thought to what is involved. :-) >> >> I would gladly learn some more about this. This where I believe >> the real value of powerful searching can come in. > >For what it's worth, proximity searching where the users says "these words >within X verses of each other" should be fairly trivial to implement, once >you have your bitmaps set. All you have to do is instead of ANDing the two >bitmaps (if they are searching for two words) is iterate through each >position, then look for a corresponding position in the other maps within X >positions. Then set up a new bitmap and flip all the bits in that range True >where necessary. What if you use bit shifts of one word's bitmap to create a proximity mask, then AND that proximity mask with the original bitmap of the other word to get proximity matches? Just that bitwise operations should in theory be much faster than interating/scanning looking for something. I'm still not sure of the quickest way to do bitwise operations on very large bitmaps (say, 100K for a bitmap of every word-proximity instance of a certain word in the Bible instead of the smaller 4K one required for just verse operations), but I'll read the book, I'll read the book! ;o) >If you want to offer "within X words" or "within X sentences" or "within X >paragraphs" or whathaveyou then you need to get more complex and pick up >that _Managing Gigabytes_ book. Just ordered! Thank you all very much! >But the reality is that most people are fine doing a simple AND search >within verses, and this is by far the greatest use of the searching funtion >in Bible software. True, but I'm interested in doing much more as soon as I learn how to make it fast and efficient... ;o) Dave From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 1 04:08:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:08:40 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] unsubscribe Message-ID: <39864D48.C354F2C8@attglobal.net> From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 1 04:10:07 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:10:07 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] (no subject) Message-ID: <39864D9F.5E910BA2@attglobal.net> unsubscribe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 1 19:25:41 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Aaron Smith) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:25:41 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] website Message-ID: <000a01bffbee$679576e0$85adfea9@isaiah> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFBF6.A9D1F8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I'm just finishing of a web site I have built for the church I = attended and would like to know if it would be OK to upload a copy of = the windows version of sword to this site....? Aaron ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFBF6.A9D1F8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi I'm just finishing of a web site I have built for = the=20 church I attended and would like to know if it would be OK to upload a = copy of=20 the windows version of sword to this site....?
Aaron
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFBF6.A9D1F8A0-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 1 22:58:34 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 15:58:34 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] website References: <000a01bffbee$679576e0$85adfea9@isaiah> Message-ID: <3987561A.6125184E@crosswire.org> Of course. Please do. Please feel free to build a custom install, also, if you wish. The current installer lends itself to easily including a few modules along with the software install, if you think this might be more useful than a 'software-only' install. -Troy. > Aaron Smith wrote: > > Hi I'm just finishing of a web site I have built for the church I > attended and would like to know if it would be OK to upload a copy of > the windows version of sword to this site....? > Aaron From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 3 17:25:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Matthias Ansorg) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:25:48 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] General Book Support Message-ID: <00080320040302.00198@matthias> Hi all, I realized that it's impossible to put all (my) biblical studies into commentaries, because some deal with topics or questions. IMHO, there's good reason to implement general book support for such topical texts into SWORD (without creating bloatware by implementing ordinary HTML browsing capabilities): -- in religious topical works there are many references to the bible. The easier it is to look them up, the more will the reader do that and the deeper will his studies be. The easiest way would be to click on a link (and optionally choosing context width and version from a popup menu). This could be implemented in SWORD. -- cross-referencing to other topical documents would be helpful -- on the BibleTime mailing list they discussed a feature for writing sermons. If SWORD provided general book support and possibilities to write these books, all frontends would have access to sermons written in BibleTime and no proprietary standard would be defined. -- when doing biblical studies on a subject, an editor for SWORD's general book support would be helpful (copying bible verses or verse references, making references with drag&drop etc.). -- if even text on biblical topics could be SWORD modules, it is possible to create a general library of Christian literature for SWORD, integrating _all_ availabe Christian literature. As it's impossible to transfer the current SWORD indexed module format to general book format, I'd suggest to use normal ThML documents for the lattter. There are great possibilities for interchange (with CCEL etc.), web publication (presenting ThML as HTML is quite easy) and digital books / libraries (as this is the purpose ThML was designed for). I know that it's not that polite to make request a feature without implementing it. So take it as suggestion 8^) In Christ, -- Matthias <>< From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 3 19:19:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Matthias Ansorg) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:19:03 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <00080321320205.00198@matthias> Use BibleTime to show up Malachi 3:1, then use the button »next chapter«. Use BibleTime to show up Malachi 4:1, then use the button »previous chapter«. Use BibleTime and type in Matthew 0:1 Use BibleTime and type in the verse Malachi 4:1. In all these cases BibleTime shows up Revelation 4:1 in the verse box, but Malachi 4 as the text. Just my $0.02 to optimize SWORD. May God bless your work! --Matthias <>< From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 3 16:07:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Matthias Ansorg) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:07:31 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Doctrinal Statement In-Reply-To: <20000729.102346.-466617.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> References: <20000729.102346.-466617.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> Message-ID: <00080318582100.00198@matthias> Hi all, I know that my comment on this issue is quite late, but I had no internet access for the last weeks. Chris Little wrote: >>> I do think we should make it clear, however, to our users what >>> material is Christian and what is not through labelling. Geoffrey Hastings wrote: >> Maybe the place to put this kind of information would be in the >> help contents under the modules section. A section on module >> background information. Then if the module discription warranted a >> paragraph you could have a whole paragraph. You could then include >> information about the author/authors and their backgrounds, beliefs >> and other works they may have done. >> As far as downloading the modules. Other sections could be added >> to the Crosswire site and clearly labled as to what they are for >> those who >wished to download them. ie. Non-Christian Topics and >> Reference Works. Darwin Gregory wrote: > I would like to suggest even expanding this concept. Let's take it > a step further. I think it would be helpful for novices to have a > method for determining which commentaries come from which angles etc. > This could be a lengthy process to define the categories, but could > be extremely useful in the long run. > The categorization would be partly based on the opinion of the > distributor, but could be helpful. I like this concept that Chris, Darwin and Geoffrey developed, too. As for me, it would have be extremely helpful to know the doctrinal direction of a commentary before downloading and using it for preparations for bible lessons etc. (to know if it's biblical coorrect what I download). Let's go into the technical details. The SWORD design of the modules includes in each module (for bibles and commentaries) the sections »module intro«, »testament intro« for OT and NT and »chapter intro« for each chapter, but all these are unused up to now. So I would rather suggest to put the background information (doctrinal direction, type of document, author, author's biography, ...) into the module itself (»module intro«) instead of the crosswire homepage. Advantages: -- frontend access to the module background information -- the user doesn't have to manage his modules and the background information separately, only the modules. You don't need to add a extra file to the module distribution and solve the issue within the current SWORD design. -- a cgi script could be used to extract the module background information from a module and display it on the crosswire homepage. That way, the user can evaluate a module before downloading (as Geoffrey suggested) and the effort for upating a module's background information is small (update the module, you don't need to update the corresponding web page, too). With love in Christ Jesus, -- Matthias From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 5 02:57:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (David A. Keller) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:57:40 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] PDA front-ends Message-ID: <398B82A4.3FC55168@perigee.net> Has anyone developed an architecture or software for handhelds to use the Sword libraries? I am interested in working on such a project. I have some experience in developing software on the EPOC and PalmOS platforms. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 5 17:14:38 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:14:38 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? Message-ID: <00080513144101.00831@one.net> Hello, I noticed that in the recent discussions, adding the books of the apocrypha was mentioned. i see that the GBF spec allows for them. How would someone go about adding these for use in Bibletime? Is there a file to create the necessary .vss file, like gbfidx for the nt and ot files (or is there a secret option for gbfidx, like "gbfidx apoc apoc")? Also, isn't the Book of Enoch considered to be part of the Apocrypha (especially since it's quoted in Jude)? Why isn't it listed in the GBF spec? I'd especially like to get that book in a readable form for Bibletime, so I can search for passages, etc. Can anyone help me out? May Yahweh bless you! -- At your service, J. Solomon Kostelnik [Philippians 2:5-12] From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 5 18:12:18 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 12:12:18 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: <00080513144101.00831@one.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000805120609.00b207d0@ebible.org> At 01:14 PM 8/5/00 -0400, roz@one.net wrote: >... >Also, isn't the Book of Enoch considered to be part of the Apocrypha >(especially since it's quoted in Jude)? No. > Why isn't it listed in the GBF spec? Only the Apocryphal/Deuterocanonical Books recognized by any of the Roman Catholic, Greek, and Slavonic Bibles are listed in the GBF specification. If you want to include any other book, it should be done as a generic book, not a Bible or Apocrypha book. _______ Michael Paul Johnson mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 5 23:54:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:54:31 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Open book unlocking system (was Re: Module verification, was Re: [sword-devel] DoctrinalStatement) In-Reply-To: <398398C6.6AB81D25@bigfoot.com> References: <20000727.164437.-316621.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> <4.2.0.58.20000727224340.00a35a00@mail.dancris.com> <4.2.0.58.20000728222758.00a3ae00@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000805164627.00a3f260@mail.dancris.com> Sorry this reply has taken so long. It looks like this is the kind of thing that X.509 is for. I think it would be a great way to start working out security. I didn't see anyone jumping on the idea to get it done though. Perhaps if a rough draft of a Sword implementation was created others may take it up. Jerry At 12:53 PM 7/30/2000 +1000, Paul Gear wrote: >Glad you asked, Jerry. :-) I've been thinking about this issue for >some time. I started to prepare a long and involved message about how i >envisaged it working, but i realised that it would probably prove >incomprehensible to just about everyone but me. So let me give a brief >overview, and we can go into more detail later. > > >It seems to me that there are several problems we could solve with one >piece of technology: > 1. Encrypted modules. > 2. Verification of modules. > 3. Point-of-sale type unlocking with which commercial publishers >would be happy. >The technology i'm thinking of here is OpenSSL, the free software >library for implementing X.509 PKI functionality. > > >Here is an overview of the components of my proposed solution: > >1. Modules are encrypted using a single key, by a symmetric cipher (as >they are now), preferably with a fairly small key length, for >performance reasons. (What length do we use at the moment?) > >2. Modules are signed with the distributor's digital signature. This >allows module verification with cryptographic checksums. A root >certificate authority key would need to be embedded in the software >distributions (like Netscape and IE do). More detailed verification >parameters (as suggested above by Jerry) could be added to the >certificate to verify the text if the checksum verification fails. > >3. Unlocking a book involves creating an SSL connection to an unlock >server, generating a one-time asymmetric key at the client, and the >server encrypting the module's symmetric key to that asymmetric key. >The application stores this asymmetrically encrypted version of the >module key. > >4. Reading a locked book involves decrypting the module key and using >it to decrypt the book. > > >What this would require of application software: > >1. Embedded keys for the root certificate authorities. We could use >existing ones on the Internet, or create our own, which would be cheaper >(i.e. free :-). > >2. Linking with OpenSSL to do module checksumming and decryption. > >3. Code to generate, save, and restore unlock keys. > >4. User interface hooks for: viewing certificates, verifying modules, >and unlocking books. > >5. Client-server code for talking to the server during module >unlocking. There would need to be a way of allowing manual web or phone >unlocks as well. > > >There are some problems with this proposal, one being that there is no >obscurity, so anybody with the know-how would be able to write a program >to decrypt the modules using OpenSSL. I have a few ideas for overcoming >this, but it needs to be something which does not compromise our >commitment to GPL-ed code. > >The other problem is who is going to do it? This would be a rather >large undertaking. I would love to do it, but i don't have the time. I >would jump at the chance to quit my job to work on this sort of stuff, >but who would pay for it? Know anyone who'd like to invest a bit of >venture capital? 8^) > > >I've copied this to Bob@Logos (although hopefully your mail filters >would have flagged this message anyway, Bob :-) and Bible-Linux, hoping >that others might be interested in working on a standard that we could >all use. Are there others who we could get together with on this? >Maybe the guys at Theophilos? > >I know Logos already has a system to do all of this, Bob, but it is a >possible solution for working together with us (as we discussed some >time ago on the Bible-Linux list), and it would allow you to upgrade to >a system using real encryption. (Of course, you could do that anyway, >but it would be nice if we could do something together. ;-) > > >Well, what think ye? > > >Paul >--------- >"He must become greater; i must become less." - John 3:30 >http://www.bigfoot.com/~paulgear From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 05:46:10 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 22:46:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: <00080513144101.00831@one.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 roz@one.net wrote: > i see that the GBF spec allows for them. How would someone go about adding > these for use in Bibletime? Is there a file to create the necessary .vss file, > like gbfidx for the nt and ot files (or is there a secret option for gbfidx, > like "gbfidx apoc apoc")? SWORD doesn't really comply fully with the GBF spec, just the markup aspects of it. Adding Apocrypha support should be fairly trivial, it's just that none of SWORD's contributors seem to have made it a priority yet--though we certainly seem to get a lot of requests. > Also, isn't the Book of Enoch considered to be part of the Apocrypha > (especially since it's quoted in Jude)? Why isn't it listed in the GBF spec? > I'd especially like to get that book in a readable form for Bibletime, so I can > search for passages, etc. As MPJ mentioned, the Apocrypha generally only includes the Catholic Deuterocanonical books. Ethiopic Enoch is usually classified among the Pseudepigrapha. Whether we would handle such works like we do Bibles or as General Books is kind of a toss up. Perhaps, ideally we could make a General Book class where modules carried their own indexing formats with them. For example, some books might just support lookups by chapter--like your average novel. A collection of Pseudepigrapha might support lookups in the book "chapter:verse format" like biblical lookups. And (something I'd be quite interested in seeing) the works of Josephus could be queried by their standard "work book.chapter.verse" (e.g. Antiquities 1.2.3) format. --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 10:35:55 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Don A. Elbourne Jr.) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 05:35:55 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401bfff92$19d598c0$a7830e18@mcity1.la.home.com> > Whether we would handle such works like we do Bibles or as General Books > is kind of a toss up. Perhaps, ideally we could make a General Book > class where modules carried their own indexing formats with them. For > example, some books might just support lookups by chapter--like your > average novel. A collection of Pseudepigrapha might support lookups in > the book "chapter:verse format" like biblical lookups. And (something I'd > be quite interested in seeing) the works of Josephus could be queried by > their standard "work book.chapter.verse" (e.g. Antiquities 1.2.3) format. > > > --Chris Little > I think this is a great idea. I've been lurking on this list a while and there seems to be some opposition to open the Sword Project up to general works and I still have not put my finger on why this is. I for one would love to have the stuff from CCEL and other places available in a tightly integrated searchable interface. Since I'm not a programmer I probably ought to keep my mouth shut. :-) But I would be capable and willing to mark up texts in ThML for use in the Sword Project. Don A. Elbourne Jr. http://elbourne.simplenet.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 20:43:42 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 16:43:42 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <01BFFFC5.79F060E0@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFC5.79F060E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try typing in "Phil" in Bibletime... it brings up Hebrews! :) If you type "Phili" then it goes to Philippians. 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Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:05:22 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? Message-ID: <01BFFFC8.81577DC0@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFC8.8160A580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If SWORD supports the markup aspect, then all we'd need is a program to = create the necessary verse-lookup? (.vss) file for the Apocrypha. Does = such an animal exist? :) Since it doesn't fully comply with GBF, that would explain why I can't = get a valid .vss to build with the Hebrew Names Version, which is = written in GBF. It dies out around Romans 15, even though it looks to = be formatted correctly (?). Hopefully someone will add support for "General" books! :) Solomon http://w3.one.net/~roz/ Silver '95 Camaro Z28 M6 "As though we could kill Time without injuring Eternity..." -Thoreau -----Original Message----- From: chrislit@www.crosswire.org [SMTP:chrislit@www.crosswire.org] Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 2:00 AM To: SWORD Development List Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 roz@one.net wrote: > i see that the GBF spec allows for them. How would someone go about = adding > these for use in Bibletime? Is there a file to create the necessary = .vss file, > like gbfidx for the nt and ot files (or is there a secret option for = gbfidx, > like "gbfidx apoc apoc")? SWORD doesn't really comply fully with the GBF spec, just the markup aspects of it. Adding Apocrypha support should be fairly trivial, it's just that none of SWORD's contributors seem to have made it a priority yet--though we certainly seem to get a lot of requests. =20 > Also, isn't the Book of Enoch considered to be part of the Apocrypha > (especially since it's quoted in Jude)? Why isn't it listed in the = GBF spec?=20 > I'd especially like to get that book in a readable form for Bibletime, = so I can > search for passages, etc. As MPJ mentioned, the Apocrypha generally only includes the Catholic Deuterocanonical books. Ethiopic Enoch is usually classified among the Pseudepigrapha. Whether we would handle such works like we do Bibles or as General Books is kind of a toss up. Perhaps, ideally we could make a General Book class where modules carried their own indexing formats with them. For example, some books might just support lookups by chapter--like your average novel. A collection of Pseudepigrapha might support lookups in the book "chapter:verse format" like biblical lookups. And (something = I'd be quite interested in seeing) the works of Josephus could be queried by their standard "work book.chapter.verse" (e.g. Antiquities 1.2.3) = format. --Chris Little ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFC8.8160A580 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhUVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA2AEAAAEAAAARAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHN3b3JkLWRldmVsQGNy b3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAU01UUABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAaAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwAAAAMAFQwBAAAA AwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABwAAAAnc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZycAAgELMAEAAAAf AAAAU01UUDpTV09SRC1ERVZFTEBDUk9TU1dJUkUuT1JHAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAwBxOgAA AAAeAPZfAQAAABoAAABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAgH3XwEAAABRAAAAAAAA AIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwBTTVRQAHN3b3Jk 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=_NextPart_000_01BFFFC8.8160A580-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 21:07:52 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:07:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation In-Reply-To: <01BFFFC5.79F060E0@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: It's not a bug, it's a feature! No, I'm serious. :) "Phil" is interpreted as Philemon by SWORD. If you want Philippians, try using "Php" or "Phili" (or anything else longer than "Phil"). The reason it's giving you Hebrews is that you're asking for a verse beyond the chapter/vereses of Philemon, so it's going into the next book. (Also a feature, not a bug, that can be helpful at times.) -Chris Little On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: > Try typing in "Phil" in Bibletime... it brings up Hebrews! :) If you type "Phili" then it goes to Philippians. > > Solomon From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 6 21:26:29 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:26:29 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFCB.754BA940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable haha, a feature. :) Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, = not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is = unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come = on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) Solomon ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFCB.754BA940 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih4VAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA2AEAAAEAAAARAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHN3b3JkLWRldmVsQGNy b3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAU01UUABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAaAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwAAAAMAFQwBAAAA AwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABwAAAAnc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZycAAgELMAEAAAAf AAAAU01UUDpTV09SRC1ERVZFTEBDUk9TU1dJUkUuT1JHAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAwBxOgAA AAAeAPZfAQAAABoAAABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAgH3XwEAAABRAAAAAAAA AIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwBTTVRQAHN3b3Jk LWRldmVsQGNyb3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAAAAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAKQ agEEgAEAQAAAAFJFOiBbc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxdIGJ1ZyBpbiBTV09SRCdzIGJpYmxlIHN0cnVjdHVy ZSByZXByZXNlbnRhdGlvbgD1FgEFgAMADgAAANAHCAAGABEAGgAcAAAALAEBIIADAA4AAADQBwgA BgARABgAMgAAAEABAQmAAQAhAAAAMzZDMTVEOTNCMzZCRDQxMUIxMkMwMEMwRjAxMDc3QkYAEQcB A5AGAOQEAAAiAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAA AAAAQAA5AEAupvvs/78BHgBwAAEAAABAAAAAUkU6IFtzd29yZC1kZXZlbF0gYnVnIGluIFNXT1JE J3MgYmlibGUgc3RydWN0dXJlIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG//+z7ppNdwTdr sxHUsSwAwPAQd78AAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAMAAAAcm96QG9uZS5uZXQA AwAGEMfjmcEDAAcQ7QAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhBSEEsQUZFQVRVUkU6KVdFTEwsVEhBVFNPRERU SEVHRU5FUkFMQUNDRVBURURBQkJSRVZJQVRJT05PRlBISUxFTU9OSVNQSE0sTk9UUEhJTFdIT0NI QU5HRURJVD86KUFORFcAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACXAQAAkwEAAAACAABMWkZ17c/UtT8ACgEDAfcCpAPj AgBjaMEKwHNldDAgBxMCg8cAUALyD0lUYWgDcQKAJn0KgAjIIDsJbzI1ljUCgAqBdgiQd2sLgLRk NAxgYwBQCwNjAEGBC2BuZzEwMzMLpgYgD3APcCwgYSBmCGVhdAhwZS4gOg4pCqIKhAqAV2VsbGUX YHQPcHQnBCAEcGTDGBARkGhlIGcJ8ASQ4wdAF3BjY2UFMAmAF3DcYmIJcBSgF8BpAiAZ0NBmIFBo AxBlBGADoMsEAByBbRdgbm8FQBySdRoRVxHAIA9hFjAbYWksdD8YIRogQRUAIHfsaHkfwAhgbB7y GWELgEJrGWMgMToxHRJ1/m4bBAGgHMAXkAWxHJYfMMQgSQVARE9FBfAPcL52GmACIBpgD2EbQXIX YOkFEGdoHyE7H2EIUAeAWSRBISEjYSCVeQhgJ9EJcCBzdAlwdA9gC4AWZxlhGmAiF6UiIGJPIHEX gAGQG3B0bx5wZh8KwBgeFcEC0RCRczE2XwYACPEc4RhUEiEALPAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAB4A QhABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzCAwdHA7P+/AUAACDCAwdHA7P+/AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAA8xUAAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAAB AAAABQAAADguMDQAAAAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAy gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAA AQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMA DTT9NwAA0fo= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BFFFCB.754BA940-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 03:17:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:17:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation In-Reply-To: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: Phm works also to call up Philemon. The reason for which Phil calls up Philemon rather than Philippians is that Philemon simply comes first alphabetically. Phm may be the abbreviation you're accustomed to, but there are no standard accepted abbreviations that the whole of Christendom recogonize, so we have to try to accomodate as many of the many standards (every Bible and every Church seems to have its own unique set) as we can. SWORD (and I assume BibleTime) should accept "Phm 1:1" just fine and retrieve Philemon 1:1. If you don't give a chapter number, and just query "Phm 12" expecting verse 12, you'll actually get Hebrews 11:1 because the library just counts to the 12th chapter past Philemon's start. --Chris Little On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: > haha, a feature. :) > > Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) > > Solomon From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 03:41:41 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:41:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: <01BFFFC8.81577DC0@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: > If SWORD supports the markup aspect, then all we'd need is a program to create the necessary verse-lookup? (.vss) file for the Apocrypha. Does such an animal exist? :) The problem is that SWORD doesn't have a clue about anything outside the standard 66 book canon. Most of the grunt work in adding Apocrypha support is probably in the canon.h file where the book/chapter index arrays are held for each testament and the canon list/book orderings are held. That much I have completed from a while back, but there's still a bit more to do and I haven't had time to figure out what. If anyone wants my modified canon.h file to complete adding apocrypha support, please mail me. A .vss generating indexer for Apocrypha doesn't really exist. Once support is included in the library, the existing indexers coudl be modified to recognize Apocrypha fairly easily I suspect. Apocyrpha support raises another question of how we should package such portions of modules. The KJV Apocrypha,for example, should probably go in the same directory as our current KJV module, on the client's computer. However, I doubt the majority of our users who download the KJV module would want to be given the Apocrypha as part of their download (whether for bandwidth/filesize reasons or their concerns with orthodoxy). So we would need to provide a manner for parts of modules (e.g. the KJV Apocrypha) to not be downloaded. Or we would need a method for installing supplements to modules to the same directory as the primary files. And I'm not sure if this may conflict with our current Installers or the servlet on Crosswire. --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 04:54:12 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Pergamum) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 23:54:12 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation References: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: <000e01c0002b$88c1a640$e1c4f5d1@pergamumntytb> I have to disagree... correct me if I'm wrong but the chapter/verse feature is standard and universal in SWORD by default. So it would take extra coding to actually remove 1:1 from Philemon. My question is: What does that issue have to do with Salvation? Why strain at a gnat like that? So Philemon says "1:1". I don't think it should be made a point of contention. It's called simplifying the program. If Philemon works just fine saying 1:1, then live with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour their hearts into this work. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Solomon Kostelnik To: Sent: Sunday, 06 August, 2000 16:26 Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation haha, a feature. :) Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) Solomon ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 05:23:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 23:23:00 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation In-Reply-To: <000e01c0002b$88c1a640$e1c4f5d1@pergamumntytb> References: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000806230811.00b4aec0@ebible.org> At 11:54 PM 8/6/00 -0500, Pergamum wrote: >... >with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to >continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not >attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your >comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour >their hearts into this work. Whoa, there! Please don't be so touchy. I saw no mocking. I saw an honest effort to inform the developers of a bug. Call it a feature, if you like, but it is still a BUG. You decide if it is worth fixing, or if you would rather just document it, dress it up in a tuxedo, and call it a feature. Face it, insects just don't look good in tuxedos.... It isn't that hard to build in special handling for one-chapter books of the Bible. I did it in my GBF-to-PDF process. Check out the typeset version of the New Testament at http://eBible.org/bible/webnt.pdf, and you will see that the running headers and chapter:verse numbering shift to verse numbering only for the one-chapter books. In a user interface, if you make someone think your feature is a bug, that person is probably right. Just how hard is it to put in something like: if ((num_chapters(book) == 1) && (chapter > 1) && (verse == 0)) { verse = chapter; chapter = 1; } ????? IF you want your software to be good, LISTEN to your users, and don't berate them for reporting bugs. Swallow your pride and fix the bugs. _______ Michael Paul Johnson mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 06:24:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Pergamum) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 01:24:56 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation References: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20000806230811.00b4aec0@ebible.org> Message-ID: <002b01c00038$3f5668d0$e1c4f5d1@pergamumntytb> I understand what your saying. Your comments came through actually clear. Solomon's on the other hand were worded a bit like mockery. In defense of the authors here; I am not a programmer. They do listen to the users. I was simply trying to address what I misread as an insult directed towards the programmers. I do apologize if I jumped at conclusions. I am somewhat apt to defensiveness when it comes to people's attempts to spread the Word in whatever way they can. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Paul Johnson To: Sent: Monday, 07 August, 2000 00:23 Subject: Re: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation > At 11:54 PM 8/6/00 -0500, Pergamum wrote: > >... > >with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to > >continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not > >attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your > >comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour > >their hearts into this work. > > Whoa, there! Please don't be so touchy. I saw no mocking. I saw an honest effort to inform the developers of a bug. Call it a feature, if you like, but it is still a BUG. You decide if it is worth fixing, or if you would rather just document it, dress it up in a tuxedo, and call it a feature. Face it, insects just don't look good in tuxedos.... > > It isn't that hard to build in special handling for one-chapter books of the Bible. I did it in my GBF-to-PDF process. Check out the typeset version of the New Testament at http://eBible.org/bible/webnt.pdf, and you will see that the running headers and chapter:verse numbering shift to verse numbering only for the one-chapter books. In a user interface, if you make someone think your feature is a bug, that person is probably right. Just how hard is it to put in something like: > if ((num_chapters(book) == 1) && (chapter > 1) && (verse == 0)) > { > verse = chapter; > chapter = 1; > } > ????? > > IF you want your software to be good, LISTEN to your users, and don't berate them for reporting bugs. Swallow your pride and fix the bugs. > > _______ > > Michael Paul Johnson > mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj > > _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 10:21:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:21:03 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation References: <01BFFFCB.754BA940@AC8402F3.ipt.aol.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20000806230811.00b4aec0@ebible.org> Message-ID: <006f01c00059$3109f780$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > At 11:54 PM 8/6/00 -0500, Pergamum wrote: > >... > >with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to > >continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not > >attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your > >comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour > >their hearts into this work. > > Whoa, there! Please don't be so touchy. I saw no mocking. I saw an honest effort to inform the developers of a bug. ... > In a user interface, if you make someone think your feature is a bug, that person is probably right. Good call, Mike. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 15:17:08 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:17:08 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <01C00061.0A2812C0@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01C00061.0A2812C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pergamum and others, I understand that reading an email message can make interpretation = difficult, since there's no tone, etc. That's why I put smilely faces, = to hopefully point out when I am laughing or smiling in real life as I = write it. Just to clarify, the others were right. My post wasn't intended to be = mocking at all. I just wondered why if a person entered 1:1 for = Philemon that it would consider it incorrect. Isn't this the mailing = list for development of Sword? Since 1:1 exists in Philemon, I wondered = why Sword thought it didn't and sent me to Hebrews instead. I think my question was valid, and not at all mocking. Apparently, = others believe that it's a bug too, so it's not just me. I don't know = why you brought salvation into this thread (?), as I was speaking of a = software glitch, and not about anyone's faith. So, back to the subject, can anyone tell me how to pull up a specific = verse in Philemon, or Jude, now that I think about it? Should I do "Phm = 4" or "Jude 4" or will it think I'm asking for chapter 4? Or maybe = there's just no current way to go directly to a verse in a single = chapter book? To the developers, thanks in advance for considering my request! In the Love of Yahweh, Solomon -----Original Message----- From: Pergamum [SMTP:pergamum@netzero.net] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:09 AM To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation I have to disagree... correct me if I'm wrong but the chapter/verse = feature is standard and universal in SWORD by default. So it would take extra = coding to actually remove 1:1 from Philemon. My question is: What does that = issue have to do with Salvation? Why strain at a gnat like that? So Philemon = says "1:1". I don't think it should be made a point of contention. It's = called simplifying the program. If Philemon works just fine saying 1:1, then = live with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is = to continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that = pour their hearts into this work. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Solomon Kostelnik To: Sent: Sunday, 06 August, 2000 16:26 Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation haha, a feature. :) Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, = not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is = unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) Solomon ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ------ =_NextPart_000_01C00061.0A2812C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig4PAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA2AEAAAEAAAARAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAUQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHN3b3JkLWRldmVsQGNy b3Nzd2lyZS5vcmcAU01UUABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAaAAAAc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZwAAAAMAFQwBAAAA AwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABwAAAAnc3dvcmQtZGV2ZWxAY3Jvc3N3aXJlLm9yZycAAgELMAEAAAAf AAAAU01UUDpTV09SRC1ERVZFTEBDUk9TU1dJUkUuT1JHAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAwBxOgAA AAAeAPZfAQAAABoAAABzd29yZC1kZXZlbEBjcm9zc3dpcmUub3JnAAAAAgH3XwEAAABRAAAAAAAA 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Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:20:59 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? Message-ID: <01C00061.93B1BAA0@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01C00061.93B1BAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, Thanks for the explanation. That's pretty much what I remembered = hearing the last time this was brought up. I wasn't sure if anyone had = started development to support outside books yet or not. When I began to use a program as nice as Bibletime, and saw how easy it = is to add new texts, etc., via SWORD (write the GBF and build the .vss), = I assumed that adding another book would be as simple. I understand = that the code is not there yet, though. If I could program, I would = help. :) Thanks again for the info. 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My post wasn't intended to be > mocking at all. I just wondered why if a person entered 1:1 for Philemon > that it would consider it incorrect. Isn't this the mailing list for > development of Sword? Since 1:1 exists in Philemon, I wondered why Sword > thought it didn't and sent me to Hebrews instead. > > I think my question was valid, and not at all mocking. Apparently, others > believe that it's a bug too, so it's not just me. I don't know why you > brought salvation into this thread (?), as I was speaking of a software > glitch, and not about anyone's faith. > > So, back to the subject, can anyone tell me how to pull up a specific > verse in Philemon, or Jude, now that I think about it? Should I do "Phm > 4" or "Jude 4" or will it think I'm asking for chapter 4? Or maybe > there's just no current way to go directly to a verse in a single chapter > book? > > To the developers, thanks in advance for considering my request! > > In the Love of Yahweh, > Solomon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pergamum [SMTP:pergamum@netzero.net] > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:09 AM > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure > representation > > I have to disagree... correct me if I'm wrong but the chapter/verse > feature > is standard and universal in SWORD by default. So it would take > extra coding > to actually remove 1:1 from Philemon. My question is: What does that > issue > have to do with Salvation? Why strain at a gnat like that? So > Philemon says > "1:1". I don't think it should be made a point of contention. It's > called > simplifying the program. If Philemon works just fine saying 1:1, > then live > with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important > thing is to > continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm > not > attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however > your > comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those > that pour > their hearts into this work. > > In Christ Jesus, > Pergamum > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J. Solomon Kostelnik > To: > Sent: Sunday, 06 August, 2000 16:26 > Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure > representation > > > haha, a feature. :) > > Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is > Phm, not > Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is > unacceptable > for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I > think > you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) > > Solomon > > > ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ > Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 > ___________________________________________________________ > > From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 19:16:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 13:16:01 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] Rhinocerous Hide and Net Manners Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000807131520.00b59770@ebible.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Blessed are you who don't take offense easily at what others post, for you shall not be continually irritated. Blessed are you who only write loving and kind words, for you shall be spared many flame wars. Blessed are you who take the time to send private notes of appreciation and encouragement to those who post good things, for you show great love for your brothers and sisters. Blessed are you who take the time to read posts carefully and search for the good in them, for you shall find much good. Blessed are you who are peacemakers, for you shall inherit the earth. Blessed are you who give all posters the benefit of the doubt, for you shall find that you are often right. Blessed are you who are considerate of other people's feelings when you post, for you shall avoid causing pain to your brothers and sisters. Blessed are you who study the Holy Scriptures to apply them in your life, and not to attack others with in the manner of the Pharisees and Saducees, for you shall renew your mind and be pleasing to God. Blessed are you who avoid attacking any person who was made in God's image, even if they are obviously in sin, for you too, are a sinner saved only by the grace of God. Blessed are you who hate sin and love the sinner, for that is what God does. Blessed are you who hold to God's Truth in love, and are not persuaded to the contrary by catchy phrases, lies, criticism, or threats. Blessed are you who put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, and not in any human, human organization, or thing, for you shall be saved. Blessed are you who are as polite and courteous over email and usenet as you are in person, for people will delight in reading your posts. Jesus Christ is Lord! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3 Comment: http://cryptography.org iQA/AwUBNRnmwESP4McX10e7EQIGlQCg072fXTjFF1mxOD7WlzXJ+wuwi10AoNqe Gj3qBGozJr99BhQ3qAMGmhaw =++yn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 21:26:51 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 17:26:51 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Rhinocerous Hide and Net Manners Message-ID: <01C00094.ACB55A60@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01C00094.ACB55A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great post, Michael. I wish several of the people I've talked to recently would have read = that. They give being "easily offended" a whole new meaning, sigh. Did you write it, or find it somewhere else? The author deserves a = blessing from the Father for that one. Would that more Christians = understood what "love believes the best" really means! Bless you regardless, for sharing it with us! Glory unto the Lamb! 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I unfortunately don't know how to pick single addresses out of a group email list. In this case however since I opened my mouth in front of the whole group it is only appropriate that I complete my comments in the same manner so that accountability may be made to all I may have offended or confused by my comment. As I said, I apologize for jumping the gun earlier. But I feel I need to explain my comment on salvation. In a sense I guess it was in the same humor context that your original post was. I was trying to demonstrate what a small problem the Philemon 1:1 thing seemed. It was not a glitch (or feature) that affected the text of the book in any meaningful way, nor would it's existence mislead someone through wrongful reading and make them miss the key to Salvation. I was trying to compare it to a glitch tantamount to say, an accidental omission of John 3:16 or 14:6. However I do think my rather pointed tone blew the sarcasm right out of the letter. I honestly should have known better than to think someone on the list here would actually be trying to disrupt the work. I hope you can forgive my oversight. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Solomon Kostelnik To: Sent: Monday, 07 August, 2000 10:17 Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Pergamum and others, I understand that reading an email message can make interpretation difficult, since there's no tone, etc. That's why I put smilely faces, to hopefully point out when I am laughing or smiling in real life as I write it. Just to clarify, the others were right. My post wasn't intended to be mocking at all. I just wondered why if a person entered 1:1 for Philemon that it would consider it incorrect. Isn't this the mailing list for development of Sword? Since 1:1 exists in Philemon, I wondered why Sword thought it didn't and sent me to Hebrews instead. I think my question was valid, and not at all mocking. Apparently, others believe that it's a bug too, so it's not just me. I don't know why you brought salvation into this thread (?), as I was speaking of a software glitch, and not about anyone's faith. So, back to the subject, can anyone tell me how to pull up a specific verse in Philemon, or Jude, now that I think about it? Should I do "Phm 4" or "Jude 4" or will it think I'm asking for chapter 4? Or maybe there's just no current way to go directly to a verse in a single chapter book? To the developers, thanks in advance for considering my request! In the Love of Yahweh, Solomon -----Original Message----- From: Pergamum [SMTP:pergamum@netzero.net] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:09 AM To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation I have to disagree... correct me if I'm wrong but the chapter/verse feature is standard and universal in SWORD by default. So it would take extra coding to actually remove 1:1 from Philemon. My question is: What does that issue have to do with Salvation? Why strain at a gnat like that? So Philemon says "1:1". I don't think it should be made a point of contention. It's called simplifying the program. If Philemon works just fine saying 1:1, then live with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the important thing is to continue searching for formatting and functionality glitches. I'm not attempting to be rude or to belittle you here Solomon... however your comment seems to merely be an attempt to mock the efforts of those that pour their hearts into this work. In Christ Jesus, Pergamum ----- Original Message ----- From: J. Solomon Kostelnik To: Sent: Sunday, 06 August, 2000 16:26 Subject: RE: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation haha, a feature. :) Well, that's odd. The general accepted abbreviation of Philemon is Phm, not Phil. Who changed it? :) And why would it think that 1:1 is unacceptable for Philemon? It DOES have one chapter, right? ;) Come on!! I think you're stretching the "feature" bit a tad too far. :) Solomon ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________ Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ___________________________________________________________ From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 22:15:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (J. Solomon Kostelnik) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:15:40 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] bug in SWORD's bible structure representation Message-ID: <01C0009B.7F5B61C0@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01C0009B.7F5B61C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pergamum, I understand what you meant now. Still no hard feelings over here. :) = As I said, I know that the lack of tone and facial expressions can make = communicating online very difficult sometimes. Smilies can only go so = far, since they could possibly be used in a snide way. Thanks for the = apology, even though it was a misunderstanding. Just as a note for you and the others, my later comment on people being = easily offended was not directed towards you, but was about several = older women who recently wrote me (long story). They were decided on = making a souffle out of my words of encouragement. :) You're under grace! 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Thought you might like the feedback! Drewe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 23:01:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 17:01:17 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] Rhinocerous Hide and Net Manners In-Reply-To: <01C00094.ACB55A60@AC9F54E6.ipt.aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000807165655.00b54e60@ebible.org> At 05:26 PM 8/7/00 -0400, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: >Great post, Michael. Thank you. >Did you write it, or find it somewhere else? The author deserves a blessing from the Father for that one. Would that more Christians understood what "love believes the best" really means! I wrote it. I post it regularly to certain other mailing lists that I moderate to help keep the tone Christian. I'm glad we are all under grace and forgiven. Let's be about our Father's business in love. :-) Jesus Christ is Lord! _______ Michael Paul Johnson mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 23:05:28 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (geoffrey W Hastings) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:05:28 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? Message-ID: <20000807.160530.-308865.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> I don't believe I would like the Apocrypha to be put into the same module as the KJV. I would not want to have to remember to do searches in custom search to omit the Apocrypha from my results. I wouldn't want seaches of the Apocrypha to pull up results from the KJV either. It might lead to confusion in instances where more than one person use the same computer if they do not all have the understanding that they are tied together, say in a church or bible college library etc... Geoff Hastings geoffreyhastings@juno.com On Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:41:41 -0700 (MST) writes: > > > On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, J. Solomon Kostelnik wrote: > > > If SWORD supports the markup aspect, then all we'd need is a > program to create the necessary verse-lookup? (.vss) file for the > Apocrypha. Does such an animal exist? :) > > The problem is that SWORD doesn't have a clue about anything outside > the > standard 66 book canon. Most of the grunt work in adding Apocrypha > support is probably in the canon.h file where the book/chapter index > arrays are held for each testament and the canon list/book orderings > are > held. That much I have completed from a while back, but there's > still a > bit more to do and I haven't had time to figure out what. If anyone > wants > my modified canon.h file to complete adding apocrypha support, > please mail > me. > > A .vss generating indexer for Apocrypha doesn't really exist. Once > support is included in the library, the existing indexers coudl be > modified to recognize Apocrypha fairly easily I suspect. > > Apocyrpha support raises another question of how we should package > such > portions of modules. The KJV Apocrypha,for example, should probably > go in > the same directory as our current KJV module, on the client's > computer. > However, I doubt the majority of our users who download the KJV > module > would want to be given the Apocrypha as part of their download > (whether > for bandwidth/filesize reasons or their concerns with orthodoxy). > So we > would need to provide a manner for parts of modules (e.g. the KJV > Apocrypha) to not be downloaded. Or we would need a method for > installing > supplements to modules to the same directory as the primary files. > And > I'm not sure if this may conflict with our current Installers or the > servlet on Crosswire. > > --Chris Little > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 7 15:20:46 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Peter Federighi) Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 15:20:46 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Curses Port Message-ID: <398ED3CE.CCEE7CCC@yahoo.com> Hello. I was asked to subscribe to the devel list and post a message that I originally sent to Troy Griffitts regarding a curses port. He tells me that someone else has already begun. Would said person want some help? I look forward to hearing from you. - Peter === For some time now I have occasionally entertained the idea of writing a Bible program for unix since the only one I knew of was a command line KJV program. My original thought was to write the equivalent of the Online Bible program. I contacted the author of the MacOS version (I use it under Executor) but he declined to give me any information on the formats for any of the files. My next thought was to reverse engineer them, when I happened across the SWORD project. Wow, I thought, this is great. Then I noticed that a GTK+ version is already in the works, but that a curses port was wanted. I hereby volunteer to start one if one hasn't been started already. God bless you. === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 03:33:12 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:33:12 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: <20000807.160530.-308865.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> Message-ID: Very good point. Now I'm really uncertain of what the solution should be. Perhaps the advisable thing to do would be to make the OT & NT the default search extents and require that people include the intertestamentals specifically for searches or allow people to save their default search extents. Of course, that may be more on the front end side of things than the library backend. I'm still somewhat wary of dividing parts of the same work into different modules on the client's system, since the intertestamentals were translated right along with the OT & NT for the KJV. If we split the KJV and its Apocrypha, I suppose we would do likewise with the RSV, but what would we do with the Douay-Rheims or other Catholic translations? If we look at the competition, OLB splits its OT & NT from Apocrypha but none of the commercial products (BibleWorks, Logos, etc.) do so to my knowledge. Larry may have had no better reason, BTW, than the fact that his software can't support more than 32768 verses per module, and the Apocrypha would have put him way over that--or simply because his modules aren't very modular and can't be added to like ours could by adding new testaments. Just some more thoughts. Feel free to critique. :) --Chris Little On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, geoffrey W Hastings wrote: > I don't believe I would like the Apocrypha to be put into the same module > as the KJV. > I would not want to have to remember to do searches in custom search to > omit the Apocrypha from my results. > I wouldn't want seaches of the Apocrypha to pull up results from the KJV > either. > It might lead to confusion in instances where more than one person use > the same computer if they do not all have the understanding that they are > tied together, say in a church or bible college library etc... From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 14:02:53 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 10:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port Message-ID: <200008081402.KAA12659@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Peter, Help on the curses port is very much wanted. Earlier I posted to this mailing list about this port. Here is what I have changed since my last post: I realized that the choice of names 'zebra' is confusing or ambigous because of other software by that name. So instead I would like to call it 'irenaeus' so there will be no confusion in the future. Well, I fixed some of the glitches in the program, although there are still several that I need to fix. Now multi-word searches should work. Now there is a way to do a lookup from the results of a search. So I have thrown together a program that needs lots of work. Although it is a curses port, I would like to have it continue to support command line and cin/cout types of interfaces. This permits its use and interaction with other programs. The first example that I have, is an emacs mode. I have included an emacs mode (sword.el) that will call the irenaeus program and insert the returned bible verse, or list of references. I have started working on an interactive interface (swordint.el) that uses comint to pipe information between a running process, and an emacs buffer. (it doesn't work yet.) So it uses emacs as a front end, and just passes on the commands. The advantage of this is to use all of software for some well developed programs and have it easily integrate with sword. (Has anyone here worked with Mule (part of emacs supporting other languages fonts)?) I still don't have the write to commentary stuff working yet. so I have the updated code at http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/index.html Should I set up a CVS repository? Any preferences on how collaboration is done? raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 19:57:21 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 05:57:21 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port References: <200008081402.KAA12659@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <00eb01c00172$de25e9a0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > ... > so I have the updated code at > http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/index.html > > Should I set up a CVS repository? Any preferences on how collaboration > is done? Use the Sword CVS repository. I'm sure Troy would be happy to give you access to a section of it. PDG From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 19:59:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 05:59:01 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? References: Message-ID: <00f101c00173$18f12ea0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > ... > Perhaps the advisable thing to do would be to make the OT & NT the default > search extents and require that people include the intertestamentals > specifically for searches or allow people to save their default search > extents. Of course, that may be more on the front end side of things than > the library backend. > > I'm still somewhat wary of dividing parts of the same work into different > modules on the client's system, since the intertestamentals were > translated right along with the OT & NT for the KJV. If we split the KJV > and its Apocrypha, I suppose we would do likewise with the RSV, but what > would we do with the Douay-Rheims or other Catholic translations? > ... > Just some more thoughts. Feel free to critique. :) My vote goes for leaving them as part of the same module and changing the default search extent. It makes for a more consistent interface. Provide a non-Apocrypha version for people who don't want it. PDG From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 20:22:59 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 16:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port In-Reply-To: <00eb01c00172$de25e9a0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> from "Paul Gear" at Aug 09, 2000 05:57:21 AM Message-ID: <200008082022.QAA13814@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Paul Gear wrote: > > > ... > > so I have the updated code at > > http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/index.html > > > > Should I set up a CVS repository? Any preferences on how collaboration > > is done? > > Use the Sword CVS repository. I'm sure Troy would be happy to give you > access to a section of it. > > PDG > > The option that I was thinking of is sourceforge. gnomesword is hosted there with CVS. Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 8 22:57:32 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 15:57:32 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Apocrypha? In-Reply-To: References: <20000807.160530.-308865.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000808153908.00950f00@mail.dancris.com> Perhaps a toggle for user preference. Let the user choose between treating modules with both canonical and non-canonical material as two modules or one module. The setting should be able to be overridden when doing a search. As a companion feature to this, it would be good to let the user define (or select) what canon he uses. Just an idea. Jerry At 08:33 PM 8/7/2000 -0700, Chris Little wrote: >Very good point. Now I'm really uncertain of what the solution should be. > >Perhaps the advisable thing to do would be to make the OT & NT the default >search extents and require that people include the intertestamentals >specifically for searches or allow people to save their default search >extents. Of course, that may be more on the front end side of things than >the library backend. > >I'm still somewhat wary of dividing parts of the same work into different >modules on the client's system, since the intertestamentals were >translated right along with the OT & NT for the KJV. If we split the KJV >and its Apocrypha, I suppose we would do likewise with the RSV, but what >would we do with the Douay-Rheims or other Catholic translations? > >If we look at the competition, OLB splits its OT & NT from Apocrypha but >none of the commercial products (BibleWorks, Logos, etc.) do so to my >knowledge. Larry may have had no better reason, BTW, than the fact that >his software can't support more than 32768 verses per module, and the >Apocrypha would have put him way over that--or simply because his modules >aren't very modular and can't be added to like ours could by adding new >testaments. > >Just some more thoughts. Feel free to critique. :) > >--Chris Little > >On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, geoffrey W Hastings wrote: > > > I don't believe I would like the Apocrypha to be put into the same module > > as the KJV. > > I would not want to have to remember to do searches in custom search to > > omit the Apocrypha from my results. > > I wouldn't want seaches of the Apocrypha to pull up results from the KJV > > either. > > It might lead to confusion in instances where more than one person use > > the same computer if they do not all have the understanding that they are > > tied together, say in a church or bible college library etc... From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 13:14:23 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port Message-ID: <200008091314.JAA16291@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> I have just put my curses port irenaeus on sourceforge. should be available at sourceforge.net/projects/irenaeus Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 21:20:42 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Ron Walton) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 14:20:42 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Bug: Message-ID: <3991CB2A.DF7DA4A0@gemair.com> I get the following error during install of modules: Warning: TZ environment variable not found, cannot use UTC times!! I copy the zipped module to an empty directory, unzip it and run the setup.exe. The modules seem to install correctly. Ron From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 20:55:57 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 13:55:57 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] [Fwd: Request for free video tract of the Gospel] Message-ID: <3991C55D.97BC786D@crosswire.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------03BC43ACC71ECCCC1A3B4642 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another unfortunate response. --------------03BC43ACC71ECCCC1A3B4642 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from omicron.bgea.org (smtp.bgea.org [63.76.143.140]) by www.crosswire.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04384 for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:05:56 -0700 Received: from mmh.bgea.org [172.16.2.252] by omicron.bgea.org (SMTPD32-5.05) id A24956401DC; Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:09:45 -0500 From: "Dawn Evans" To: "Troy A. Griffitts" Subject: Request for free video tract of the Gospel Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000101c0021c$3d3caba0$fc0210ac@bgea.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal August 9, 2000 Dear Mr. Griffitts: Thank you for your email message and phone call to our Response Center of July 25, 2000 inquiring about the availability of a free video tract of the Gospel that your organization, Crosswire Bible Society, could include on the free Bible software CDs you are developing. Your request was forwarded to my department for response because we handle permission requests concerning Mr. Graham. We regret to inform you that we cannot grant you permission to include Mr. Graham's video image on your Bible CDs. We appreciate the fact that you are doing a good work and are trying to spread the Gospel, just as we are--it is just that we try to limit use of Mr. Graham's name or image to those projects done within our own organization. We hope you will be able to understand our position on this. Thanks again for your inquiry, Mr. Griffitts. We trust God will richly bless you and your new endeavor with the Bible software. Sincerely,   Stephen G. Scholle Director of Operational Services Billy Graham Evangelistic Association   SGS:de --------------03BC43ACC71ECCCC1A3B4642-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 21:46:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 21:46:56 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] The SWORD Cd in europe! Message-ID: <00080921465601.14048@joachim> Hi all! Perhaps you know that Troy sent me some SWORD CDs so we (the team of BibleTime) can ship them in Europe. We need some support from people in other european countrys. If you have a CD burner and want to send the SWORD CD out in your country please contact us at info@bibletime.de ! We'd be glad to have some support diong this job! And: IMHO Troy does also need support in the USA! Volunteers? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 21:09:24 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:09:24 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Curses port References: <200008082022.QAA13814@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <017601c00246$19376180$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > > > ... > > > so I have the updated code at > > > http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/index.html > > > > > > Should I set up a CVS repository? Any preferences on how collaboration > > > is done? > > > > Use the Sword CVS repository. I'm sure Troy would be happy to give you > > access to a section of it. > > > The option that I was thinking of is sourceforge. gnomesword is hosted > there with CVS. Why make people go to two places for code when we can put them together? From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 9 21:12:39 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:12:39 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Open book unlocking system (was Re: Module verification, was Re: [sword-devel] DoctrinalStatement) References: <20000727.164437.-316621.1.geoffreyhastings@juno.com> <4.2.0.58.20000727224340.00a35a00@mail.dancris.com> <4.2.0.58.20000728222758.00a3ae00@mail.dancris.com> <4.2.0.58.20000805164627.00a3f260@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <019601c00246$8ca713e0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > Sorry this reply has taken so long. It looks like this is the kind of thing > that X.509 is for. I think it would be a great way to start working out > security. I didn't see anyone jumping on the idea to get it done though. Did you expect to? ;-) > Perhaps if a rough draft of a Sword implementation was created others may > take it up. Indeed. Well, sometime when i've got a spare year, i might be able to create a working implementation. :-( PDG From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 10 13:06:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Peter Federighi) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:06:31 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: Curses port References: <200008092053.QAA17549@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <3992A8D7.E8F08876@yahoo.com> Richard, Hi. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I grabbed your source off your web page and then spent considerable time trying to get it to compile. I finally gave up with the thought that maybe the version of ncurses that I have is incompatible with STL/G++ templates (it certainly seemed that way, though it should have been fine). So... I downloaded the latest stable version (5.1) and compiled it on my system. The I spent even longer trying to figure out why it didn't support the underline attribute on my terminal but worked fine in an xterm or rxvt. I finally traced it to the terminfo file that had the ncv option set to disable underline in color mode. Thus, with that finally figured out, I proceeded to try to compile your program. I got further this time. It produced errors because 'string::c_str()' returns 'const char*' while the function defs were for 'char*'. GCC (or the version I have) is getting extremely picky about arguments matching definitions exactly. So I overrode the data type with '(char *)' and everything compiled. It also didn't like some method being declared static. Would you like to know the files/lines that I changed? Now, to answer some of your questions... Yes, I do have ideas on how it should work. Troy suggested the msdos OLB as an interface, but I've never used it and have no idea what it was like. If it's anything like the Windows version I would prefer not to use it. I was mostly thinking of trying to do something close to the MacOS OLB interface. Not the greatest, but simple, and fairly easy (I bet I'll eat that later) to convert to a terminal interface. No, I don't have any experience writing curses programs. I have had to dive into it here and there in order to make some poorly written interfaces work properly. That was a long time ago and I've replaced most such programs with their X equivalent. I was hoping to use this project as a learning time as well. As far as curses goes, is the port supposed to be for plain curses or can ncurses features be used (color, mouse, panels, etc.)? If ncurses features are allowed, how about using ncurses++? I haven't looked into to it too greatly, but since I got the latest ncurses anyway, I figured I'd make sure the C++ bindings were compiled in so GCC wouldn't barf the way it did before. As an added bonus it compiles the ncurses++ library. For collaborating, I think private email would be best, so we don't fill peoples inboxes. As for CVS. I've never used it. I don't have a clue as to how it works. Is it easy? How much drive space does it take up? Is it easier than mailing patches to each other? I think drive space is probably the biggest factor right now, though not for much longer. I suppose you might want to know something about me and the system I'm using. Or maybe not, but I'm going to tell you anyway =). My system is currently: Linux 2.2.16, GCC 2.95.3, Ncurses 5.1, GPM 1.17.8, XFree86 4.0, Rxvt 2.6.3, and Gnome 1.2.3. The editors that I use most are Joe 2.8 and NEdit 5.1.1. I don't have Emacs. As soon as I get a larger HD I plan to install BeOS and FreeBSD (as well as Linux) and see how they compare. It might be good to experiment with compiling on BeOS anyway (the thought of a text based BeOS program is sort of odd, though). My coding style is probably weird to most people. I love 4 space hardware tabs and long lines (I typically use a 132 column terminal or larger). I'll try to follow your coding style, if you'll put up with me when I get frustrated and don't. A pseudo example (spaces used instead of tabs, notice the long line): boolean A_Class::a_method(int32 arg) { uint8 extravar; if (arg >= 0) { cout << "Enter a number from 0-255: "; cin >> extravar; cout << "The name of the character corresponding to the number you typed is: " << ASCII.character_name[extravar] << endl; return TRUE; } else return FALSE; } Well, about me: I love my Lord! My soul is saved by the blood of Jesus! I regularily attend Calvary Chapel of Olympia. My favorite color is emerald green. My hobbies include: working on cars, writing the occasional program, hiking, biking, and rock collecting. My favorite musical styles are techno/rave and 60s/70s Jesus people. My favorite bands are Kraftwerk and Danielson Famile. I live in Olympia, WA where it rains more that Seattle. I hope someday to go back to school and study EE/CE. I live with four other guys in the eastside guys' house. We formed it for mutual edification and encouragement in the faith. There's also the Tumwater guys' house and the Ladies' house which is in downtown Olympia and is the location of the fine motion picture 'Tragedy at Stranglewood'. Perhaps if we ever meet I'll show it to you =). This is probably a lot more info than you wanted. I look forward to hearing from you. God bless you. - Peter raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > Peter, > > I am glad to see interest in the curses port. > I have moved it to sourceforge under project irenaeus. > > Is there any particular part that you are interested in? > Any particular application or enviroment? Any ideas about how it should > work? Do you have experience with writing curses programs? > > What do you want to do? > > Richard Holcombe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 02:38:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:38:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] sourceforge In-Reply-To: <3992A8D7.E8F08876@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I set us up on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/sword). It's not for CVS, mailing lists, or any of the other stuff we already have on crosswire.org, but it's for all the other stuff we don't have and just for general publicity. So, head on over, check it out, comment on what sort of stuff you think we ought to use/add to the site there, etc. If you're interested in contributing in the area of support or documentation writing or whatever, please let me know what your sourceforge login is and I'll add you in. Thoughts/comments appreciated. --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 13:37:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (William J Conroy) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:37:16 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] remove References: Message-ID: <3994018C.8CD72D9C@bms.com> Please remove name from mailing list (conroyw@bms.com). Thanks Chris Little wrote: > I set us up on sourceforge (http://sourceforge.net/projects/sword). > > It's not for CVS, mailing lists, or any of the other stuff we already have > on crosswire.org, but it's for all the other stuff we don't have and just > for general publicity. > > So, head on over, check it out, comment on what sort of stuff you think we > ought to use/add to the site there, etc. If you're interested in > contributing in the area of support or documentation writing or whatever, > please let me know what your sourceforge login is and I'll add you in. > > Thoughts/comments appreciated. > > --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 20:19:52 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:19:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] GPL Palm Bible software found Message-ID: While searching around sourceforge, I came upon a message with a link to someone's GPLed Bible software. Some reviews I've read of it say it's pretty unstable and not so wonderful, but I've not yet had an opportunity to try it for myself. The author has got support for taking QuickVerse's STEP titles (just some of the Bibles) and converting them to a format for his own reader, which looks pretty interesting. I'll email him right now and ask if he'd be interested in joining us, but even if not, we could use his work as a base form which to work. Check his stuff out at http://www.angelfire.com/mi/tzstuff/ . --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 20:29:36 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:29:36 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? Message-ID: I'm sure this question has been asked a gazillion times before and I've just missed the answers, but is there any way of using SWORD from Java, either as a pure Java class in early development or with some Java interface to the compiled C++ libraries? I've just started working with/learning Java and figured out that this Java-thing is pretty cool. :) I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at developing Palm stuff with KVM. So is anything already available or is this stuff very easy to accomplish? --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 21:39:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:39:47 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? References: Message-ID: <399472A3.7B56C8D6@crosswire.org> Chris, You can check out module 'jsword' from our CVS repository. It currently has all of our Java work. You won't be able to traverse a module, but you can use SWMgr to examine what modules are installed for a sword install and get some other information. There are the beginnings of things in there that will allow you to read a module, but work stopped at VerseKey. I've been wanting to rewrite VerseKey.cpp for some time now and thought it not a good time to port the existing code to Java. For an example, go to our module download page on our website and view the list of some module type (Bibles, Commentaries, etc.). At the end of the list, there will be a link to source for ModDisp.jsp This is where you will see the Java code in action. -Troy. Chris Little wrote: > > I'm sure this question has been asked a gazillion times before and I've > just missed the answers, but is there any way of using SWORD from Java, > either as a pure Java class in early development or with some Java > interface to the compiled C++ libraries? I've just started working > with/learning Java and figured out that this Java-thing is pretty cool. :) > > I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o > the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at > developing Palm stuff with KVM. > > So is anything already available or is this stuff very easy to accomplish? > > --Chris Little From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 12 09:08:13 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:08:13 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: Curses port References: <200008092053.QAA17549@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> <3992A8D7.E8F08876@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701c0043c$d98206a0$0302a8c0@gear.dyndns.org> > ... > Thus, with that finally figured out, I proceeded to try to compile your > program. I got further this time. It produced errors because > 'string::c_str()' returns 'const char*' while the function defs were for > 'char*'. GCC (or the version I have) is getting extremely picky about > arguments matching definitions exactly. So I overrode the data type with > '(char *)' and everything compiled. It also didn't like some method being > declared static. Fix the functions that require char * - don't pander to them with casts. You could really screw up your strings that way if you're not careful. > ... > My coding style is probably weird to most people. I love 4 space > hardware tabs and long lines (I typically use a 132 column terminal or > larger). I'll try to follow your coding style, if you'll put up with me > when I get frustrated and don't. Changing hardware tabs (oxymoron of the day) is for people who don't know about set shiftwidth, ^T, ^D, <<, and >> in vi. :-) PDG From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 11 21:58:45 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joe Walker) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:58:45 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o > the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at > developing Palm stuff with KVM. Take care with the KVM. From what I can see it is a) not a JVM and b) a bad idea Not a JVM? The problem I think was that to Classload, for example java.lang.String you also have to Classload a zillion other classes which it references. Pop goes your 1Mb memory (or whatever). So the KVM rewrites all the code libs to remove class inter-dependancies, and pop goes any hope of compatibility. Bad idea? Well Moore Law says that in a few months Palms will have fast StrongARMs and 64Mb of memory etc. So I'd suggest developing for a PC now and waiting on a Palm. Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 14 21:27:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:27:03 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> OK Joachim ;) I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized a few search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, multiword searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey). You'll need the latest CVS source to try it out. There is a utility: sword/utilities/mkfastmod that will create the search framework for a module if it is supported for the module type. *** THIS IS A REFERENCE IMPLEMENTATION. There are others much more capable than myself (Trevor! :) ) that could do a much better job. This example should make the sword aspects of the job less mystic. New/Augmented framework methods: virtual ListKey &SWModule::Search(const char *istr, int searchType = 0, int flags = 0, SWKey *scope = 0, bool *justCheckIfSupported = 0); justCheckIfSupported was added to allow one to see if THIS search routine will perform the search. This is not a check to see if the search is ultimately supported (maybe by the base class). virtual char SWModule::createSearchFramework(); This will ask the module to build (or rebuild) any special search framework that it supports. virtual bool SWModule::hasSearchFramework(); This allows one to check if the module driver supports a search framework. virtual bool SWModule::isSearchOptimallySupported(const char *istr, int searchType, int flags, SWKey *scope); This allows one to check if the search will be handled in the most optimized way (ie. if there is a search framework and it does not handle this case, this will be false) Let me know if it works! :) It compiles :) j/k Also, if there are any questions by anyone wishing to build a real search framework, please ask! -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi! > > My first article in this group! > > A really slow thing of SWORD is the searching part! In comparision with > other programs it takes too long. > > Perhaps you noticed some months ago that Trevor Jenkins offered his help on > this topic. > But nothing happened. > > My question is: How do we get a more fast searching algorithm? > > -- Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 14 23:14:32 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Trevor Jenkins) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:14:32 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support Message-ID: > There is a utility: sword/utilities/mkfastmod that will create the > search framework for a module if it is supported for the module type. > > *** THIS IS A REFERENCE IMPLEMENTATION. There are others much more > capable than myself (Trevor! :) ) that could do a much better job. This > example should make the sword aspects of the job less mystic. I hear you. Well my ears (or is it eyes as it's email) do but my body and more importantly my ind don't.:-( I'm still off work because of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome---just keeping up with the email is tiring but with the CFS-induced brain fog I miss a lot. I've not forgotten about fast searching within Sword and have been working on it as brain fog allows. (But my Linux machine just died on me after long years of service so it too is suffering; looks like a complete hardware rebuild is necessary---wish it was that easy for me). Keep badgering me about it because there will come a day when I recover and can return to normality. He promised. Regards, Trevor British Sign Language is not inarticulate handwaving; it's a living language. So recognise it now. -- <>< Re: deemed! From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 01:17:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:17:17 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> OK, fixed a few bugs. Any early testers should update their CVS tree and make clean; make -Troy. "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > OK Joachim ;) > > I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized a few > search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, multiword > searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey). You'll need the latest > CVS source to try it out. > > There is a utility: sword/utilities/mkfastmod that will create the > search framework for a module if it is supported for the module type. > > *** THIS IS A REFERENCE IMPLEMENTATION. There are others much more > capable than myself (Trevor! :) ) that could do a much better job. This > example should make the sword aspects of the job less mystic. > > New/Augmented framework methods: > > virtual ListKey &SWModule::Search(const char *istr, int searchType = 0, > int flags = 0, SWKey *scope = 0, bool *justCheckIfSupported = 0); > > justCheckIfSupported was added to allow one to see if THIS search > routine will perform the search. This is not a check to see if the > search is ultimately supported (maybe by the base class). > > virtual char SWModule::createSearchFramework(); > > This will ask the module to build (or rebuild) any special search > framework that it supports. > > virtual bool SWModule::hasSearchFramework(); > > This allows one to check if the module driver supports a search > framework. > > virtual bool SWModule::isSearchOptimallySupported(const char *istr, int > searchType, int flags, SWKey *scope); > > This allows one to check if the search will be handled in the most > optimized way (ie. if there is a search framework and it does not handle > this case, this will be false) > > Let me know if it works! :) It compiles :) j/k Also, if there are > any questions by anyone wishing to build a real search framework, please > ask! > > -Troy. > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > My first article in this group! > > > > A really slow thing of SWORD is the searching part! In comparision with > > other programs it takes too long. > > > > Perhaps you noticed some months ago that Trevor Jenkins offered his help on > > this topic. > > But nothing happened. > > > > My question is: How do we get a more fast searching algorithm? > > > > -- Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 01:25:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Marsh) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:25:48 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Message-ID: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EEC@HANSEN-NT1> Hi all, As some may be aware, I am interested in developing a frontend for Sword in VB. This is not a major development as it is really to help me learn VB better and because I don't particularly like the current Windows front end. I also will be fitting development work in between Course commitments and family commitments, so will be fairly slow moving. I have been supplied with a Sword DLL, which is apparently quite old. I have a few questions, though: 1. Is there a new Sword DLL being created? 2. I have read the Sword API Primer, but it doesn't help me much. It seems to be rather old and out of date. Is there any better documentation on how to use the API? 3. I can read C code, but C++ is a little beyond me, but which source code files should I look at for examples of how to get a text to display? That is, how to use the API to load a module, read it and display it using SWKey() etc. Any pointers would be most helpful. 4. Any other info I would need would also be gratefully received. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 02:56:25 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Derek seipp) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:56:25 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword In-Reply-To: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EEC@HANSEN-NT1> Message-ID: <000501c00664$67017960$1362010a@derekseipp> Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible time, which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows based.. Maybe this is not even possible though.. Derek -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org [mailto:owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org]On Behalf Of Chris Marsh Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 9:26 PM To: Sword-devel Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Hi all, As some may be aware, I am interested in developing a frontend for Sword in VB. This is not a major development as it is really to help me learn VB better and because I don't particularly like the current Windows front end. I also will be fitting development work in between Course commitments and family commitments, so will be fairly slow moving. I have been supplied with a Sword DLL, which is apparently quite old. I have a few questions, though: 1. Is there a new Sword DLL being created? 2. I have read the Sword API Primer, but it doesn't help me much. It seems to be rather old and out of date. Is there any better documentation on how to use the API? 3. I can read C code, but C++ is a little beyond me, but which source code files should I look at for examples of how to get a text to display? That is, how to use the API to load a module, read it and display it using SWKey() etc. Any pointers would be most helpful. 4. Any other info I would need would also be gratefully received. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 03:21:33 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Marsh) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:21:33 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Message-ID: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EF6@HANSEN-NT1> Hi, It looks like I didn't make myself clear. I wish to produce a front end for Sword in VB for my own Programming Experience. I need to learn VB for work and thought that this would be a great project to get started. I like Bibletime myself and have contributed to discussions for it's development. This VB is for myself (and if anyone else wants it). It's not going to replace using the current Sword frontend for my Theology course at this stage (and probably wouldn't be finished in time anyway). I would love to see a port of Bibletime for Windows and even thought of calling mine Bibletime, but it wouldn't do justice to the real Bibletime, so I won't. Regardless, I am just after a bit more detail than the API Primer gives. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 -----Original Message----- From: Derek seipp [mailto:dseipp@usaor.net] Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2000 12:56 To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: RE: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible time, which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows based.. Maybe this is not even possible though.. Derek -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org [mailto:owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org]On Behalf Of Chris Marsh Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 9:26 PM To: Sword-devel Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Hi all, As some may be aware, I am interested in developing a frontend for Sword in VB. This is not a major development as it is really to help me learn VB better and because I don't particularly like the current Windows front end. I also will be fitting development work in between Course commitments and family commitments, so will be fairly slow moving. I have been supplied with a Sword DLL, which is apparently quite old. I have a few questions, though: 1. Is there a new Sword DLL being created? 2. I have read the Sword API Primer, but it doesn't help me much. It seems to be rather old and out of date. Is there any better documentation on how to use the API? 3. I can read C code, but C++ is a little beyond me, but which source code files should I look at for examples of how to get a text to display? That is, how to use the API to load a module, read it and display it using SWKey() etc. Any pointers would be most helpful. 4. Any other info I would need would also be gratefully received. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 07:14:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Tsoloane Moahloli) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:14:56 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just on the Java front, what is the format of the VSS file, and is it possible for someone else to port the VerseKey class. I can do this, starting in the next few weeks if I have this format. Cheers. T. On 11-Aug-2000 Joe Walker wrote: > > Hi, > >> I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o >> the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at >> developing Palm stuff with KVM. > > Take care with the KVM. From what I can see it is > a) not a JVM and > b) a bad idea > > Not a JVM? The problem I think was that to Classload, for example > java.lang.String you also have to Classload a zillion other classes which it > references. Pop goes your 1Mb memory (or whatever). So the KVM rewrites all > the code libs to remove class inter-dependancies, and pop goes any hope of > compatibility. > > Bad idea? Well Moore Law says that in a few months Palms will have fast > StrongARMs and 64Mb of memory etc. So I'd suggest developing for a PC now > and waiting on a Palm. > > Joe. -- When was the last time you did something for the first time? Tsoloane Moahloli Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. phone +27 11 706 7054 email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 17:47:22 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:47:22 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support In-Reply-To: <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000815100118.00a45520@mail.dancris.com> --=====================_47294151==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:27 PM 8/14/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized a few >search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, multiword >searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey). You'll need the latest >CVS source to try it out. While working on search features, consider the following: 1) a button or check box for exact word. (Probably a front end issue.) This would force an RE search and add the expressions needed to mark the start and endings of words. 2) a button for logical OR. (Probably a front end issue.) This would force an RE search and place the vertical bar. 3) an exclude from results search. Like the search results search, but instead of keeping the hits and removing the others, do the opposite, remove the hits. 4) Found word list. Because the default ways of searching search for strings, not words, it would nice to be able to see what words were hit by the search string. This would go well with item 3. I have uploaded two bmps based on the Win32 front end. The newsearch.bmp shows more features and a possible new layout for the win32 search window. However, the two item in the Narrow Results line should be changed to "Must Contain" and "Must Not Contain." That could also be "Must Have" and Must Not Have." http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/search.bmp http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/newsearch.bmp Also, Win32 front end should have a Help button or Menu item. Jerry --=====================_47294151==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:27 PM 8/14/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized a few
search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, multiword
searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey).  You'll need the latest
CVS source to try it out.

While working on search features, consider the following:

1) a button or check box for exact word. (Probably a front end issue.)
        This would force an RE search and add the expressions needed
        to mark the start and endings of words.

2) a button for logical OR. (Probably a front end issue.)
        This would force an RE search and place the vertical bar.

3) an exclude from results search.
        Like the search results search, but instead of keeping the hits
        and removing the others, do the opposite, remove the hits. 

4) Found word list.
        Because the default ways of searching search for strings,
        not words, it would nice to be able to see what words were
        hit by the search string. This would go well with item 3.

I have uploaded two bmps based on the Win32 front end. The newsearch.bmp shows more features and a possible new layout for the win32 search window. However, the two item in the Narrow Results line should be changed to "Must Contain" and "Must Not Contain." That could also be "Must Have" and Must Not Have."

http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/search.bmp
http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/newsearch.bmp

Also, Win32 front end should have a Help button or Menu item.

Jerry


--=====================_47294151==_.ALT-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 17:45:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:45:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword In-Reply-To: <000501c00664$67017960$1362010a@derekseipp> Message-ID: KDE is built on Qt, which is owned by Troll Tech (a company just slightly less evil than MS ). Qt is free on *nix systems, but on Windows, it costs $1500 for the libraries so there probably won't every be any KDE libraries ported to Win32, hence no BibleTime. Cheatah might be portable, and possibly GnomeSword since they're based on GTK+ and GNOME respectively (I think) and I know GTK+ is ported to Win32 enough to run the GIMP. Then there's the wxWindows front end, which ought to be ready for compilation on Linux or Win32 since wx is crossplatform, but I've never had any luck w/ compiling the front end on Linux even. :) It certainly would be nice if we could have a group developing for both *nix and Win32 simultaneously, because the Win32 front end doesn't seem to be luring users as much as it could be. --Chris Little On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Derek seipp wrote: > Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible time, > which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... > > My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows based.. > > Maybe this is not even possible though.. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 19:18:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Co Ho) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:18:31 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] sourceforge Message-ID: <7F152EE1445DD211A92400104B8DBED0CE824E@exchange> Good work, Chris. I think we can use it for bug tracking, task delegating, and doing documentation (or atleast, the much needed FAQ you lamented about), or even releasing the modules there as well. Co Ho. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 17:04:42 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:04:42 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword In-Reply-To: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EEC@HANSEN-NT1> References: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6EEC@HANSEN-NT1> Message-ID: <00081517044200.00281@joachim> Hi Chris! > Hi all, > As some may be aware, I am interested in developing a frontend for Sword in > VB. This is not a major development as it is really to help me learn VB > better and because I don't particularly like the current Windows front end. > I also will be fitting development work in between Course commitments and > family commitments, so will be fairly slow moving. I have been supplied > with a Sword DLL, which is apparently quite old. I have a few questions, > though: > > 1. Is there a new Sword DLL being created? > 2. I have read the Sword API Primer, but it doesn't help me much. It seems > to be rather old and out of date. Is there any better documentation on how > to use the API? Mmh, you can have a look at the backend classes of BibleTime 0.3 and later (bibletime-2/bibletime/backend/sword/). There's much example code. But sadly it's C++. Feel free to ask, I'll try to give hints because you helped discussing BT 1.0's features. > 3. I can read C code, but C++ is a little beyond me, but which source code > files should I look at for examples of how to get a text to display? That > is, how to use the API to load a module, read it and display it using > SWKey() etc. Any pointers would be most helpful. > 4. Any other info I would need would also be gratefully received. > > In Christ, > > Chris Marsh > > Analyst Programmer > Hansen Corporation > Ph: (03) 9843 8438 > Fax: (03) 9843 8590 --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 21:31:44 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:31:44 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00081521314400.08085@joachim> Hi! No flamewar, ok ? > KDE is built on Qt, which is owned by Troll Tech (a company just slightly > less evil than MS ). Qt is free on *nix systems, but on Windows, it Hey, Qt is an excellent toolkit ans very good for coding (very good structure etc.). KDE2 is cool, too. See the other side: Trolltech makes this expensive available for free for Unix coers ;-) > costs $1500 for the libraries so there probably won't every be any KDE > libraries ported to Win32, hence no BibleTime. Cheatah might be portable, > and possibly GnomeSword since they're based on GTK+ and GNOME respectively > (I think) and I know GTK+ is ported to Win32 enough to run the GIMP. Then > there's the wxWindows front end, which ought to be ready for compilation > on Linux or Win32 since wx is crossplatform, but I've never had any luck > w/ compiling the front end on Linux even. :) Is somebody on this list billionaire? With some of his money we could buy Trolltech and port KDE ;-) > It certainly would be nice if we could have a group developing for both > *nix and Win32 simultaneously, because the Win32 front end doesn't seem to > be luring users as much as it could be. Why not wait until Kylix is out, it source compatible, isn't it ? > --Chris Little > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Derek seipp wrote: > > Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible > > time, which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... > > > > My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows > > based.. > > > > Maybe this is not even possible though.. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 21:04:53 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:04:53 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? References: Message-ID: <3999B075.8630B2ED@crosswire.org> Please. Many people have asked for a Java interface to our API and modules. The vss format is quite simple really. Rather than descibe it, I'd rather point you in the direction of sword/src/modules/common/rawverse.cpp This file contains the low level routines to operate on the .vss file, but basically it's a 6 byte record: struct { unsigned long offset, unsigned short size } I've been following the premise of porting class for class from C++ to Java so that someone familiar with the API could use either language with a minimum learning curve. Any comments on this? Thanks again for all the offers to help! -Troy. Tsoloane Moahloli wrote: > > Just on the Java front, what is the format of the VSS file, and is it possible > for someone else to port the VerseKey class. I can do this, starting in the > next few weeks if I have this format. > > Cheers. > T. > On 11-Aug-2000 Joe Walker wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > >> I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o > >> the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at > >> developing Palm stuff with KVM. > > > > Take care with the KVM. From what I can see it is > > a) not a JVM and > > b) a bad idea > > > > Not a JVM? The problem I think was that to Classload, for example > > java.lang.String you also have to Classload a zillion other classes which it > > references. Pop goes your 1Mb memory (or whatever). So the KVM rewrites all > > the code libs to remove class inter-dependancies, and pop goes any hope of > > compatibility. > > > > Bad idea? Well Moore Law says that in a few months Palms will have fast > > StrongARMs and 64Mb of memory etc. So I'd suggest developing for a PC now > > and waiting on a Palm. > > > > Joe. > > -- > When was the last time you did something for the first time? > > Tsoloane Moahloli > Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. > phone +27 11 706 7054 > email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 23:21:15 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Marsh) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:21:15 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword Message-ID: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6F3E@HANSEN-NT1> > It certainly would be nice if we could have a group developing for both > *nix and Win32 simultaneously, because the Win32 front end doesn't seem to > be luring users as much as it could be. Why not wait until Kylix is out, it source compatible, isn't it ? What an idea! Delphi is my choice anyway, VB is just for Work. I might start work in Delphi, I was having trouble with the old Delphi code though, but I might just take another look....:) Chris Marsh > --Chris Little > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Derek seipp wrote: > > Forgive my ignorance, but the interface for the KDE version of Bible > > time, which is apparently a front end to Sword, is VERY cool... > > > > My 2c work on porting that interface to C or whatever for windows > > based.. > > > > Maybe this is not even possible though.. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 06:39:05 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Tsoloane Moahloli) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:39:05 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? In-Reply-To: <3999B075.8630B2ED@crosswire.org> Message-ID: I'll have a look at it. I am currently stuck in a project at work that is in it's last throes, but I should be done be the end of August and I should have a little respite!! On 15-Aug-2000 Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Please. Many people have asked for a Java interface to our API and > modules. The vss format is quite simple really. Rather than descibe > it, I'd rather point you in the direction of > sword/src/modules/common/rawverse.cpp This file contains the low level > routines to operate on the .vss file, but basically it's a 6 byte > record: struct { unsigned long offset, unsigned short size } > > I've been following the premise of porting class for class from C++ to > Java so that someone familiar with the API could use either language > with a minimum learning curve. Any comments on this? > > Thanks again for all the offers to help! > > -Troy. > > > > > Tsoloane Moahloli wrote: >> >> Just on the Java front, what is the format of the VSS file, and is it >> possible >> for someone else to port the VerseKey class. I can do this, starting in >> the >> next few weeks if I have this format. >> >> Cheers. >> T. >> On 11-Aug-2000 Joe Walker wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> >> I'm most interested in redoing my PERL CGI script as a Java servlet w/o >> >> the need to run a command-line tool as the CGI does. I'm also looking at >> >> developing Palm stuff with KVM. >> > >> > Take care with the KVM. From what I can see it is >> > a) not a JVM and >> > b) a bad idea >> > >> > Not a JVM? The problem I think was that to Classload, for example >> > java.lang.String you also have to Classload a zillion other classes which >> > it >> > references. Pop goes your 1Mb memory (or whatever). So the KVM rewrites >> > all >> > the code libs to remove class inter-dependancies, and pop goes any hope of >> > compatibility. >> > >> > Bad idea? Well Moore Law says that in a few months Palms will have fast >> > StrongARMs and 64Mb of memory etc. So I'd suggest developing for a PC now >> > and waiting on a Palm. >> > >> > Joe. >> >> -- >> When was the last time you did something for the first time? >> >> Tsoloane Moahloli >> Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. >> phone +27 11 706 7054 >> email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za -- When was the last time you did something for the first time? Tsoloane Moahloli Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. phone +27 11 706 7054 email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 08:04:22 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Kri=B9tof?= Petr) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:04:22 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] VB Frontend for Sword References: <00081521314400.08085@joachim> Message-ID: <399A4B06.15E72A4B@Kristof.CZ> Joachim Ansorg wrote: > Hi! > > No flamewar, ok ? > > > KDE is built on Qt, which is owned by Troll Tech (a company just slightly > > less evil than MS ). Qt is free on *nix systems, but on Windows, it > > Hey, Qt is an excellent toolkit ans very good for coding (very good structure > etc.). KDE2 is cool, too. > See the other side: Trolltech makes this expensive available for free for > Unix coers ;-) > > > costs $1500 for the libraries so there probably won't every be any KDE > > libraries ported to Win32, hence no BibleTime. Cheatah might be portable, > > and possibly GnomeSword since they're based on GTK+ and GNOME respectively > > (I think) and I know GTK+ is ported to Win32 enough to run the GIMP. Then > > there's the wxWindows front end, which ought to be ready for compilation > > on Linux or Win32 since wx is crossplatform, but I've never had any luck > > w/ compiling the front end on Linux even. :) > > Is somebody on this list billionaire? With some of his money we could buy > Trolltech and port KDE ;-) > Windows version is free for universities. http://www.trolltech.com/company/announce/edu.html P. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 15 22:53:54 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:53:54 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support In-Reply-To: <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00081522151100.17933@joachim> Hi Troy! A very good thing this fast search! Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than normal search before. I'm using this code and I think it's correct . Is it? if (!module->isSearchOptimallySupported( text.latin1(), searchType, searchParams, myScope) ) { //rebuild search framework if it's available if (module->hasSearchFramework()) { module->createSearchFramework(); } } for (ListKey &searchResultList = module->Search(text.latin1(), searchType, searchParams, myScope); !searchResultList.Error(); searchResultList++) { //handling with own classes, creating search result items of a list etc. } A bug: After I created the index using createSEarchFrameWork() it won' be registered until next restart! I mean that hasSearchFrameWork returns false until next restart. I measured with and without index files and noticed taht searching takes evenlonger as before for often used words like god or jesus, but is very fast for words like "testing" (they appear very very rare). --Joachim > OK, > fixed a few bugs. Any early testers should update their CVS tree and > make clean; make > > -Troy. > > "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > OK Joachim ;) > > > > I've added some basic search framework support and have optimized > > a few search scenerios for the RawText driver (case insensitive, > > multiword searches with a scope designated by a VerseKey). You'll need > > the latest CVS source to try it out. > > > > There is a utility: sword/utilities/mkfastmod that will create the > > search framework for a module if it is supported for the module type. > > > > *** THIS IS A REFERENCE IMPLEMENTATION. There are others much more > > capable than myself (Trevor! :) ) that could do a much better job. This > > example should make the sword aspects of the job less mystic. > > > > New/Augmented framework methods: > > > > virtual ListKey &SWModule::Search(const char *istr, int searchType = 0, > > int flags = 0, SWKey *scope = 0, bool *justCheckIfSupported = 0); > > > > justCheckIfSupported was added to allow one to see if THIS search > > routine will perform the search. This is not a check to see if the > > search is ultimately supported (maybe by the base class). > > > > virtual char SWModule::createSearchFramework(); > > > > This will ask the module to build (or rebuild) any special search > > framework that it supports. > > > > virtual bool SWModule::hasSearchFramework(); > > > > This allows one to check if the module driver supports a search > > framework. > > > > virtual bool SWModule::isSearchOptimallySupported(const char *istr, int > > searchType, int flags, SWKey *scope); > > > > This allows one to check if the search will be handled in the > > most optimized way (ie. if there is a search framework and it does not > > handle this case, this will be false) > > > > Let me know if it works! :) It compiles :) j/k Also, if there > > are any questions by anyone wishing to build a real search framework, > > please ask! > > > > -Troy. > > > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > > > My first article in this group! > > > > > > A really slow thing of SWORD is the searching part! In comparision with > > > other programs it takes too long. > > > > > > Perhaps you noticed some months ago that Trevor Jenkins offered his > > > help on this topic. > > > But nothing happened. > > > > > > My question is: How do we get a more fast searching algorithm? > > > > > > -- Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 23:41:51 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:41:51 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Template for international booknames Message-ID: <00081623415101.12334@joachim> Hi! I added a template for international booknames in sword/doc/ . I hope it's useful, it contains some help how to do the tarnslation. And I fixed a small bug in mkfastmod so it works. -Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 23:30:52 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:30:52 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> Message-ID: <399B242C.98530642@crosswire.org> > A very good thing this fast search! :) > Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than normal > search before. > > I'm using this code and I think it's correct . Is it? > > if (!module->isSearchOptimallySupported( text.latin1(), searchType, > searchParams, myScope) ) { > //rebuild search framework if it's available > if (module->hasSearchFramework()) { > module->createSearchFramework(); > } > } Not quite, maybe we should rethink the functionality of these methods. Please take some time to follow this logic closely as it can be very confusing. I had a tough time coming up with appropriate methods and probably did not do such a good job. There are many states to consider: Mod driver supports Module has framework Framework supports a framework (A) built (B) search scenerio (C) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 O O O 4.........X........................O.........................O 5 X O X 6.........X........................X.........................O 7 X X X I believe you want to offer the option to the user to build the search framework in situations 4 and 5-- condition (A) is true but condition (B) is false. Your check: if (!module->isSearchOptimallySupported( text.latin1(), searchType, searchParams, myScope) ) { tells you that a search is not handled by the optimum code. This happens in scenerios 4, 5, 6. It is useful for telling the user that their current search scenerio may take unusually long. SWModule::Search returns true to the function isSearchOptimallySupported in the case that there is no other framework to support the search. It is handled as optimum as any other search on this module. You next call seems to try to filter out scenerio 0, which is already filtered out by the first call. Instead, you should filter out the problem scenerio (6) with a call like: bool isSupported = false; module->Search( text.latin1(), searchType, searchParams, myScope, &isSupported ); if (isSupported) module->createSearchFramework(); Maybe we should provide a method like, canSearchBeOptimized(...) that takes care of both checks for the frontend programmer. Or maybe we should just offer methods that return the condition of (A), (B), and (C) as stated above and let the frontend programmer do all of the logic. > I measured with and without index files and noticed taht searching takes > evenlonger as before for often used words like god or jesus, but is very fast > for words like "testing" (they appear very very rare). You should notice an exponential increase in speed if the framework is used. Remember, only for case-INSENSITIVE, multi-word searches bound by the scope of a VerseKey. This seems to be the most popular search scenerio. Let me know how it goes. I'd love to hear if you get it working. -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 16 23:36:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Marsh) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:36:03 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] DLL Message-ID: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6FCC@HANSEN-NT1> I hate to appear pushy, but has this been done yet? If not, can someone supply instructions on how to do this and I might give it a go myself. In Christ, Chris Marsh Analyst Programmer Hansen Corporation Ph: (03) 9843 8438 Fax: (03) 9843 8590 -----Original Message----- From: scribe@crosswire.org [mailto:scribe@crosswire.org] Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2000 10:43 To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] DLL I will build a new DLL when I get back in town. The code for the DLL has not been updated for quite some time. There is a difference with other language bindings to C++. They need to be standard C procedural methods. You actually could do C++ to Delphi provided no multiple inheritance (which we do), but other languages need a standard sig on the methods in the DLL (no C++ manglings). Anyway, until I get it done, you should be able to play with a really old version on the site at: ftp://ftp.crosswire.org/pub/sword/attic/dlls.tar.gz I think it's dated '97, so beware. Though, this is probably good, since the delphi code hasn't been changed since then either :) Hope this helps. I actually need to do this anyway, since we seem to have requests for a number of other language bindings. -Troy. Chris Marsh wrote: > > What we need here is someone with c++ experience (not me, yet) to create > these DLL's for us plebs used to visual tools like Delphi & VB. I don't > even have a c++ compiler to use and certainly don't know how to create a DLL > even if I had a compiler. > > Any volunteers? > > Chris Marsh > > Analyst Programmer > Hansen Corporation > Ph: (03) 9843 8438 > Fax: (03) 9843 8590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Philip Kapusta [mailto:info@pc-shareware.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2000 8:44 > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > Subject: [sword-devel] DLL > > > But you can use DLLs generated by C++-Builder or whatever in Delphi! > > True, that is IF a DLL existed in the distribution ZIP. > > > Isn't there an DLL shipped with the SWORD windows frontend? > > No. I found not a single .DLL file in the version 1.5 package or previous > version. > > Philip > > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > www.mimesweeper.com > ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 17 02:25:07 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:25:07 -0700 Subject: Language Bindings [was Re: [sword-devel] DLL] References: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6FCC@HANSEN-NT1> Message-ID: <399B4D03.5CD27866@crosswire.org> > I hate to appear pushy, but has this been done yet? If not, can someone > supply instructions on how to do this and I might give it a go myself. My apologies for not following through on this. I would love for someone intending to use this DLL to take over the maintenance of the DLL. Actually this work will benefit all of those wishing to have other language bindings to the SWORD API. Anyone interested in this? Please volunteer. It's not much coding work to make this happen, but some imagination may be required :) There is a project file (that probably won't work with the newer versions of any of the compilers) in sword/apps/windoze/bcowl25/swordapi that was used to create the old DLL. Actually, I just looked at the code and it is pretty lame. In actuality, to do it correctly, there should be at least 2 files written: swmgrc.cpp swmodulec.cpp these should be handle-based, extern "C" declared functions of all the members of class SWMgr and SWModule. The handle should be an (unsigned long) cast of the address of the object. eg. typedef unsigned long SWOBJECT; SWOBJECT swmgr_new() { return (SWOBJECT) new SWMgr(); } void swmgr_delete(SWOBJECT mgr) { delete (SWMgr *) mgr; } You may have to get a little creative with some functionality achieved by STL: void swmgr_getmodlist(SWOBJECT mgr, char **toArray) { ... } SWOBJECT swmgr_findmod(SWOBJECT mgr, const char *modname) { ... } Any volunteers? Thoughts? -Troy. > > In Christ, > > Chris Marsh > > Analyst Programmer > Hansen Corporation > Ph: (03) 9843 8438 > Fax: (03) 9843 8590 > > -----Original Message----- > From: scribe@crosswire.org [mailto:scribe@crosswire.org] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2000 10:43 > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] DLL > > I will build a new DLL when I get back in town. The code for the DLL > has not been updated for quite some time. There is a difference with > other language bindings to C++. They need to be standard C procedural > methods. You actually could do C++ to Delphi provided no multiple > inheritance (which we do), but other languages need a standard sig on > the methods in the DLL (no C++ manglings). Anyway, until I get it done, > you should be able to play with a really old version on the site at: > ftp://ftp.crosswire.org/pub/sword/attic/dlls.tar.gz > > I think it's dated '97, so beware. Though, this is probably good, since > the delphi code hasn't been changed since then either :) > > Hope this helps. I actually need to do this anyway, since we seem to > have requests for a number of other language bindings. > > -Troy. > > Chris Marsh wrote: > > > > What we need here is someone with c++ experience (not me, yet) to create > > these DLL's for us plebs used to visual tools like Delphi & VB. I don't > > even have a c++ compiler to use and certainly don't know how to create a > DLL > > even if I had a compiler. > > > > Any volunteers? > > > > Chris Marsh > > > > Analyst Programmer > > Hansen Corporation > > Ph: (03) 9843 8438 > > Fax: (03) 9843 8590 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Philip Kapusta [mailto:info@pc-shareware.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2000 8:44 > > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > > Subject: [sword-devel] DLL > > > > > But you can use DLLs generated by C++-Builder or whatever in Delphi! > > > > True, that is IF a DLL existed in the distribution ZIP. > > > > > Isn't there an DLL shipped with the SWORD windows frontend? > > > > No. I found not a single .DLL file in the version 1.5 package or previous > > version. > > > > Philip > > > > ********************************************************************** > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > > the system manager. > > > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > > > www.mimesweeper.com > > ********************************************************************** From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 17 13:59:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Aaron Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:59:17 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] remove References: <24A02500705DD31197AC0004ACE83C3F015D6FCC@HANSEN-NT1> <399B4D03.5CD27866@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <000b01c00853$56edb2a0$8fa2fea9@isaiah> Please remove me thanks From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 17 23:13:46 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joe Walker) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:13:46 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD Java support? References: <3999B075.8630B2ED@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <399C71AA.1C5FE6B8@eireneh.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B1906975EECC0E99489BA1F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > Please. Many people have asked for a Java interface to our API and > modules. The vss format is quite simple really. Rather than descibe > it, I'd rather point you in the direction of > sword/src/modules/common/rawverse.cpp This file contains the low level > routines to operate on the .vss file, but basically it's a 6 byte > record: struct { unsigned long offset, unsigned short size } I've attached an initial stab. > I've been following the premise of porting class for class from C++ to > Java so that someone familiar with the API could use either language > with a minimum learning curve. Any comments on this? There are 2 versions - RawVerse follows your approach, and SwordBible re-does the i/f My 2c? >From my point of view, closeness to the sword API won't help me much because I don't know a huge amount about Sword. But I would be helped from a clean i/f which I would not get from a close port. A good example is findoffset() which has 2 return params - not possible in Java. You'll see I chose to create a quick Location inner class to get around the problem, but it does make life messy. The alternative in SwordBible just has a getText() method which is far cleaner. But I'm biased because I don't know Sword internals very well. (However I guess I'm learning fairly rapidly) So the concensus may be different. The reading works. The writing has not been tested, and will fail due to endian problems. There was a few bits of code to quietly tidy up if something went wrong that i missed out in both versions because normally I want to know sooner rather than later if it is broken. This is fine for testing but the approach for 'live' may be different. Open to your thoughts. Joe. --------------B1906975EECC0E99489BA1F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="RawVerse.java" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RawVerse.java" package com.eireneh.bible.book.sword; import java.io.*; /** * Code for class 'RawVerse'- a module that reads raw text files * ot and nt using indexs ??.bks ??.cps ??.vss and provides lookup and parsing * functions based on class VerseKey */ public class RawVerse { /** constant for the introduction */ public static final int TESTAMENT_INTRO = 0; /** constant for the old testament */ public static final int TESTAMENT_OLD = 1; /** constant for the new testament */ public static final int TESTAMENT_NEW = 2; /** * RawVerse Constructor - Initializes data for instance of RawVerse * @param path - path of the directory where data and index files are located. * be sure to include the trailing separator (e.g. '/' or '\') * (e.g. 'modules/texts/rawtext/webster/') */ public RawVerse(String path) throws FileNotFoundException { idx_raf[TESTAMENT_OLD] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "ot.vss", "r"); idx_raf[TESTAMENT_NEW] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "nt.vss", "r"); txt_raf[TESTAMENT_OLD] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "ot", "r"); txt_raf[TESTAMENT_NEW] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "nt", "r"); // The original had a dtor that did the equiv of .close()ing the above // I'm not sure that there is a delete type ability in Book.java and // the finalizer for RandomAccessFile will do it anyway so for the // moment I'm going to ignore this. // The original also stored the path, but I don't think it ever used it // The original also kept an instance count, which went unused (and I // noticed in a few other places so it is either c&p or a pattern? // Either way the assumption that there is only one of a static is not // safe in many java environments (servlets, ejbs at least) so I've // deleted it } /** * Finds the offset of the key verse from the indexes * @param testament testament to find (0 - Bible/module introduction) * @param idxoff offset into .vss * @param start address to store the starting offset * @param size address to store the size of the entry */ public Location findOffset(int testament, long idxoff) throws IOException { Location loc = new Location(); // There was a bodge here to move testament around if someone wanted // to read the intro? We just have the set of static finals above // if (testament == 0) // testament = idx_raf[1] == null ? 1 : 2; // There was a test here to check ensure that is idx_raf[testament-1] // was null then we returned an default Location (of 0,0). However // This seems like papering over any errors so I have left it out for // the time being // I've now totally re-written this because we did have byte-sex // problems. The file is little endian, and we read big endianly. // read the next 6 byes. idx_raf[testament].seek(idxoff*6); byte[] read = new byte[6]; idx_raf[testament].readFully(read); int[] temp = new int[6]; for (int i=0; i= 0 ? read[i] : 256 + read[i]; System.out.println("temp["+i+"]="+temp[i]); } loc.start = (temp[3] << 24) | (temp[2] << 16) | (temp[1] << 8) | temp[0]; loc.size = (temp[5] << 8) | temp[4]; // the original lseek used SEEK_SET. This is the only option in Java // The *6 is because we use 4 bytes for the offset, and 2 for the length // There used to be some code at the start of the method like: // idxoff *= 6; // But itn't good to alter parameters and here is the only place that // it is used. // There was some BIGENDIAN swapping stuff here. To be honest I // can't be bothered to think about whether or not this is needed // right now. // *start = lelong(*start); // *size = leshort(*size); // There was also some code here to patch over any errors if you // could only read one of the 2 bytes from above. I'm not sure that // that is a good idea, so I've left it out. return loc; } /** * Gets text at a given offset. * @param testament testament file to search in (0 - Old; 1 - New) * @param loc Where to read from */ public String getText(int testament, Location loc) throws IOException { // The original had the size param as an unsigned short. // It also used SEEK_SET as above (default in Java) byte[] buffer = new byte[loc.size]; txt_raf[testament].seek(loc.start); txt_raf[testament].read(buffer); // We should probably think about encodings here? return new String(buffer); } /** * Prepares the text before returning it to external objects * @param buf buffer where text is stored and where to store the prep'd text */ protected String prepText(String text) { StringBuffer buf = new StringBuffer(text); boolean space = false; boolean cr = false; boolean realdata = false; char nlcnt = 0; int to = 0; for (int from=0; from 1) { // buf.setCharAt(to++, nl); buf.setCharAt(to++, '\n'); // nlcnt = 0; } continue; case 13: if (!realdata) continue; buf.setCharAt(to++, '\n'); space = false; cr = true; continue; } realdata = true; nlcnt = 0; if (space) { space = false; if (buf.charAt(from) != ' ') { buf.setCharAt(to++, ' '); from--; continue; } } buf.setCharAt(to++, buf.charAt(from)); } // This next line just ensured that we were null terminated. // buf.setCharAt(to, '\0'); // There followed a lot of code that stomed \o to the end of the // string if there was whitespace there. trim() is easier. return buf.toString().trim(); } /** * Sets text for current offset * @param testament testament to find (0 - Bible/module introduction) * @param idxoff offset into .vss * @param buf buffer to store */ protected void setText(int testament, long idxoff, String buf) throws IOException { // As in getText() we don't alter the formal parameter // idxoff *= 6; // As in getText() There was some messing around with testament // if (testament == 0) // testament = idx_raf[1] == null ? 1 : 2; // outsize started off being unsigned // and it looks like "unsigned short size;" is not used short outsize = (short) buf.length(); // There was some more BIGENDIAN nonsense here. Again ignoring the // MACOSX bits it looked like: // start = lelong(start); // outsize = leshort(size); // I've also moved things around very slightly, the endian bits came // just before the writeShort(); idx_raf[testament].seek(idxoff*6); long start = idx_raf[testament].readLong(); idx_raf[testament].writeShort(outsize); // There is some encoding stuff to be thought about here byte[] data = buf.getBytes(); txt_raf[testament].seek(start); txt_raf[testament].write(data); } /** * Creates new module files * @param path Directory to store module files */ public static void createModule(String path) throws IOException { truncate(path + "ot.vss"); truncate(path + "nt.vss"); truncate(path + "ot"); truncate(path + "nt"); // I'm not at all sure what these did. I'd guess they wrote data to // the files we just created? But how they'd neatly (or otherwise) go // about this is beyond me right now. // RawVerse rv(path); // VerseKey mykey("Rev 22:21"); } /** * Create an empty file, deleting what was there */ private static void truncate(String filename) throws IOException { // The original code did something like this. I recon this basically // deleted and recreated (empty) the named file. // unlink(buf); // fd = FileMgr::systemFileMgr.open(buf, O_CREAT|O_WRONLY|O_BINARY, S_IREAD|S_IWRITE); // FileMgr::systemFileMgr.close(fd); File file = new File(filename); file.delete(); file.createNewFile(); } /** * There has to be a better method than this. findoffset() returned a start * and and offset, and multiple return values are not possible in Java. * It seems to me that returning start and size from a public i/f represents * showing our callers more than we should and I expect that the solution * lies in a thorough sorting out if the interface, but I want to keep * the methods unchanged as reasonable right now. */ public class Location { /** Where does the data start */ public long start = 0; /** The data length. Is short long enough? the original was unsigned short */ public int size = 0; /** * Debug only */ public String toString() { return "start="+start+", size="+size; } } /** * A test program */ public static void main(String[] args) { try { // To start with I'm going to hard code the path String path = "/usr/apps/sword/modules/texts/rawtext/kjv/"; RawVerse verse = new RawVerse(path); Location loc = verse.findOffset(RawVerse.TESTAMENT_NEW, 6); String pre = verse.getText(RawVerse.TESTAMENT_NEW, loc); System.out.println("loc="+loc); System.out.println("pre="+pre); System.out.println("post="+verse.prepText(pre)); } catch (Exception ex) { ex.printStackTrace(); } } /** The array of index files */ private RandomAccessFile[] idx_raf = new RandomAccessFile[3]; /** The array of data files */ private RandomAccessFile[] txt_raf = new RandomAccessFile[3]; } --------------B1906975EECC0E99489BA1F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="SwordBible.java" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SwordBible.java" package com.eireneh.bible.book.sword; import java.io.*; /** * */ public class SwordBible { /** constant for the introduction */ public static final int TESTAMENT_INTRO = 0; /** constant for the old testament */ public static final int TESTAMENT_OLD = 1; /** constant for the new testament */ public static final int TESTAMENT_NEW = 2; /** * Open the sword data files. * @param path - path of the directory where data and index files are located. */ public SwordBible(String path) throws FileNotFoundException { idx_raf[TESTAMENT_OLD] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "ot.vss", "r"); idx_raf[TESTAMENT_NEW] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "nt.vss", "r"); txt_raf[TESTAMENT_OLD] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "ot", "r"); txt_raf[TESTAMENT_NEW] = new RandomAccessFile(path + "nt", "r"); } /** * Finds the offset of the key verse from the indexes * @param testament testament to find (0 - Bible/module introduction) * @param idxoff offset into .vss * @param start address to store the starting offset * @param size address to store the size of the entry */ public String getText(int testament, long idxoff) throws IOException { long start; int size; // Read the next 6 byes. idx_raf[testament].seek(idxoff*6); byte[] read = new byte[6]; idx_raf[testament].readFully(read); // Un-2s-complement them int[] temp = new int[6]; for (int i=0; i= 0 ? read[i] : 256 + read[i]; } // The data is little endian - extract the start and size start = (temp[3] << 24) | (temp[2] << 16) | (temp[1] << 8) | temp[0]; size = (temp[5] << 8) | temp[4]; // Read from the data file. // I wonder if it would be safe to do a readLine() from here. // Probably be safer not to risk it since we know how long it is. byte[] buffer = new byte[size]; txt_raf[testament].seek(start); txt_raf[testament].read(buffer); // We should probably think about encodings here? return new String(buffer); } /** The array of index files */ private RandomAccessFile[] idx_raf = new RandomAccessFile[3]; /** The array of data files */ private RandomAccessFile[] txt_raf = new RandomAccessFile[3]; /** * Quick test program */ public static void main(String[] args) { try { // To start with I'm going to hard code the path String path = "/usr/apps/sword/modules/texts/rawtext/kjv/"; SwordBible data = new SwordBible(path); String text = data.getText(SwordBible.TESTAMENT_NEW, 6); System.out.println("text="+text); } catch (Exception ex) { ex.printStackTrace(); } } } --------------B1906975EECC0E99489BA1F1-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 18 02:14:31 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:14:31 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> Message-ID: <399C9C07.F8A9712A@crosswire.org> > Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than normal > search before. Joachim and others, Did you get the framework searching to work? You can see it by building cheatah and running a search for "God love world" in your module that you ran mkfastmod on. Cheatah's default search works with the framework. Then click the "Case Sensitive" checkbox and the framework will NOT be used. You can compare this way. If the latter search is quicker, your module is not setup correctly for the search framework (please check permissions of the files, this was the last bug I fixed in the index generator). The old search does a strstr or stristr (my homebrewed algorithm that is not so fast) for case-insensitive searches. On my box, cheatah will do this search on BBE the old way in (after first occurance) about 1 second. Using the framework the delay is only about 1/10th of a second (after the first occurance). -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 18 02:22:18 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:22:18 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> Message-ID: <399C9DDA.EA62B14B@crosswire.org> > Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than normal > search before. OK!!!!! I just tried what you said with commonly used words, like: is This takes longer with the framework. Something is strange. My suspision is that it is with an STL call that I'm using. Here's a good test: Search for: God Result: takes a long time with the framework Search for: God love world Result: fast with the framework This is very strange as the latter search really makes 3 calls to the framework, one for 'God', one for 'love', and one for 'world'. It should take much longer if the framework is slow, and should always take much longer than the first. My suspicion is that it much be in prepping the results for return as the first has a much larger result set than the second. I'll look into it. Sorry for not getting this right yet. -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 18 03:33:18 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:33:18 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <39986427.5EFA3392@crosswire.org> <39989A1D.B7756249@crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> <399C9DDA.EA62B14B@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <399CAE7E.E0DFDF34@crosswire.org> One more time, Sorry for all the traffic. I've done some preliminary profiling on the 1.5.x thread. Found some ugly things that were going on with the locale functionality and added a cache. I've removed the top 2 timehogs from the prof report and found that things are a little more of what I had expected from the search mechanism. Still not as fast as I would like with searches that return large datasets, but it is much better. These changes should speed up things throughout the library. They may also break things thoughout the library :) So please let me know if you notice any strange behaviour-- especially with locale features. -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 00:33:57 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:33:57 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support In-Reply-To: <399C9C07.F8A9712A@crosswire.org> References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> <399C9C07.F8A9712A@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00081817562600.08032@joachim> Hi! > > Maybe I'm wrong, but at first gflances I think it's not faster than > > normal search before. > > Joachim and others, > Did you get the framework searching to work? You can see it by > building cheatah and running a search for "God love world" in your > module that you ran mkfastmod on. Cheatah's default search works with > the framework. Then click the "Case Sensitive" checkbox and the > framework will NOT be used. You can compare this way. If the latter > search is quicker, your module is not setup correctly for the search > framework (please check permissions of the files, this was the last bug > I fixed in the index generator). The old search does a strstr or > stristr (my homebrewed algorithm that is not so fast) for > case-insensitive searches. > > > On my box, cheatah will do this search on BBE the old way in (after > first occurance) about 1 second. Using the framework the delay is only > about 1/10th of a second (after the first occurance). 1 second without indexing? What do you have for a expensive PC ? ;-) My PC (AMD K6-2 400@300, 128MB Ram) needs some seonds! BibleTime does now work with the indexing mechanism, it's not so fast as cheatah but much more fast than before. Often used take very lomg. BTW, Sword does behace strange now i you search the GerBen module for "God love world", it shows some thousand 1. Mose 0:1 and some Revelation entries (over 10000 found entries). > -Troy. --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 01:00:55 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 01:00:55 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Idea for searching Message-ID: <00081901005500.25588@joachim> Hi Troy! Is it somehow possible to introduce a mechanism to set the current percent of searched entried? This would be useful for frentends like BibleTime to show the user how much was already searched. Ideas? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 03:54:32 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:54:32 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Idea for searching References: <00081901005500.25588@joachim> Message-ID: <399E04F8.C03631E@crosswire.org> > Is it somehow possible to introduce a mechanism to set the current percent of > searched entried? This would be useful for frentends like BibleTime to show > the user how much was already searched. Ok, try it out. It's in CVS. See sword/examples/cmdline/search.cpp for an example of how to use. -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 09:25:38 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 02:25:38 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <00081522151100.17933@joachim> <399C9C07.F8A9712A@crosswire.org> <00081817562600.08032@joachim> Message-ID: <399E5292.B969F951@crosswire.org> > 1 second without indexing? What do you have for a expensive PC ? ;-) > My PC (AMD K6-2 400@300, 128MB Ram) needs some seonds! :) I was on my box at the office. It is kindof a beefy machine. I think it's a 600 with 512megs of memory running a 2.2.16 i686 kernel. > BibleTime does now work with the indexing mechanism, it's not so fast as > cheatah but much more fast than before. I wonder why cheatah would be faster. Are you sure that you are using indexing? The search for "God love world" should be instantanious. > Often used take very lomg. Large result sets? > BTW, Sword does behace strange now i you search the GerBen module for "God > love world", it shows some thousand 1. Mose 0:1 and some Revelation entries > (over 10000 found entries). Did you index this module? Or is it running the traditional search? -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 19 23:21:02 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:21:02 EDT Subject: [sword-devel] To-Do: RFC Message-ID: I was browsing the To-Do list on the SWORD web site and ran accross this one: -Research free Rich Text Format (RTF) controls for X/Window, WIN16, and MAC/OS Could someone explain to me what is being looked for? I am not a programmer (yet) but am good with computers, so just consider that when you respond. Thanks. -John BJW7TOAEM@aol.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 20 12:53:04 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:53:04 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] fast searching support In-Reply-To: <399E5292.B969F951@crosswire.org> References: <8n48hi$i5b$2@www.crosswire.org> <00081817562600.08032@joachim> <399E5292.B969F951@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082012530401.22368@joachim> Hi Troy! > > 1 second without indexing? What do you have for a expensive PC ? ;-) > > My PC (AMD K6-2 400@300, 128MB Ram) needs some seonds! > > > :) I was on my box at the office. It is kindof a beefy machine. I > > think it's a 600 with 512megs of memory running a 2.2.16 i686 kernel. Nice thing. > > BibleTime does now work with the indexing mechanism, it's not so fast as > > cheatah but much more fast than before. > I wonder why cheatah would be faster. Are you sure that you are using > indexing? The search for "God love world" should be instantanious. I'm using indexing. IMHO the slower speed is related to our object tree model. We create a a list of found items. Each found key has an own object. Creating it takes some time. I's a thing we should improve. > > Often used take very lomg. > > Large result sets? Yes. > > BTW, Sword does behace strange now i you search the GerBen module for > > "God love world", it shows some thousand 1. Mose 0:1 and some Revelation > > entries (over 10000 found entries). > > Did you index this module? Or is it running the traditional search? If I use "Case sensitive" search it works correctly, but If I use "non-case-sensitive" search so the index-stuff is enabled it doesn't work. You can test it in cheatah. BTW, the GerBen module does only have a New testament, the old is empty. Maybe this is causing the problem? > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 21 19:41:30 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Martin Gruner) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:41:30 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] problem report Message-ID: <00082121402900.32066@marten> Hi Troy, I seem to run into a problem while I am trying to use your interface for search progress displaying. You provided a callback function. I implemented it like this: unsigned int cms_currentProgress = 0; void percentUpdate(char percent, void *p){ cms_currentProgress = (unsigned int) percent; ... } Now th eproblem is, that cms_currentProgress will have values higher than 100 (max. 127) and lower than zero (min -127). Is this my fault (I am not a good programmer, so I might have done some stupid mistake)? Please give me some advice. Thank you for all your efforts for the kingdom of God. Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 02:12:27 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:12:27 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] problem report References: <00082121402900.32066@marten> Message-ID: <39A1E18B.6A742011@crosswire.org> No, this is not your problem. If it returns anything outside of 0-100, it is my bug. Could you try to reproduce the problem with sword/examples/cmdline/search.cpp. Maybe just add cout << (unsigned int) percent in the update function and show me the case where it is outside of the valid range. I will look into why this happens. There were some early problems that might have caused this, but if you have updated within the last few days, they should be fixed. Thanks for being my beta tester :) -Troy. PS. I added the void *userData parameter for you, thinking it would help with multiple threads, you could pass the thread handle, or maybe the actual pointer to the meter control that you want to set for this thread, or something else useful. Anyway, let me know if there is anything I could do to make your life easier. > I seem to run into a problem while I am trying to use your interface for > search progress displaying. You provided a callback function. > I implemented it like this: > > unsigned int cms_currentProgress = 0; > > void percentUpdate(char percent, void *p){ > cms_currentProgress = (unsigned int) percent; > ... > } > > Now th eproblem is, that cms_currentProgress will have values higher than 100 > (max. 127) and lower than zero (min -127). Is this my fault (I am not a good > programmer, so I might have done some stupid mistake)? > > Please give me some advice. > > Thank you for all your efforts for the kingdom of God. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 02:24:30 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Geoffrey Hastings) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: No subject Message-ID: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> I got this off the TOLBSS discussion board. I thought it was interesting. Article: By the way, I'm not suggesting this software is any better...I'm just saying it's a way to get the NIV (which isn't my favorite translation or anything) without paying the OLB $30 royalty (or whatever it is now) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Replying to Original Article: Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come with a CD... On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the software containing the entire NIV with all the footnotes. If you register the software at: http://www.zondervaninteractive.com/info.htm You get the Zondervan Inspirational Readings add-on module free. Also on all of those CD's, you get the Merriam Webster Reference Library, which gives you the Merriam Webster Dictionary, Thesaurus, and American Concise Encyclopedia. Just thought I'd let you all know God bless, Michael From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 02:29:58 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Geoffrey Hastings) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] NKJV Message-ID: <391038818.966911398527.JavaMail.root@web649-wra> I also gleaned this out of another post on TOLBSS discussion board. I am assuming the help file spoken of is on the OLB CD. I am wondering if this means they just paid a one time only royalty fee. The message below is from the questions section of the help file: You are free to loan your CD to your friends to copy the material onto their hard drive. Please do not copy the NKJV as we prepaid the royalty for it. Geoff Hastings GeoffreyHastings@juno.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 09:16:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Martin Gruner) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:16:47 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] problem report In-Reply-To: <39A1E18B.6A742011@crosswire.org> References: <00082121402900.32066@marten> <39A1E18B.6A742011@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082211164701.00206@marten> Hi Troy, thanks for your response. Sorry to say, but I can't reproduce the error with search.cpp - it works fine there. But I created some debugging output with bibletime. I perform a multiword case insensitive search in the GerLut module with search prase "amen". The callback functin looks like: staic char old_p; void percentUpdate(char percent, void *p){ if (percent != old_p){ old_p = percent; debug(QString("%1 o/o").arg( (int) percent ) ); (...) } } Debugging output (the percentage values): 2 o/o 5 o/o 6 o/o 7 o/o 8 o/o 9 o/o 10 o/o 11 o/o 12 o/o 13 o/o 14 o/o 15 o/o 16 o/o 17 o/o 18 o/o 19 o/o 20 o/o 21 o/o 22 o/o 23 o/o 24 o/o 25 o/o 26 o/o 27 o/o 28 o/o 29 o/o 30 o/o 31 o/o 32 o/o 33 o/o 34 o/o 35 o/o 36 o/o 37 o/o 38 o/o 39 o/o 40 o/o 41 o/o 42 o/o 43 o/o 44 o/o 45 o/o 46 o/o 47 o/o 48 o/o 49 o/o 50 o/o 51 o/o 52 o/o 53 o/o 54 o/o 55 o/o 56 o/o 57 o/o 58 o/o 59 o/o 60 o/o 61 o/o 62 o/o 63 o/o 64 o/o 65 o/o 66 o/o 67 o/o 68 o/o 69 o/o 70 o/o 71 o/o 72 o/o 73 o/o 74 o/o 75 o/o 76 o/o 77 o/o 78 o/o 79 o/o 80 o/o 81 o/o 82 o/o 83 o/o 84 o/o 85 o/o 86 o/o 87 o/o 88 o/o 89 o/o 90 o/o 91 o/o 92 o/o 93 o/o 94 o/o 95 o/o 96 o/o 97 o/o 98 o/o 99 o/o 100 o/o 101 o/o 102 o/o 103 o/o 104 o/o 105 o/o 106 o/o 107 o/o 108 o/o 109 o/o 110 o/o 111 o/o 112 o/o 113 o/o 114 o/o 115 o/o 116 o/o 117 o/o 118 o/o 119 o/o 120 o/o 121 o/o 122 o/o 123 o/o 124 o/o 125 o/o 126 o/o 127 o/o -128 o/o -127 o/o -126 o/o -125 o/o -124 o/o -123 o/o -122 o/o -121 o/o -120 o/o -119 o/o -118 o/o -117 o/o -116 o/o -115 o/o -114 o/o -113 o/o -112 o/o -111 o/o -110 o/o -109 o/o -108 o/o -107 o/o -106 o/o -105 o/o -104 o/o -103 o/o -102 o/o -101 o/o -100 o/o -99 o/o -98 o/o -97 o/o 45 o/o 46 o/o 47 o/o 48 o/o 49 o/o 50 o/o 51 o/o 52 o/o 53 o/o 54 o/o 55 o/o 56 o/o 57 o/o 58 o/o 59 o/o 60 o/o 61 o/o 62 o/o 63 o/o 64 o/o 65 o/o 66 o/o 67 o/o 68 o/o 69 o/o 70 o/o 71 o/o 72 o/o 73 o/o 74 o/o 75 o/o 76 o/o 77 o/o 78 o/o 79 o/o 80 o/o 81 o/o 82 o/o 83 o/o 84 o/o 85 o/o 86 o/o 87 o/o 88 o/o 89 o/o 90 o/o 91 o/o 92 o/o 93 o/o 94 o/o 95 o/o 96 o/o 97 o/o 98 o/o 100 o/o ???????????????? Am Die, 22 Aug 2000 schrieb Troy A. Griffitts: > No, this is not your problem. If it returns anything outside of 0-100, > it is my bug. Could you try to reproduce the problem with > sword/examples/cmdline/search.cpp. Maybe just add cout << (unsigned > int) percent in the update function and show me the case where it is > outside of the valid range. I will look into why this happens. There > were some early problems that might have caused this, but if you have > updated within the last few days, they should be fixed. Thanks for > being my beta tester :) > > -Troy. > > PS. I added the void *userData parameter for you, thinking it would > help with multiple threads, you could pass the thread handle, or maybe > the actual pointer to the meter control that you want to set for this > thread, or something else useful. Anyway, let me know if there is > anything I could do to make your life easier. > > > I seem to run into a problem while I am trying to use your interface for > > search progress displaying. You provided a callback function. > > I implemented it like this: > > > > unsigned int cms_currentProgress = 0; > > > > void percentUpdate(char percent, void *p){ > > cms_currentProgress = (unsigned int) percent; > > ... > > } > > > > Now th eproblem is, that cms_currentProgress will have values higher than > > 100 (max. 127) and lower than zero (min -127). Is this my fault (I am not > > a good programmer, so I might have done some stupid mistake)? > > > > Please give me some advice. > > > > Thank you for all your efforts for the kingdom of God. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 09:33:51 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Fausto Saporito) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:33:51 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] hebrew font Message-ID: <002c01c00c1c$1519e4d0$3015a8c0@fausto> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C00C2C.D8594FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I just downloaded the win32 package of sword, and i'm currently using = the linux version. But I have a problem with both version: how can I display hebrew fonts? The greek fonts works very well under windows, but the hebrew doesnt' = work. Which font I need? I have webhebrew true type font, but doesn't work. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C00C2C.D8594FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
 
I just downloaded the win32 package of = sword, and=20 i'm currently using the linux version.
But I have a problem with both version: = how can I=20 display hebrew fonts?
The greek fonts works very well under = windows, but=20 the hebrew doesnt' work.
 
Which font I need?
 
I have webhebrew true type font, but = doesn't=20 work.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C00C2C.D8594FC0-- From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 22 23:03:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:03:47 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: In-Reply-To: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000822154409.00a4d170@mail.dancris.com> I bought a box, and it does have the NIV software in with the Merriam Webster Reference Set. It looks good. Some things remind me of the Sword--Bookmarks and Custom Range. The search window is nice. Jerry At 10:24 PM 8/21/2000 -0400, Geoffrey Hastings wrote: >Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come >with a CD... > >On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or >Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) > >But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV >Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the >software containing the >entire NIV with all the footnotes. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 23 14:09:09 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Darren DeMeulenaere) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:09:09 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: References: <4.2.0.58.20000822154409.00a4d170@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <39A3DB05.AC2F8258@ally.com> Me too. It looks nice. On top of that I got Amazon 3D installed. Whipee. Jerry Hastings wrote: > I bought a box, and it does have the NIV software in with the Merriam > Webster Reference Set. It looks good. Some things remind me of the > Sword--Bookmarks and Custom Range. The search window is nice. > > Jerry > > At 10:24 PM 8/21/2000 -0400, Geoffrey Hastings wrote: > > >Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come > >with a CD... > > > >On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or > >Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) > > > >But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV > >Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the > >software containing the > >entire NIV with all the footnotes. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 24 01:53:11 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Frances) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:53:11 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000823185123.00aad830@pop3.ispchannel.com> auth 4f9099c3 subscribe sword-devel greatoma@ispchannel.com From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 24 18:11:10 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Hastings, Geoffrey W) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:11:10 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Bug: Message-ID: <4178FC20DA0DD11185DB00805FBE417303C8E04D@xch-aub-08.ca.boeing.com> If you right click on the first word in a verse to look it up in the dictionary; the verse number is added in front of the word preventing the dictionary from finding it. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 24 23:59:52 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:59:52 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] fun stuff Message-ID: <39A5B6F8.BB6F18CB@crosswire.org> Hey, Got my matrox G400 at work to display X dual-head at 1280x1024 each monitor (32bit color) :) Brought VMWare up and tweaked with the WIN98 registry a bit. Though I couldn't get it running much higher than 2364x1012, check out the real-estate on this screen shot. (some of you may have to scroll) :) http://www.crosswire.org/troy/sshot.jpg -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 25 02:32:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] next release of curses port Message-ID: <200008250232.WAA01350@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Hi, I just wanted to say that I am putting out my latest revision of the curses frontend for sword (irenaeus) on sourceforge.net. The main change that I have made is that the front end now acts like it has several 'virtual terminals' like the virtual consoles of linux. Switch between them with number keys. May seem like a strange interface, but once I get more things working, I think it will make some sense. Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Fri Aug 25 07:02:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael A Hamblin) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 02:02:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [sword-devel] fun stuff In-Reply-To: <39A5B6F8.BB6F18CB@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Now that's what I want my setup to look like! :) I was fighting video cards trying to get a combination that'd do that last week but all my PCI cards are too old and with tuition I didn't feel like buying a replacement just yet. Well good to know the Bible man does get a moment to goof off once in a while :) On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Got my matrox G400 at work to display X dual-head at 1280x1024 each > monitor (32bit color) :) > Brought VMWare up and tweaked with the WIN98 registry a bit. Though I > couldn't get it running much higher than 2364x1012, check out the > real-estate on this screen shot. (some of you may have to scroll) :) > > http://www.crosswire.org/troy/sshot.jpg -- Michael Hamblin http://www.utdallas.edu/~michaelh/ michaelh@utdallas.edu http://www.ductape.net/ UTD Linux User Group Technical and Communications Services "Why would I want any more?" -Stavesacre From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 26 22:01:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:01:48 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale Message-ID: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> Hi! BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr changes of the lookup string. For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, but Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD releases. Is this a problem witht the changes of the locale support you mentioned? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sat Aug 26 23:51:08 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:51:08 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags Message-ID: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> Hi! I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. I tried to make some improvements, but failed. I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about the tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB module does contain these tags. But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it stripped away somewhere else? I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 00:14:06 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:14:06 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Vines Message-ID: <00082700140601.31412@joachim> Hi Troy! While browsing Crosswires FTP I notices that there are (were) 0-byte files called vine.zip and vines.zip in the modules directory. I moved them in my home directory. If you dislike removing the files please move them back from /home/jansorg. IMHO this is the reason for some user questions about damaged files. --Joachm From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 00:02:23 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:02:23 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> Message-ID: <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> Joachim, Tried a lookup with test/parsekey Ps de It returns: Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 Seems like it works correctly. Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? :) -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi! > > BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr changes of > the lookup string. > > For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, but > Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD releases. Is this a > problem witht the changes of the locale support you mentioned? > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 04:39:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jake) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:39:40 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] RE: NIV cd In-Reply-To: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> Message-ID: Hey, I bought the cereal with the cd, but I can't find the NIV software anywhere on the cd. Can you give me the location where it is? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org [mailto:owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org]On Behalf Of Geoffrey Hastings Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 9:25 PM To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: I got this off the TOLBSS discussion board. I thought it was interesting. Article: By the way, I'm not suggesting this software is any better...I'm just saying it's a way to get the NIV (which isn't my favorite translation or anything) without paying the OLB $30 royalty (or whatever it is now) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Replying to Original Article: Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come with a CD... On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the software containing the entire NIV with all the footnotes. If you register the software at: http://www.zondervaninteractive.com/info.htm You get the Zondervan Inspirational Readings add-on module free. Also on all of those CD's, you get the Merriam Webster Reference Library, which gives you the Merriam Webster Dictionary, Thesaurus, and American Concise Encyclopedia. Just thought I'd let you all know God bless, Michael From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 14:43:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:43:16 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale In-Reply-To: <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082714431601.00317@joachim> Hi Troy! > Joachim, > Tried a lookup with > > test/parsekey Ps de > > It returns: > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > Seems like it works correctly. Yes. Looks like a bad problem of BibleTime 0.2x. It worked in earlier days. We use casts like this: Versekey *key = new VerseKey(); *key = "Psalms 1:1"; QString keystr = (const char*)*key; Maybe this is the problem? If I disable the locale support in BibleTime 0.2x it works! Using a locale it can't resolve all abbrevs (not even the english standard ones). --Joachim > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > :) You need a KDE2 prerelease (at least kdelibs) (I use CVSUP) and a Qt 2.2.0beta (I use the CVSUP module qt-copy). Have a look at www.kde.org how to get the KDE sources using CVSUP. It's the best the get all the sources using CVS or CVSUP, you know why ;-) But you can also use RPM packages or whatever. After installing KDE2 get the sources of BibleTime 1.0CVS and compile them the traditional way (./configure ; make; make install). I hope you like our new features we added afdter 0.2x! A huge difference ;-) Good luck! --Joachim > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 18:08:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:08:16 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] RE: NIV cd In-Reply-To: References: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000827110308.00a50d00@mail.dancris.com> At 11:39 PM 8/26/2000 -0500, Jake wrote: >Hey, > I bought the cereal with the cd, but I can't find the NIV software anywhere >on the cd. Can you give me the location where it is? Thanks. > On the main menu, where you choose what to install, click on the Merriam Webster Reference Library. There you will find an option to install the NIV. After installing, the Win Start button will have a Zondervan entry, which will have a shortcut to NIV. Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 19:29:06 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:29:06 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags In-Reply-To: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> References: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> Message-ID: <00082719290601.28524@joachim> I found out now that the index files of the modules are wrong. The book heading is displayed at te end of the last chapter of the book before the book with the book heading. Troy, how are the GBF .vss files generated? --Joachim > Hi! > > I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a > problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS > correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. > > I tried to make some improvements, but failed. > I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about > the tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB > module does contain these tags. > But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it > stripped away somewhere else? > > I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it > (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Sun Aug 27 19:36:27 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:36:27 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences Message-ID: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> Hi! IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like BibleTime. I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we should implement support for bible crossreferences. Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two important things: -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be formatted. At the moment every module uses it's one reference formats (GBF, RAW etc.). This is the most important issue. Otherwise we would have to add time wasting regexp mattching things etc. and every frontend has to implement it's own solutions. It's not good not to have a standard for crossreferences. -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as HTML (generated by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they should look like in PLAIN formatted text etc. In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): Reference to Genesis 1:1 Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, should we use it? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 11:40:20 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:40:20 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Re: References: <384565600.966911070452.JavaMail.root@web641-wra.mail.com> Message-ID: <39AA4FA4.6E58882D@bigfoot.com> Geoffrey Hastings wrote: > > I got this off the TOLBSS discussion board. I thought it was interesting. > > Article: > By the way, I'm not suggesting this software is any better...I'm just saying > it's a way to get the NIV (which isn't my favorite translation or anything) > without paying > the OLB $30 royalty (or whatever it is now) > > --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- > > Replying to Original Article: > > Buy a box of Cheerios (or assorted other General Mills cereals), they come > with a CD... > > On the CD is either Clue 2, Carmen Sandiego Word Detective, Lego Creator or > Amazon Trail (you can tell by the front of the box) > > But also on each CD (and NOT advertised on the box) is Zondervan's NIV > Reference Software, version 2.7.2, a fully functional version of the > software containing the > entire NIV with all the footnotes. > > If you register the software at: > > http://www.zondervaninteractive.com/info.htm > > You get the Zondervan Inspirational Readings add-on module free. > > Also on all of those CD's, you get the Merriam Webster Reference Library, > which gives you the Merriam Webster Dictionary, Thesaurus, and American > Concise > Encyclopedia. > ... Anyone want to throw one of these in the mail to Australia for me? No General Mills here... :-) Paul --------- "He must become greater; i must become less." - John 3:30 http://www.bigfoot.com/~paulgear From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 11:42:21 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:42:21 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences References: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> Message-ID: <39AA501D.31C54A24@bigfoot.com> Joachim Ansorg wrote: > ... > IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like BibleTime. > I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we should implement support > for bible crossreferences. > Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two important > things: > > -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be formatted. At the > moment every module uses it's one reference formats (GBF, RAW etc.). This is > the most important issue. Otherwise we would have to add time wasting regexp > mattching things etc. and every frontend has to implement it's own solutions. > It's not good not to have a standard for crossreferences. > > -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as HTML (generated > by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they should look like in PLAIN > formatted text etc. > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > > Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, should > we use it? Use ThML - it's all worked out for you. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. This is not a recording. :-) Paul --------- "He must become greater; i must become less." - John 3:30 http://www.bigfoot.com/~paulgear From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 15:00:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Kri=B9tof?= Petr) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:00:40 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module Message-ID: <39AA7E98.F460FC29@Kristof.CZ> Hello Troy and others. I just obtained new translation of Bible. Not exist in OLB or another format so I must make module from the scratch. Can you make public the exact step by step how to do it? What is the input format for some sword tools? I did make it to plain text, one verse per line, no headers or labels, but rawtxidx is unable to successfuly generate index files. What is the right way to make new module? Troy, you did never give qualified answer for this question if I remember correctly. Thanks Petr -- Nowhere to run. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 15:49:35 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:49:35 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences In-Reply-To: <39AA501D.31C54A24@bigfoot.com> References: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> <39AA501D.31C54A24@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <00082815493500.00271@joachim> Am Mon, 28 Aug 2000 schrieben Sie: > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > ... > > IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like > > BibleTime. I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we should > > implement support for bible crossreferences. > > Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two important > > things: > > > > -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be formatted. > > At the moment every module uses it's one reference formats (GBF, RAW > > etc.). This is the most important issue. Otherwise we would have to add > > time wasting regexp mattching things etc. and every frontend has to > > implement it's own solutions. It's not good not to have a standard for > > crossreferences. > > > > -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as HTML > > (generated by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they should > > look like in PLAIN formatted text etc. > > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): > > > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > > > > Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, > > should we use it? > > Use ThML - it's all worked out for you. > > Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. This > is not a recording. > > :-) Sure, ThML is possible. But we have a HTML widget in BibleTime, and somehow the filters like ThML2HTML have to work. And only a few modules are using ThML. Other solutions? --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 19:21:22 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Martin Gruner) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:21:22 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue Message-ID: <00082821212200.00206@marten> Another feature request: At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key (bible reference). Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the location of every single word in the module. For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this word occures in the bible. Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) idea. Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 21:35:54 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:35:54 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags References: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> <00082719290601.28524@joachim> Message-ID: <39AADB3A.D77EAD09@crosswire.org> Joachim, I believe that there is a gbfidx.cpp file somewhere that will build indices for GBF texts. -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > I found out now that the index files of the modules are wrong. The book > heading is displayed at te end of the last chapter of the book before the > book with the book heading. > > Troy, how are the GBF .vss files generated? > > --Joachim > > > Hi! > > > > I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a > > problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS > > correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. > > > > I tried to make some improvements, but failed. > > I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about > > the tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB > > module does contain these tags. > > But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it > > stripped away somewhere else? > > > > I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it > > (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Mon Aug 28 21:44:26 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:44:26 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] American Bible Society - XML Initiative Message-ID: <39AADD3A.4E174B5B@crosswire.org> I just got off the phone with Mike Perez with ABS about a new initiative that they are planning with XML. They are researching different Bible markups and hope the develop a common standard that they can get pushed through W3C. I've told them the obvious, "Check out ThML and GBF", and that we would be willing to help them at every phase of develoment. They seem to be on their toes, already. They may have an engineer subscribe to our dev forum to hear all of your lovely input (please pray for his sanity) ;) Just wanted to pass on the exiting news! -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 01:15:16 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:15:16 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <00082821212200.00206@marten> Message-ID: <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> Martin, Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching mechanism. Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly appreciated. -Troy. Martin Gruner wrote: > > Another feature request: > > At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key > (bible reference). > Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about > searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would > involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the > location of every single word in the module. > For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in > the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... > If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this > word occures in the bible. > Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded > up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You > could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. > I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) > idea. > > Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 01:35:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:35:00 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences References: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> <39AA501D.31C54A24@bigfoot.com> <00082815493500.00271@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB1344.8EB4A33A@crosswire.org> You might not like this response at first, but spend a minute or two and think about it: I've left this up to the frontend to decide how Bible references are formatted. Think about this. We have many different markup implementations for texts. These are then run through a filter that knows about the markup language, and also knows about the frontend's desired markup. Thus we have GBFHTML, etc., filters. What's the difference between assuming the filter knows how the frontend wishes to display the module, and assuming the filter know how the frontend wishes the get reference marks? Ultimately, there is a design proposal in the API ref on the website that uses an intermediate markup language to which all texts would be converted, then from this common markup, we could render to the frontend. I believe this 2 phase conversion allows much more modular and reusable filters and will solve this very issue. The API will be responsible for the first phase (getting the module text from whatever format into the common markup), and the frontend writer will be responsible for a filter from this common markup to what he or she wants to render. This would also cut down on the number of filters exponentially, as there would be no need for a 'From every, to every' set: GBFHTML, GBFRTF, ThMLHTML, ThMLRTF, PlainHTML, PlainRTF, etc., etc. But instead: GBFCOMMON, ThMLCOMMON, PlainCOMMON, COMMONHTML, COMMONRTF. OptionsFilters could also be radically reduced. Instead of trying to provide GBFFootnotes, redletter, strongs, and everything else, for each format to each format, instead, the OptionsFilters would be written against the common markup and would work for everything. This will, of course, impose more overhead, but only for rendering, which, I don't believe, we are having any speed issues at the moment. Thoughts? -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Am Mon, 28 Aug 2000 schrieben Sie: > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > ... > > > IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like > > > BibleTime. I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we should > > > implement support for bible crossreferences. > > > Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two important > > > things: > > > > > > -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be formatted. > > > At the moment every module uses it's one reference formats (GBF, RAW > > > etc.). This is the most important issue. Otherwise we would have to add > > > time wasting regexp mattching things etc. and every frontend has to > > > implement it's own solutions. It's not good not to have a standard for > > > crossreferences. > > > > > > -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as HTML > > > (generated by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they should > > > look like in PLAIN formatted text etc. > > > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): > > > > > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > > > > > > Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, > > > should we use it? > > > > Use ThML - it's all worked out for you. > > > > Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. This > > is not a recording. > > > > :-) > > Sure, ThML is possible. But we have a HTML widget in BibleTime, and somehow > the filters like ThML2HTML have to work. > And only a few modules are using ThML. > Other solutions? > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 01:47:19 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Rob Barrett/Almaden/IBM) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:47:19 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences Message-ID: Joachim Ansorg wrote: > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an example): > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > FWIW, just a quick opinion from a lurker on this list: If you are going to use URL-looking syntax, then it would probably be a good idea to try and stay close to the spec to avoid confusion. In which case, the format should be something like :/// Maybe it doesn't matter, but to use "ref" where the protocol belongs might be troublesome in the long-run. It's fine to create your own protocol like "sword" or something. But the protocol should refer to "how to get the information" not "what the information is". That allows you to later have multiple methods for retrieving the information later on, if you desire. Likewise the entry after the double-slash should be *where* to get the information. If it is the same place as the current document, then it can be omitted. Finally, I believe spaces are generally not permitted in the middle of URLs and may get in the way of using standard URL parsers and generators. BTW, the RFC that covers URLs is at: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/rfc/rfc1738.txt I mean this to be helpful and not just a random critique. I've just been bitten by things like this in the past. Thanks for all of the hard work and the hearts of service behind the work! Rob Barrett From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 02:43:21 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:43:21 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module References: <39AA7E98.F460FC29@Kristof.CZ> Message-ID: <39AB2349.4221D2A7@crosswire.org> Petr, Well, ultimately, all you need to do is produce a .vss file for each testament. Split the old and new testament data files up into 'ot' and 'nt'. The vss file consists of a series of 6 byte records: struct { long offset; short size }; The offset is the start of the entry in the data file, and the size is the length of the entry. There is one record for each canonical verse (see watchout below). To make your life (and hopefully others') easier, I've produced a new utility: sword/utilities/mod2vpl.cpp This tool will export a verse module one verse per line (vpl). I will work on writing a vpl2mod.cpp to import this same format. For now, you can run this utility on an existing module and > output to a file. Then do a wc on this file and your file and be sure that there are the exact same number of lines in both files. A watchout: SWORD facilitates Module, Book, Testament, and Chapter intros. Thus, you will need at least a blank line where these would occure. You will see this in the output for an existing module. Most modules do not use these. MHC is an example that does use these. To be safe, I would output a basic module like KJV. Hope this gets you started. I will try to finish the vpl2mod soon. -Troy. > > Hello Troy and others. > > I just obtained new translation of Bible. Not exist in OLB or another > format so I must make module from the scratch. > > Can you make public the exact step by step how to do it? > > What is the input format for some sword tools? > > I did make it to plain text, one verse per line, no headers or labels, > but rawtxidx > is unable to successfuly generate index files. > > What is the right way to make new module? > > Troy, you did never give qualified answer for this question > if I remember correctly. > > Thanks > > Petr > > -- > Nowhere to run. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 02:54:29 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:54:29 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags References: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> <00082719290601.28524@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB25E5.71CA2586@crosswire.org> Joachim, You might ask Chris, but the last GBF mod I produced was done with sword/src/modules/texts/rawgbf/gbfidx.cpp Hope this helps, -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > I found out now that the index files of the modules are wrong. The book > heading is displayed at te end of the last chapter of the book before the > book with the book heading. > > Troy, how are the GBF .vss files generated? > > --Joachim > > > Hi! > > > > I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a > > problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS > > correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. > > > > I tried to make some improvements, but failed. > > I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about > > the tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB > > module does contain these tags. > > But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it > > stripped away somewhere else? > > > > I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it > > (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:00:55 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:00:55 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> <00082714431601.00317@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB2767.1D74ACC8@crosswire.org> Joachim, I really tried hard to get KDE things to compile, but had no luck. I felt I would have better luck with the latest snapshot KDE2.0Beta2 (I think) that I found on the kde website. Maybe I should have listened to your advice and went with the latest CVS tree. The filenames were something like *1.93.tar.bz2 I got Qt from this directory to compile, and I even got KDELIBS to compile, but KDEBASE failed miserably, and Bibletime still failed on ./configure. Maybe I need to set environment args or something. I did a make install on KDELIBS and it looked like it went into /usr/lib/*, and my KDEDIR is set to /usr. I don't know. I'll keep trying if someone can help get me up and running, but I've been getting frustrated. Any chance someone could just produce a simple test program that shows the error? -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi Troy! > > > Joachim, > > Tried a lookup with > > > > test/parsekey Ps de > > > > It returns: > > > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > > > Seems like it works correctly. > > Yes. Looks like a bad problem of BibleTime 0.2x. It worked in earlier days. > We use casts like this: > > Versekey *key = new VerseKey(); > *key = "Psalms 1:1"; > QString keystr = (const char*)*key; > > Maybe this is the problem? > > If I disable the locale support in BibleTime 0.2x it works! Using a locale it > can't resolve all abbrevs (not even the english standard ones). > > --Joachim > > > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > > > :) > > You need a KDE2 prerelease (at least kdelibs) (I use CVSUP) and a Qt > 2.2.0beta (I use the CVSUP module qt-copy). Have a look at www.kde.org how to > get the KDE sources using CVSUP. It's the best the get all the sources using > CVS or CVSUP, you know why ;-) > But you can also use RPM packages or whatever. > > After installing KDE2 get the sources of BibleTime 1.0CVS and compile them > the traditional way (./configure ; make; make install). > > I hope you like our new features we added afdter 0.2x! A huge difference ;-) > > Good luck! > > --Joachim > > > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:04:35 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:04:35 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Vines References: <00082700140601.31412@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB2843.DAE4D0A5@crosswire.org> Joachim, I've been meaning to mark this module as locked. We've removed the data files so as not to let users download this module, but ultimately we should revisit why we have had no luck with our encipher utilities and lexicon modules. Thanks for moving the data files, we probably should fix this instead of letting our users ask about it all the time. Interestingly enough, from our weekly stats page (http://www.crosswire.org/stats.html), kjv and vines are the most common downloads (maybe because vines doesn't work and people keep redownloading it! :) ). -Troy. > > Hi Troy! > > While browsing Crosswires FTP I notices that there are (were) 0-byte files > called vine.zip and vines.zip in the modules directory. I moved them in my > home directory. > > If you dislike removing the files please move them back from /home/jansorg. > IMHO this is the reason for some user questions about damaged files. > --Joachm From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:06:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:06:17 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF and some tags References: <00082623510800.31412@joachim> Message-ID: <39AB28A9.1250E42A@crosswire.org> footnote tags in GBF modules are turned on and off with GBFFootnotes filter. You are probably seeing this behaviour when this OptionsFilter is turned off. -Troy. Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi! > > I was doing some things witht the GBF->HTML filter of SWORD. I solved a > problem with Footnotes. The KJVSTR module is now displayed in BibleTime CVS > correctly, because correct HTML is generated again. > > I tried to make some improvements, but failed. > I tried to insert the book comments into the HTML text, I'm talking about the > tags and . This is correct referring to the GBF spec. The WEB module > does contain these tags. > But sometimes the filter doesn't get the TT tags! Is this my fault or is it > stripped away somewhere else? > > I committed the code to CVS so if you like have a look at it > (src/modules/filters/gbfhtml.cpp). > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:21:46 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:21:46 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] next release of curses port References: <200008250232.WAA01350@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <39AB2C4A.583251D@crosswire.org> Richard, I tried 0.13. Had a few troubles compiling, but it was my fault. I had systemwide headers for SWORD 1.4.x on my box, and no libs, so when I saw your -L../../../lib, I figured that you had your package somewhere like: sword/apps/console/irenaeus When I place the package here, it found the libs (the 1.5.x libs!) and everything compiled fine, but core dumped. ugh. I finally figured it out and changed your -I in Makefile.in to -I../../../include to match the -L I like the 1,2,3,4 thing. I think this will be really useful. Are you thinking of making each number a new 'desktop'? -Troy. raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > > Hi, I just wanted to say that I am putting out my latest revision > of the curses frontend for sword (irenaeus) on sourceforge.net. > > The main change that I have made is that the front end now acts > like it has several 'virtual terminals' like the virtual consoles of > linux. Switch between them with number keys. May seem like a strange > interface, but once I get more things working, I think it will make some > sense. > > Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 06:35:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:35:03 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Translation Message-ID: <000001c01183$43168070$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Good day Could anyone tell me what is involved with helping to translate the program, etc to Afrikaans? (Afrikaans is spoken is in South Africa, and mainly related to Dutch, but mixed with words from some other languages :) I also have the Afrikaans Bible available. I just don't know about the copyright on distribution. God bless you, nathan http://www.nathan.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 06:35:06 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:35:06 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue - fast searching framework index In-Reply-To: <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <000301c01183$4505a640$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Good day Troy, Martin & others (I only joined the list about 2 weeks ago, so I am still trying to find out who's who, who's doing what, what needs to be done, where is the code, etc etc) I am busy doing something like this for my website at the moment. Only at a website, the speed is of even more importance, as you have many users and many requests at the same time. I have developed some techniques for making it fast enough, and they also seem to work well with large resultsets. It makes provision for most search requirements, including wildcards (mesch*), AND, OR, NOT, range, and I am also looking at ranking (most "relevant" at the top -- if requested) Maybe we should talk on this? (I am still working on it, but I am finished with 80%+ of it, so I know it works) 1. In what format are the indexes that you are currently building? (I assume it is something like a list of pointers to verses) Are you also storing the number of times the word occurs in that verse? Are you working with ALL the words, or are you eliminating "stopwords"? (something I see some Bible programs are doing -- most annoying imho) 2. I have tried to look at where you are doing the new fast search in the Sword CVS, but time has not allowed me to explore this yet. Can you point me to where/what you are doing at the moment? (Or better, provide me with some quick high-level overview :-) 3. This bring up another point. Not all users know regex, etc. But they will want to do complex searches. Are you looking at making the search user interface more simple? E.g. why ask the users to tell you that you must user regex when they type "mesch*"? The * should tell you that automatically. Or am I making it sound too easy? God bless you, nathan http://www.nathan.co.za PS. Where can I get hold of a Sword CD? I am in South Africa, so I guess the normal outlets don't work. And the ISO image is too big to download. I tried it! -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts Sent: 29 August 2000 03:15 To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue Martin, Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching mechanism. Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly appreciated. -Troy. Martin Gruner wrote: > > Another feature request: > > At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key > (bible reference). > Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about > searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would > involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the > location of every single word in the module. > For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in > the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... > If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this > word occures in the bible. > Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded > up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You > could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. > I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) > idea. > > Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 07:15:13 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Tsoloane Moahloli) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:15:13 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue - fast searching frame In-Reply-To: <000301c01183$4505a640$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: Hi Nathan, I am operating from Johannesburg. I have the latest CVS stuff from SWORD and can write that off to CD for you if you want. Cheers, T On 29-Aug-2000 Nathan wrote: > Good day Troy, Martin & others > > (I only joined the list about 2 weeks ago, so I am still trying to > find out who's who, who's doing what, what needs to be done, where > is the code, etc etc) > > I am busy doing something like this for my website at the moment. > Only at a website, the speed is of even more importance, as you > have many users and many requests at the same time. > I have developed some techniques for making it fast enough, and > they also seem to work well with large resultsets. > It makes provision for most search requirements, including > wildcards (mesch*), AND, OR, NOT, range, and I am also looking at > ranking (most "relevant" at the top -- if requested) > Maybe we should talk on this? > (I am still working on it, but I am finished with 80%+ of it, so > I know it works) > > 1. In what format are the indexes that you are currently building? > (I assume it is something like a list of pointers to verses) > Are you also storing the number of times the word occurs in that > verse? > Are you working with ALL the words, or are you eliminating > "stopwords"? (something I see some Bible programs are doing -- > most annoying imho) > > 2. I have tried to look at where you are doing the new fast search > in the Sword CVS, but time has not allowed me to explore this yet. > Can you point me to where/what you are doing at the moment? > (Or better, provide me with some quick high-level overview :-) > > 3. This bring up another point. Not all users know regex, etc. > But they will want to do complex searches. Are you looking at > making the search user interface more simple? > E.g. why ask the users to tell you that you must user regex when > they type "mesch*"? The * should tell you that automatically. > Or am I making it sound too easy? > > God bless you, > nathan > http://www.nathan.co.za > > PS. Where can I get hold of a Sword CD? I am in South Africa, > so I guess the normal outlets don't work. And the ISO image is > too big to download. I tried it! > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org > On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts > Sent: 29 August 2000 03:15 > To: sword-devel@crosswire.org > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue > > > Martin, > Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the > reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one > search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with > verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search > is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, > yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. > > Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to > find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the > verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the > key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through > the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For > extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the > entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching > mechanism. > > Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly > appreciated. > > -Troy. > > > > Martin Gruner wrote: >> >> Another feature request: >> >> At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a > key >> (bible reference). >> Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking > about >> searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would >> involve creating a file for every module that contains information about > the >> location of every single word in the module. >> For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in >> the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... >> If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this >> word occures in the bible. >> Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be > speeded >> up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. > You >> could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. >> I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another > (discussable) >> idea. >> >> Martin -- When was the last time you did something for the first time? Tsoloane Moahloli Zen Computing (Pty)Ltd. phone +27 11 706 7054 email: tsoloane@zen.co.za URL: http://www.zen.co.za From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 15:45:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:45:01 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale In-Reply-To: <39AB2767.1D74ACC8@crosswire.org> References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <00082714431601.00317@joachim> <39AB2767.1D74ACC8@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082915450102.00266@joachim> Troy, Things you have to install and compile: -Qt 2.2.0beta2 -kdelibs latest beta -BibleTime CVS If you successfully installed KDE adn QT you should be ready. Please install QT2 in a different directory than Qt 1.4 (it's not binary compatible). The libs are generated in QT-SOURCES/lib/ Install KDE2 in a different direcory than KDE1, it's not binary compatible. e.g. in the directory kdelibs do this: export QTDIR= export KDEDIR=/usr/ocal/kde2 #where you want to install KDE2 ./conffigure --prefix=$KDEDIR make make install This should install the KDE2 libraries in /usr/local/kde2 Now compile and install BibleTime. Read the Installation page on www.bibletime.de and the README ;-) Do this to configure and compile BibleTime: export QTDIR= export KDEDIR=/usr/ocal/kde2 make -f Makefile.cvs ./configure --with-sworddir= make make install You have to show KDE2 applications where the KDEDIR of KDE2 is, it's different from KDE1. As user you can se these settings to run KDE1 and KDE2 apps simoultanously: export KDEDIR=KDE1 directory export KDEDIRS=KDE2 directory export KDEHOME=where KDE2's settings are stored e.g.. export KDEDIR=/opt/kde export KDEDIRS=/usr/local/lib export KDEHOME=$HOME/.kde2 Now run BibleTime with this command: $KDEDIRS/bin/bibletime, maybe you have t check permissions Normally configure shows you what's wrong with your system! Hope it works, --Joachim > Joachim, > I really tried hard to get KDE things to compile, but had no luck. I > felt I would have better luck with the latest snapshot KDE2.0Beta2 (I > think) that I found on the kde website. Maybe I should have listened to > your advice and went with the latest CVS tree. The filenames were > something like *1.93.tar.bz2 I got Qt from this directory to compile, > and I even got KDELIBS to compile, but KDEBASE failed miserably, and > Bibletime still failed on ./configure. Maybe I need to set environment > args or something. I did a make install on KDELIBS and it looked like > it went into /usr/lib/*, and my KDEDIR is set to /usr. I don't know. > I'll keep trying if someone can help get me up and running, but I've > been getting frustrated. Any chance someone could just produce a simple > test program that shows the error? > > -Troy. > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi Troy! > > > > > Joachim, > > > Tried a lookup with > > > > > > test/parsekey Ps de > > > > > > It returns: > > > > > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > > > > > Seems like it works correctly. > > > > Yes. Looks like a bad problem of BibleTime 0.2x. It worked in earlier > > days. We use casts like this: > > > > Versekey *key = new VerseKey(); > > *key = "Psalms 1:1"; > > QString keystr = (const char*)*key; > > > > Maybe this is the problem? > > > > If I disable the locale support in BibleTime 0.2x it works! Using a > > locale it can't resolve all abbrevs (not even the english standard ones). > > > > --Joachim > > > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > > > > > :) > > > > You need a KDE2 prerelease (at least kdelibs) (I use CVSUP) and a Qt > > 2.2.0beta (I use the CVSUP module qt-copy). Have a look at www.kde.org > > how to get the KDE sources using CVSUP. It's the best the get all the > > sources using CVS or CVSUP, you know why ;-) > > But you can also use RPM packages or whatever. > > > > After installing KDE2 get the sources of BibleTime 1.0CVS and compile > > them the traditional way (./configure ; make; make install). > > > > I hope you like our new features we added afdter 0.2x! A huge difference > > ;-) > > > > Good luck! > > > > --Joachim > > > > > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 14:46:17 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:46:17 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences In-Reply-To: <39AB1344.8EB4A33A@crosswire.org> References: <00082719362702.28524@joachim> <00082815493500.00271@joachim> <39AB1344.8EB4A33A@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00082914461701.00266@joachim> Hi Troy! Very good ideas you mentioned here! A common formating is very good, this would give us a common fornat we can work with (all references have the same format, we can decide how words of Jesus are displayed, how footnotes are formatted, how strongs are formatted etc.). I really would prefer this! This gives us much more power at frontend side! We have to find a easy to use, easy to convert format for SwordCommon! Does somebody have some ideas for this? If somebody could implement it I'd be very happy ;-) --Joachim > You might not like this response at first, but spend a minute or two and > think about it: > > I've left this up to the frontend to decide how Bible references are > formatted. > > Think about this. We have many different markup implementations for > texts. These are then run through a filter that knows about the markup > language, and also knows about the frontend's desired markup. Thus we > have GBFHTML, etc., filters. What's the difference between assuming the > filter knows how the frontend wishes to display the module, and assuming > the filter know how the frontend wishes the get reference marks? > > Ultimately, there is a design proposal in the API ref on the website > that uses an intermediate markup language to which all texts would be > converted, then from this common markup, we could render to the > frontend. I believe this 2 phase conversion allows much more modular > and reusable filters and will solve this very issue. The API will be > responsible for the first phase (getting the module text from whatever > format into the common markup), and the frontend writer will be > responsible for a filter from this common markup to what he or she wants > to render. This would also cut down on the number of filters > exponentially, as there would be no need for a 'From every, to every' > set: GBFHTML, GBFRTF, ThMLHTML, ThMLRTF, PlainHTML, PlainRTF, etc., > etc. But instead: GBFCOMMON, ThMLCOMMON, PlainCOMMON, COMMONHTML, > COMMONRTF. > > OptionsFilters could also be radically reduced. Instead of trying to > provide GBFFootnotes, redletter, strongs, and everything else, for each > format to each format, instead, the OptionsFilters would be written > against the common markup and would work for everything. > > This will, of course, impose more overhead, but only for rendering, > which, I don't believe, we are having any speed issues at the moment. > > > Thoughts? > > -Troy. > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Am Mon, 28 Aug 2000 schrieben Sie: > > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > > ... > > > > IMHO this is a very important issue for SWORD and frontends like > > > > BibleTime. I have much requests from users of BibleTime that we > > > > should implement support for bible crossreferences. > > > > Basically we have it, but SWORD and BibleTime are missing two > > > > important things: > > > > > > > > -A standard in modules how crossreferences should be > > > > formatted. At the moment every module uses it's one reference formats > > > > (GBF, RAW etc.). This is the most important issue. Otherwise we would > > > > have to add time wasting regexp mattching things etc. and every > > > > frontend has to implement it's own solutions. It's not good not to > > > > have a standard for crossreferences. > > > > > > > > -A standard how the crossreferences should be formatted as > > > > HTML (generated by the GBFHTML and PLAINGHTML filters) and how they > > > > should look like in PLAIN formatted text etc. > > > > In BibleTime we use as a quick hack the following syntax (as an > > > > example): > > > > > > > > Reference to Genesis 1:1 > > > > > > > > Is there somewhere a crossreference standard on the internet? If yes, > > > > should we use it? > > > > > > Use ThML - it's all worked out for you. > > > > > > Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. Use ThML. This > > > is not a recording. > > > > > > :-) > > > > Sure, ThML is possible. But we have a HTML widget in BibleTime, and > > somehow the filters like ThML2HTML have to work. > > And only a few modules are using ThML. > > Other solutions? > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 16:45:44 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] next release of curses port In-Reply-To: <39AB2C4A.583251D@crosswire.org> from "Troy A. Griffitts" at Aug 28, 2000 08:21:46 PM Message-ID: <200008291645.MAA00575@jibsail.cacc.ncsu.edu> Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > > Richard, > I tried 0.13. Had a few troubles compiling, but it was my fault. I > had systemwide headers for SWORD 1.4.x on my box, and no libs, so when I > saw your -L../../../lib, I figured that you had your package somewhere > like: sword/apps/console/irenaeus > When I place the package here, it found the libs (the 1.5.x libs!) and > everything compiled fine, but core dumped. ugh. I finally figured it > out and changed your -I in Makefile.in to -I../../../include to match > the -L I'll make that change. > > I like the 1,2,3,4 thing. I think this will be really useful. Are you > thinking of making each number a new 'desktop'? > > -Troy. A new desktop for each number is a possibility. My actual intent is the following: I want to be able to change the window size for each of the screens. I want to be able to simultaneously display several of the screens. I want to add a 'linking' ability between screens. By this I mean that I can say that both screen 2 and 5 should always point to the same verse. Then when I move around in 2, 5 moves with it. Similarly the ability to say that screen 2 and 5 should use the same module. Also the ability to say that screen 5 should also get displayed whenever I switch to screen 2. I want the ability to call macro files. By this I mean that the user should be able to request that a file be executed within irenaeus. Once I have all of these working, the user will then be able to start up ir. as he can in 0.13, and then tell the program to run a configuration file that sets up either: interlinear (several translations simultaneously displayed on screen, and move in sync) module sync (look at several different verses at the same time, and then switch to a different translation, or even commentary, and see the same set of verses.) emulation (can make the interface resemble the setup of some other front end.) some configuration that he designed himself for whatever application he has in mind. several of the above, and switch between them. Since posting 0.13, I have made some progress towards this. I have just berely (virtually no testing, but it worked on one file) gotten macro files working, I can with only minor glitches change window size (at compile time) and display multiple screens (I removed all calls to erase the entire screen). Some of the structures to do the proposed linking are in place, but not yet working. Once I get home tonight, I will post my updated code on my site, and email you. I want to get the above parts mostly working before posting a 0.14. > > > > raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > > > > Hi, I just wanted to say that I am putting out my latest revision > > of the curses frontend for sword (irenaeus) on sourceforge.net. > > > > The main change that I have made is that the front end now acts > > like it has several 'virtual terminals' like the virtual consoles of > > linux. Switch between them with number keys. May seem like a strange > > interface, but once I get more things working, I think it will make some > > sense. > > > > Richard Holcombe > Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 03:22:40 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joe Walker) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 04:22:40 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <00082821212200.00206@marten> <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39AB2C80.44170608@eireneh.com> Hi, If I understand the problem correctly the problem is that a search for "the" or "Lord" comes up with lots of hits and storing all those hits in a fast index file uses a lot of space. My Java program uses 3 ways to store lists of verses to combat this. They are all available either in memory or on disk. I have an interface "Passage" that stores a list of verses and 3 implementations: DistinctPassage - a simple list of verses. RangedPassage - stores a list of verse pairs (start and end) BitwisePassage - stores a 31k long bitmap. One bit per verse The latter can promise that any result set can be stored in only a few K, and a fairly simple bit of maths can be used to work out which is the best algorithm to use. The latter also makes for very very very fast result set combining methods. To search for "moses" AND "manna" I simple AND the bitmaps together. Shout if you want to know more. All code is GPL. Joe. "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > Martin, > Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the > reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one > search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with > verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search > is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, > yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. > > Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to > find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the > verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the > key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through > the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For > extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the > entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching > mechanism. > > Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly > appreciated. > > -Troy. > > Martin Gruner wrote: > > > > Another feature request: > > > > At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key > > (bible reference). > > Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about > > searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would > > involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the > > location of every single word in the module. > > For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in > > the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... > > If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this > > word occures in the bible. > > Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded > > up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You > > could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. > > I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) > > idea. > > > > Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 17:08:08 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:08:08 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue In-Reply-To: <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> References: <00082821212200.00206@marten> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000829093423.00a524d0@mail.dancris.com> Two ideas here: 1) Include word counts in your indexes. If you are doing an AND condition check the word counts of each word and then get a verse list for the least used word, then search those verses for the other words. 2) When checking that verses fall in the correct range for a word with lots of hits, use something like a binary search to establish the boundaries in the index. Then just use the index entries between the boundary records. Jerry At 06:15 PM 8/28/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to >find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the >verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the >key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through >the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For >extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the >entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching >mechanism. > >Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly >appreciated. > > -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 17:28:35 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:28:35 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: <39AB2349.4221D2A7@crosswire.org> References: <39AA7E98.F460FC29@Kristof.CZ> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000829101435.00a59cd0@mail.dancris.com> Troy, I wrote a small program to browse the NT VSS files and the BKS and CPS files. It shows how records in BKS point to records in CPS that point to records in VSS that point to text in NT, and displays ten verses from NT with the selected verse in color. I was wanting to look at the data in these indexes to see what you were using and if there were any surprises. (Why does CPS start with a value of 4 when VSS has 6 byte records?) Unfortunately, I wrote it in a learning edition of VB and I can not compile it. But if anyone wants the files to compile, I can post them. Jerry At 07:43 PM 8/28/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >Petr, > >To make your life (and hopefully others') easier, I've produced a new >utility: sword/utilities/mod2vpl.cpp >This tool will export a verse module one verse per line (vpl). I will >work on writing a vpl2mod.cpp to import this same format. For now, you >can run this utility on an existing module and > output to a file. Then >do a wc on this file and your file and be sure that there are the exact >same number of lines in both files. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 18:48:03 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Brandon Staggs) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:48:03 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <00082821212200.00206@marten> <39AB0EA4.2C96C37E@crosswire.org> <39AB2C80.44170608@eireneh.com> Message-ID: <003501c011e9$bde92800$6501a8c0@bmoney> What I did with SwordSearcher is similar to your bitmap. A search creates an array of 31102 bytes. Each key is looked up in the pre-index, and in each verse it appears in gets its value incremented in the array. For a simple AND search, you just need to make sure that each byte has the correct value. An OR or NOT search is just as easy. If a phrase search or case sensitive search is done, each verse needs to be individually verified, but you've already removed every verse that CANT be correct, so it still takes less time. I have never seen any realistic searches done that are actually slower with this method. In SwordSearcher at least, on all of my machines, searches appear almost instantaneously. Joe's individual bitmaps for each key is a better idea if you are going to implement wildcard search abilities. -Brandon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Walker" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue > > Hi, > > If I understand the problem correctly the problem is that a search for > "the" or "Lord" comes up with lots of hits and storing all those hits > in a fast index file uses a lot of space. > > My Java program uses 3 ways to store lists of verses to combat this. > They are all available either in memory or on disk. > > I have an interface "Passage" that stores a list of verses and 3 > implementations: > > DistinctPassage - a simple list of verses. > RangedPassage - stores a list of verse pairs (start and end) > BitwisePassage - stores a 31k long bitmap. One bit per verse > > The latter can promise that any result set can be stored in only a > few K, and a fairly simple bit of maths can be used to work out which > is the best algorithm to use. > The latter also makes for very very very fast result set combining > methods. To search for "moses" AND "manna" I simple AND the bitmaps > together. > > Shout if you want to know more. All code is GPL. > > Joe. > > > > "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > > > Martin, > > Thanks for the post. This is exactly what we are doing with the > > reference implementation of a fast searching framework. We do one > > search for each word in the text and create an index of every word with > > verse references for each. We save this index and every time a search > > is performed, we ask the index for the references for the word. And, > > yes, as you said, we do multiword searches this way also. > > > > Problems come with large result sets. You see, not only do we have to > > find verse references for the word[s], we also have to verify that the > > verse references are within the search range specified (valid for the > > key used to specify the search bounds). This entails iterating through > > the search results and asking the key if each one is valid. For > > extremely large result sets, this takes just as long as searching the > > entire text, actually sometimes longer than the default searching > > mechanism. > > > > Any suggestions on how to speed up this process would be greatly > > appreciated. > > > > -Troy. > > > > Martin Gruner wrote: > > > > > > Another feature request: > > > > > > At the moment you can use sword to retrieve text (a list of words) by a key > > > (bible reference). > > > Is it possible to retrieve keys (a list of) by a word? I am not talking about > > > searching. I am talking about something like a concordance. This would > > > involve creating a file for every module that contains information about the > > > location of every single word in the module. > > > For example, if I look up "mesch", sword tells me that this word is not in > > > the module, but the words "mescha", "meschar", "meschelemja" .... > > > If I look up "meschelemja", sword will give me 3 references to where this > > > word occures in the bible. > > > Once this would be implemented, searches for a single word would be speeded > > > up amazingly, because sword would just look them up in the concordance. You > > > could even perform multi word searches using this mechanism. > > > I do not know how realistic this is, but it is at least another (discussable) > > > idea. > > > > > > Martin From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 17:49:19 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jeremy Pointer) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:49:19 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Translation References: <000001c01183$43168070$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: <39ABF79E.E9701788@pointers.co.za> Hello fellow Seffrican As far as I know both the NV and OV are Copyrighted, by Bybelgenootskap, look in the front of a printed bible there are address details there, I have previously written to them, and I think also emailed but have never recieved a reply. Good luck -- Jeremy Pointer jerm@pointers.co.za http://www.pointers.co.za/jeremy/ From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 19:52:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:52:00 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue In-Reply-To: <39AB2C80.44170608@eireneh.com> Message-ID: <000001c011f2$98552a90$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Good day, In option 3, would the bitmap not be about 8.3K? (31102 verses / 8) Else it is a bytemap, not a bitmap :) You are right that it is very fast. I use the same method. For wildcards it is also really fast (just OR a few bitmaps). The way to work around the huge size of the "bitmap index" is to store it in another format (like a list or Ranged list) and convert when needed. I like your idea about the RangedPassage as well. It really makes the list of verses for certain "common" words much smaller. Where is your program located Joe? God bless, nathan -----Original Message----- From: owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org [mailto:owner-sword-devel@crosswire.org]On Behalf Of Joe Walker Sent: 29 August 2000 05:23 To: sword-devel@crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue Hi, If I understand the problem correctly the problem is that a search for "the" or "Lord" comes up with lots of hits and storing all those hits in a fast index file uses a lot of space. My Java program uses 3 ways to store lists of verses to combat this. They are all available either in memory or on disk. I have an interface "Passage" that stores a list of verses and 3 implementations: DistinctPassage - a simple list of verses. RangedPassage - stores a list of verse pairs (start and end) BitwisePassage - stores a 31k long bitmap. One bit per verse The latter can promise that any result set can be stored in only a few K, and a fairly simple bit of maths can be used to work out which is the best algorithm to use. The latter also makes for very very very fast result set combining methods. To search for "moses" AND "manna" I simple AND the bitmaps together. Shout if you want to know more. All code is GPL. Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 20:06:06 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael Paul Johnson) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:06:06 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF reference code Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000829135556.00b53840@ebible.org> The Delphi code I use to convert GBF to assorted other formats (HTML, plain ASCII, RTF, LaTeX, etc.) is at ftp://ebible.org/pub/new/gbfsrc.zip, if you are interested. You may use it under the terms of the Gnu Public License, if you like. If you would like to add to it, i. e. to convert to or from ThML, feel free. :-) Yes, Troy, using one format as a "hub" for format conversions is a good idea. That was my original intention for GBF. Eventually, I believe we will see a better "hub" format that is based on XML and Unicode. (I just talked with Mike Perez of the ABS about that, and it sounds like we would do well to keep track of what they are doing.) In the mean time, we have GBF, and it will, no doubt, convert to and from XML, too. :-) _______ Michael Paul Johnson mpj@eBible.org http://ebible.org/mpj From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 20:46:58 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:46:58 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000829101435.00a59cd0@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: Sounds pretty cool. If you want to post the code, I can try compiling it and posting it. The bks and cps files don't actually get used at the moment by sword, but it might be nice if we could implement support for them if they are present. With basic KJV verse mapped translations, the speed increase gained by keeping those arrays static in memory is probably worth the space in memory. --Chris On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Jerry Hastings wrote: > Troy, I wrote a small program to browse the NT VSS files and the BKS and > CPS files. It shows how records in BKS point to records in CPS that point > to records in VSS that point to text in NT, and displays ten verses from NT > with the selected verse in color. I was wanting to look at the data in > these indexes to see what you were using and if there were any > surprises. (Why does CPS start with a value of 4 when VSS has 6 byte > records?) Unfortunately, I wrote it in a learning edition of VB and I can > not compile it. But if anyone wants the files to compile, I can post them. > > Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 21:49:56 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joe Walker) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:49:56 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <000001c011f2$98552a90$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: <39AC3004.9939E555@eireneh.com> Nathan wrote: > In option 3, would the bitmap not be about 8.3K? (31102 verses / 8) > Else it is a bytemap, not a bitmap :) To put the size in perspective. If you take every word in the KJV and search for it and store the results in whatever is the smallest of the 3 approaches mentioned, and store the lot in a big RandomAccessFile then the total size is 4.5Mb This is in my opinion a little on the large size if you want to do a d/l of a new version. However since the data is duplicated there is nothing to stop a clever installation script creating it, or even a very clever caching search that creates it on the fly. > You are right that it is very fast. I use the same method. > For wildcards it is also really fast (just OR a few bitmaps). > The way to work around the huge size of the "bitmap index" is to > store it in another format (like a list or Ranged list) and > convert when needed. I have a working scheme where by you can do a best match. So you type in your phrase and it first looks up every word you typed in in a thesaurus and then searches for every match, returning you the verse with hopefully the most similar meaning. I find it very useful, but for it to work you do need a blinding fast search mechanism. > I like your idea about the RangedPassage as well. It really makes > the list of verses for certain "common" words much smaller. > > Where is your program located Joe? There was a servlet version on the web, but I think it is broken right now. I've been working on a project for my brother (blood and in Christ) that needed to be done before his wedding, so I've not done much on it in the past few months. If you want to look at code, then I can send you what ever you want very quickly. If you want a working product then I'll need a few more weeks. I've tarred up the code in question. And I'll place it at: http://www.eireneh.com/passage.tar.gz It is all Java, and will only be of use for case A above. Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 22:21:37 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:21:37 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue References: <000001c011f2$98552a90$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> <39AC3004.9939E555@eireneh.com> Message-ID: <39AC3771.C2F49E22@crosswire.org> Joe and others that asked, The code for our first attempt at word indices and fast searches is in: sword/src/modules/texts/rawtext/rawtext.cpp RawText::createSearchFramework // creates the framework (done once) RawText::Search // uses the framework Anyone want to reimplement these? I know! Let's have a contest! :) Smallest indices with the fastest _accurate_ response time wins. :), -Troy. Joe Walker wrote: > > Nathan wrote: > > In option 3, would the bitmap not be about 8.3K? (31102 verses / 8) > > Else it is a bytemap, not a bitmap :) > > To put the size in perspective. If you take every word in the KJV and > search for it and store the results in whatever is the smallest of > the 3 approaches mentioned, and store the lot in a big RandomAccessFile > then the total size is 4.5Mb > > This is in my opinion a little on the large size if you want to do > a d/l of a new version. However since the data is duplicated there is > nothing to stop a clever installation script creating it, or even > a very clever caching search that creates it on the fly. > > > You are right that it is very fast. I use the same method. > > For wildcards it is also really fast (just OR a few bitmaps). > > The way to work around the huge size of the "bitmap index" is to > > store it in another format (like a list or Ranged list) and > > convert when needed. > > I have a working scheme where by you can do a best match. So you type > in your phrase and it first looks up every word you typed in in a > thesaurus and then searches for every match, returning you the verse with > hopefully the most similar meaning. > I find it very useful, but for it to work you do need a blinding fast > search mechanism. > > > I like your idea about the RangedPassage as well. It really makes > > the list of verses for certain "common" words much smaller. > > > > Where is your program located Joe? > > There was a servlet version on the web, but I think it is broken right > now. I've been working on a project for my brother (blood and in Christ) > that needed to be done before his wedding, so I've not done much on it > in the past few months. > > If you want to look at code, then I can send you what ever you want > very quickly. If you want a working product then I'll need a few more > weeks. > > I've tarred up the code in question. And I'll place it at: > http://www.eireneh.com/passage.tar.gz > It is all Java, and will only be of use for case A above. > > Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 23:40:49 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:40:49 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast Search Framework [was: Another Important Issue] References: <000001c011f2$98552a90$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> <39AC3004.9939E555@eireneh.com> <39AC3771.C2F49E22@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39AC4A01.2A010992@crosswire.org> OK, I've heavily documented the code for the search framework. Please get the latest rawtext.cpp from cvs and you should have some help to understand it now. -Troy. "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > > Joe and others that asked, > > The code for our first attempt at word indices and fast searches is in: > sword/src/modules/texts/rawtext/rawtext.cpp > > RawText::createSearchFramework // creates the framework (done once) > RawText::Search // uses the framework > > Anyone want to reimplement these? > > I know! Let's have a contest! :) Smallest indices with the fastest > _accurate_ response time wins. > > :), > -Troy. > > Joe Walker wrote: > > > > Nathan wrote: > > > In option 3, would the bitmap not be about 8.3K? (31102 verses / 8) > > > Else it is a bytemap, not a bitmap :) > > > > To put the size in perspective. If you take every word in the KJV and > > search for it and store the results in whatever is the smallest of > > the 3 approaches mentioned, and store the lot in a big RandomAccessFile > > then the total size is 4.5Mb > > > > This is in my opinion a little on the large size if you want to do > > a d/l of a new version. However since the data is duplicated there is > > nothing to stop a clever installation script creating it, or even > > a very clever caching search that creates it on the fly. > > > > > You are right that it is very fast. I use the same method. > > > For wildcards it is also really fast (just OR a few bitmaps). > > > The way to work around the huge size of the "bitmap index" is to > > > store it in another format (like a list or Ranged list) and > > > convert when needed. > > > > I have a working scheme where by you can do a best match. So you type > > in your phrase and it first looks up every word you typed in in a > > thesaurus and then searches for every match, returning you the verse with > > hopefully the most similar meaning. > > I find it very useful, but for it to work you do need a blinding fast > > search mechanism. > > > > > I like your idea about the RangedPassage as well. It really makes > > > the list of verses for certain "common" words much smaller. > > > > > > Where is your program located Joe? > > > > There was a servlet version on the web, but I think it is broken right > > now. I've been working on a project for my brother (blood and in Christ) > > that needed to be done before his wedding, so I've not done much on it > > in the past few months. > > > > If you want to look at code, then I can send you what ever you want > > very quickly. If you want a working product then I'll need a few more > > weeks. > > > > I've tarred up the code in question. And I'll place it at: > > http://www.eireneh.com/passage.tar.gz > > It is all Java, and will only be of use for case A above. > > > > Joe. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Tue Aug 29 23:34:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (sword-devel@crosswire.org) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:34:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] next release of curses port In-Reply-To: <200008291645.MAA00575@jibsail.cacc.ncsu.edu> from "raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu" at Aug 29, 2000 12:45:44 PM Message-ID: <200008292334.TAA01449@boogieboard.cacc.ncsu.edu> Made some changes. Not ready for a new version yet, but if you're really curious I have it at http://www4.ncsu.edu:8030/unity/users/r/raholcom/www/irenaeus/ raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > > Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > > > > Richard, > > I tried 0.13. Had a few troubles compiling, but it was my fault. I > > had systemwide headers for SWORD 1.4.x on my box, and no libs, so when I > > saw your -L../../../lib, I figured that you had your package somewhere > > like: sword/apps/console/irenaeus > > When I place the package here, it found the libs (the 1.5.x libs!) and > > everything compiled fine, but core dumped. ugh. I finally figured it > > out and changed your -I in Makefile.in to -I../../../include to match > > the -L > I'll make that change. > > > > > I like the 1,2,3,4 thing. I think this will be really useful. Are you > > thinking of making each number a new 'desktop'? > > > > -Troy. > A new desktop for each number is a possibility. > My actual intent is the following: > I want to be able to change the window size for each of the screens. > I want to be able to simultaneously display several of the screens. > I want to add a 'linking' ability between screens. By this I mean that > I can say that both screen 2 and 5 should always point to the same > verse. Then when I move around in 2, 5 moves with it. Similarly > the ability to say that screen 2 and 5 should use the same module. > Also the ability to say that screen 5 should also get displayed whenever > I switch to screen 2. > I want the ability to call macro files. By this I mean that the user > should be able to request that a file be executed within irenaeus. > > Once I have all of these working, the user will then be able to > start up ir. as he can in 0.13, and then tell the program to run > a configuration file that sets up either: > > interlinear (several translations simultaneously displayed on screen, and > move in sync) > > module sync (look at several different verses at the same time, and then > switch to a different translation, or even commentary, and see the same > set of verses.) > > emulation (can make the interface resemble the setup of some other > front end.) > > some configuration that he designed himself for whatever application > he has in mind. > > several of the above, and switch between them. > > > Since posting 0.13, I have made some progress towards this. I have just > berely (virtually no testing, but it worked on one file) gotten macro > files working, I can with only minor glitches change window size > (at compile time) and display multiple screens (I removed > all calls to erase the entire screen). Some of the structures to do the > proposed linking are in place, but not yet working. > > Once I get home tonight, I will post my updated code on my site, and email > you. I want to get the above parts mostly working before posting a 0.14. > > > > > > > > raholcom@eos.ncsu.edu wrote: > > > > > > Hi, I just wanted to say that I am putting out my latest revision > > > of the curses frontend for sword (irenaeus) on sourceforge.net. > > > > > > The main change that I have made is that the front end now acts > > > like it has several 'virtual terminals' like the virtual consoles of > > > linux. Switch between them with number keys. May seem like a strange > > > interface, but once I get more things working, I think it will make some > > > sense. > > > > > > Richard Holcombe > > > > Richard Holcombe > Richard Holcombe From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 05:01:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:01:01 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Another Important Issue In-Reply-To: <39AC3004.9939E555@eireneh.com> Message-ID: <000401c0123f$4ac5f1e0$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Good day, Joe wrote: >To put the size in perspective. If you take every word in the KJV and >search for it and store the results in whatever is the smallest of >the 3 approaches mentioned, and store the lot in a big RandomAccessFile >then the total size is 4.5Mb The index size I got with just options 1 and 3 was 1.32 Mb. Adding option 2 will probably make it even smaller. The option 3 "bitmap" is 3888 bytes (31102 / 8) (sorry the 8.3K was wrong!) in size. I do not store the number of times it occurs in the verse cause it is easier getting that at run-time. >I've tarred up the code in question. And I'll place it at: > http://www.eireneh.com/passage.tar.gz >It is all Java, and will only be of use for case A above. Thank you, I will have a look at it! God bless you, nathan From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 07:36:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:36:48 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas In-Reply-To: <39AC3771.C2F49E22@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <000001c01255$0e302410$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Hello everyone! There seems to be quite an interest in the fast index searching, so I thought I would write up some of my ideas. Maybe you can use this as discussion points, disagree, improve, change it or ignore it. :-) Step 1. Building the wordlist The first thing to do is get a list of all the words in the file. This means reading through each verse/paragraph and identifying each word. This is fairly easy, as one can just convert all punctuation characters to spaces, and then get a list of the remaining words. Keep in mind other languages have many other accented characters, that you do not see those as punctuation! Also keep the ' in mind e.g. "isn't" is a valid word (else you chop it into "isn" and "t"). Also convert the words to lower case. You can always check for case sensitive or insensitive at run-time (once you have found the verse/paragraph). You might disagree here, but I found the wordlist becomes too big, and searching the wordlist becomes slower. And the index becomes bigger. You might want to do some "stemming" (reducing the number of words) by removing all words ending with 's. You might want to do more stemming e.g. removing the "-ly" at the end of words, or eliminating plurals (most ending with "s") A lot depends on your final view. Most times you will want to give the person searching both the singular and plural of a word, without them having to worry about specifying both. There is plenty of work one can do here. Then accumulate these words into a dictionary (list of the words) and a concordance (in which verse/paragraph) they occur. My wordlist for the KJV consists of 12560 unique words. Step 2. The concordance The format of the concordance can be in any of the 3 methods that Joe described (use the best method for that specific word). 1. A list of pointers to the verse/paragraph: This works especially well with once-only words (occur only once in the document). Then it only uses 2 bytes. 2. A range list: Specifies a range at a time (4 bytes specify begin and end verse) e.g. Genesis 1:1-31 would 4 bytes instead of 62. (Must admit this is a new one that I hadn't thought of.) 3. A "bitmap": This is a list of bits specifying whether the word occurs in a verse or not. As there are 31102 verses in the King James Bible, it would imply Genesis 1:1 is bit 0, 1:2 is but 2, etc. If the bit is set, then the word occurs in that verse. This is especially good for very common words e.g. "the". As there are 8 bits per byte, we can store 8 verses per byte, so we need 3888 bytes for this bitmap. I used formats 1 and 3, and the size of the KJV index was 0.89 Mb. [In short: Use a bitmap if the bitmap becomes shorter than the list of pointers. There are 52 words where this happens. So we have 52x3888 bytes (for the bitmaps) + 12508 words remaining x 27.16 (avg. occurrence of these words) x 2 bytes per pointer + 12560 (to indicate which format we are using) = 0.89 Mb] This could improve by using Joe's method 2 as well. I have looked at storing everything as bitmaps. Because these are very sparse bitmaps, they compress very well. The resultant compressed size was 1.32 Mb. Not worth the effort if I already got 0.89 Mb. PS. Make sure the wordlist is sorted. It speeds things up (about 8 times in most cases). Step 3. The search Single words: They are easy! Look up the word in the list, get the pointer list or bitmap, and give it back to the person. Multiple words: Get the word from the wordlist. If the format is not bitmap, convert it to bitmap. Get next word. Get the bitmap. Then AND the 2 bitmaps. Resultant is the list of all verses where both occur. It is very fast, and works as well with frequently occurring words as with others. Keep going through the list of search words. Wildcards e.g. "bapt*" or "s?n": This is almost the same as the multiple words, except you OR the bitmaps. NOT: Easy! Just NOT the bitmap. Expressions: Here some parsing is needed. This is when the person asks e.g. "((Jesus and Son) not Father) or Christ*" The expression will have to be parsed, e.g. into BNF, and then ANDed, ORed, NOTed in the correct order. The NOT part is the difficult one here :) Range: Do the same as for the above. Then just trim the bitmap to the specified range (might have a bitmap for the range called "Genesis" which you then AND over this one.) It will be easy and quick to generate one on the fly. Proximity: This is when you want to have some words, but they can span +/- 5 verses. You know the words are close together, but not in the same verse/paragraph. This is obviously more difficult, and that is why few programs have it. I have not looked at this as yet either. Just mentioning it here for completeness. Other languages: Something To think about as well is to make it easier for people searching other languages. This would imply that people could type in "seen" and get "seën". (Afrikaans word for "bless"). Sort of accent-insensitive. Helps a lot with languages that have many accents. Natural language queries: e.g. "Where in the Bible can I read the 10 Commandments?" Skip this for now... Spelling mistakes: If a word is not found, I was thinking on using a "soundex" type routine to get the nearest words to it. (soundex will associate "kayotik" with "chaotic") I don't know if soundex is the correct one. There are better routines. (Might even use something like PPM they use with natural language queries.) Then suggest an alternative to the person. You need to look at this, especially with the way people spell "color" vs. "colour", etc. The KJV uses "colour". (I could throw in some flame-bait here about "proper" English ) Step 4. Ranking If you want to rank the search results, the way you build the concordance will be slightly different. I this case option 1 (list of pointers) will be pointer + number of occurrences (1 byte is enough). Format 1 of the concordance will be 50% bigger (pointer = 2 bytes + 1 byte for occurrence) Format 2 (haven't thought about this one yet) Format 3 grows 8 times! (the bitmap now becomes a bytemap). Using format 1 and 3, the index size grows to (3 x 31102) + (43.85 x 3 x 12577) + 12560 = 1.76 Mb The ranking is then done on a "majority rules" method. The verse with the most occurrences get the top spot. A better method would be to look at 1. The book/chapter with the most hits 2. Then the verse with the most hits. Another approach to the searching/ranking would be like the search engines. The verse/paragraph where the most words occur get the top position. They also look at which is the longest document with the most search words occurring. Step 5. Optionally compressing the text Because all searching is basically done in the index, the text does not have to be in uncompressed format any more, and can be compressed. When a verse needs to be displayed on the screen, it is uncompressed on the fly and then displayed. This way you can get the entire KJV plus index in just over 2 Mb. Speed: You can really speed things along by having the wordlist in memory. It is very small (89.3K). The concordance part you can leave on disk. I spent quite some time researching and thinking about this, so hopefully it saves someone somewhere some time! God bless you, nathan http://www.nathan.co.za I thought these verses were sort of applicable... :) "Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; ..." - Deuteronomy 13:14 "... the honour of kings is to search out a matter." - Proverbs 25:2 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13 From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 11:47:12 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:47:12 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module References: <39AA7E98.F460FC29@Kristof.CZ> Message-ID: <39ACF440.40692541@crosswire.org> Petr, Both tools now exist and work against the KJV module. eg. mod2vpl KJV > yoyo mkdir kjv vpl2mod yoyo ./kjv/ This will create a verse per line (vpl) file called yoyo. Then will use this file to product a new module in the ./kjv/ directory. Hope this helps, -Troy. Kri¹tof Petr wrote: > > Hello Troy and others. > > I just obtained new translation of Bible. Not exist in OLB or another > format so I must make module from the scratch. > > Can you make public the exact step by step how to do it? > > What is the input format for some sword tools? > > I did make it to plain text, one verse per line, no headers or labels, > but rawtxidx > is unable to successfuly generate index files. > > What is the right way to make new module? > > Troy, you did never give qualified answer for this question > if I remember correctly. > > Thanks > > Petr > > -- > Nowhere to run. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 11:54:37 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:54:37 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText Message-ID: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> Our most common Bible module driver-- RawText-- now is writable. This will allow editing of most of our existing modules. The implementation appends the new entry to the end of the datafile. Lot's of editing will produce a bigger and bigger data file. I'm hoping to add a 'getModifications()' option to this driver that will find appended entries. This will allow us to put in a 'Submit Edits' option in the frontends and allow users to submit changes for modules. I think this will be useful. This is one idea that came from dinner with Jerry and Geoff Hastings last week. It was nice to finally meet someone in person from the project. We had a good brainstorming lunch! -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 14:19:33 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Michael A Hamblin) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:19:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas In-Reply-To: <000001c01255$0e302410$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Nathan wrote: > There seems to be quite an interest in the fast > index searching, so I thought I would write up > some of my ideas. Maybe you can use this as > discussion points, disagree, improve, change it > or ignore it. :-) It sounds like you've really put some thought into this :) -- Michael Hamblin http://www.utdallas.edu/~michaelh/ michaelh@utdallas.edu http://www.ductape.net/ UTD Linux User Group Technical and Communications Services "Why would I want any more?" -Stavesacre From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 17:21:41 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:21:41 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale In-Reply-To: <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00083017214100.10732@joachim> Hi Troy! With newest CVS some things are broken now. IO committed the testprogram keycast for a new test (retrieving th key by casting to const char*). "parsekey Ps de" does output nothing "keycast Genesis 1:4 de" does output 1. Mose 1:1, but it should be 1. Mose 1:4 With not locale support it works. --Joachim > Joachim, > Tried a lookup with > > test/parsekey Ps de > > It returns: > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > Seems like it works correctly. > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > :) > > -Troy. > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > Hi! > > > > BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr changes > > of the lookup string. > > > > For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, but > > Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD releases. Is > > this a problem witht the changes of the locale support you mentioned? > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 17:34:38 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Daniel Glassey) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:34:38 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences In-Reply-To: <00082914461701.00266@joachim> References: <39AB1344.8EB4A33A@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39AD53BE.22470.2EEC551A@localhost> On 29 Aug 2000, at 14:46, Joachim Ansorg sent forth the message: > Hi Troy! > > Very good ideas you mentioned here! > A common formating is very good, this would give us a common fornat we can work > with (all references have the same format, we can decide how words of Jesus are > displayed, how footnotes are formatted, how strongs are formatted etc.). I > really would prefer this! > > This gives us much more power at frontend side! > We have to find a easy to use, easy to convert format for SwordCommon! Does > somebody have some ideas for this? > > If somebody could implement it I'd be very happy ;-) > > --Joachim Looks like theres these options for SwordCommon format (1) Use GBF. (2) Use ThML. Er, I hate to say it, but I can't see easy agreement here on which one to go for (would love to be proved wrong :) ). I guess it really depends what is easier for the frontends to display sensibly. Any ideas? (3) Develop new format on own. Seems like a waste of time when theres good formats already. Unless of course something simpler is needed for the frontends to deal with. Maybe a modified version of them? (4) Develop format along with ABS and use that. Will take time, depends if the frontends would like a common format to work with now or would wait. (5) Support GBF and ThML and the new format as common to be nice to everyone. defeats the purpose of a 'common' format Daniel From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 18:10:10 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:10:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] Importan Issue: Crossreferences In-Reply-To: <39AD53BE.22470.2EEC551A@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Daniel Glassey wrote: > (1) Use GBF. > (2) Use ThML. > Er, I hate to say it, but I can't see easy agreement here on which one > to go for (would love to be proved wrong :) ). I guess it really > depends what is easier for the frontends to display sensibly. Any > ideas? ThML is great for commentaries & lexica. GBF is great for Bible translations. However, ThML is still great for Bible translations while GBF would be rather poor for commentaries, lexica, etc. So, I'd pretty much suggest that ThML be used as a common format, because it support cross-refs and other features not included in GBF. It's also based on HTML, so most people will have a clue how to write ThML without needing to learn a whole new set of tags. --Chris From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 20:23:39 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:23:39 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00083020233902.10806@joachim> Hi Troy! > Our most common Bible module driver-- RawText-- now is writable. This > will allow editing of most of our existing modules. Very good news! This was a thought of me to implement something llike the following in BibleTime: -Create new module (bible, lexicon or commentary) which will be writeable (managed by BibleTime) -Edit verses etc of the module ->This does help us to get user-made modules like commentaries etc. if they do it step by step and if they don't want to convert a whole module at once this feature is IMHO useful. Does somebody like it or find it useful? With the new RawText thing it will IMHO be easier. > The implementation appends the new entry to the end of the datafile. > Lot's of editing will produce a bigger and bigger data file. Oh! This is not so good. Can't we make it real functional by adding support to write keys somewhere in the text? Otherwise lots of things won't work (e.g. console indexer etc.). In the worst case the text of Genesis 1:1 is at the end of te module! > I'm hoping to add a 'getModifications()' option to this driver that will > find appended entries. This will allow us to put in a 'Submit Edits' > option in the frontends and allow users to submit changes for modules. > I think this will be useful. ?? I do not understabd correctly. Something like I mentioned above (writing at the real position)? > This is one idea that came from dinner with Jerry and Geoff Hastings > last week. It was nice to finally meet someone in person from the > project. We had a good brainstorming lunch! Hey, cool! I like dinners and discussing. Maybe I'll spend some weeks in USA to learn proper english for school, so we'll eat dinner together ;-) > -Troy. -Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 19:28:50 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Paul Gear) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 05:28:50 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] GBF reference code References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000829135556.00b53840@ebible.org> Message-ID: <39AD6072.AB2A67B7@bigfoot.com> Michael Paul Johnson wrote: > > ... > Yes, Troy, using one format as a "hub" for format conversions is a good idea. That was my original intention for GBF. Eventually, I believe we will see a better "hub" format that is based on XML and Unicode. That's what ThML is. It was developed for the sole purpose of providing exactly the sort of common format that we're talking about. Have a read at . Paul --------- "He must become greater; i must become less." - John 3:30 http://www.bigfoot.com/~paulgear From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 20:56:00 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:56:00 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> Message-ID: <39AD74E0.7C5DBEF1@crosswire.org> Joachim and Module Writers, Joachim Ansorg wrote: > Very good news! This was a thought of me to implement something llike the > following in BibleTime: > > -Create new module (bible, lexicon or commentary) which will be writeable > (managed by BibleTime) > -Edit verses etc of the module Have a look at vpl2mod. This uses a few new functions that I've pushed back into the API like: RawVerse::CreateModule RawVerse::settext RawText::operator << (const char *); // this one already existed, but is now implemented in RawText. Now RawText module can be written to with the same interface as a personal commentary. This allows easier module creation with all indexing details taken care of in the API. It is a first step to supporting a GUI based module creation package. > ->This does help us to get user-made modules like commentaries etc. if they > do it step by step and if they don't want to convert a whole module at once > this feature is IMHO useful. > Does somebody like it or find it useful? > > With the new RawText thing it will IMHO be easier. Yes! Frontends to allow users to create modules and commentaries easily is a goal for these features. > > The implementation appends the new entry to the end of the datafile. > > Lot's of editing will produce a bigger and bigger data file. > > Oh! This is not so good. > Can't we make it real functional by adding support to write keys somewhere in > the text? Otherwise lots of things won't work (e.g. console indexer etc.). In > the worst case the text of Genesis 1:1 is at the end of te module! :) It's really not all that bad. Consider this: How do you take a data file that looks like this: Entry 1 Entry 2 Entry 3 and replace 'Entry 2' with 'Entry Two'? In real time, quickly? The easiest way was to add the new entry to the end of the data file and point the index to this location. It really doesn't matter where in the data file the entry exists (RawText doesn't care, at least). We can add 'clean' method, or something to 'defrag' the database if it becomes unmanagable, but this will only happen it the user frequently REPLACES entries. Creating a new module from top to bottom results in a perfect sequential datafile anyway. This is the method I used in vpl2mod. > > I'm hoping to add a 'getModifications()' option to this driver that will > > find appended entries. This will allow us to put in a 'Submit Edits' > > option in the frontends and allow users to submit changes for modules. > > I think this will be useful. > > ?? > I do not understabd correctly. Something like I mentioned above (writing at > the real position)? Well, we have users that don't know how to program, but would love to help by proofing texts. This allows them to make changes and then submit them back to us. The frontend could call getModifications() and pop up an email message with the body of the message listing each modification with a place for a comment by the user for each, and with the sender address of the mail to: text-proofs@crosswire.org or something similar. > > This is one idea that came from dinner with Jerry and Geoff Hastings > > last week. It was nice to finally meet someone in person from the > > project. We had a good brainstorming lunch! > > Hey, cool! > I like dinners and discussing. > Maybe I'll spend some weeks in USA to learn proper english for school, so > we'll eat dinner together ;-) Yes! Please come to America. You can house hop between me and many of my friends for months! :) -Troy. From sword-devel@crosswire.org Wed Aug 30 21:17:36 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:17:36 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <39A85A8F.9E984E02@crosswire.org> <00083017214100.10732@joachim> Message-ID: <39AD79F0.8C3183CE@crosswire.org> Joachim, I don't think you're going to like this reply, but.... > With newest CVS some things are broken now. > IO committed the testprogram keycast for a new test (retrieving th key by > casting to const char*). > > "parsekey Ps de" does output nothing [troy@charis tests]$ ./parsekey Ps de Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 [troy@charis tests]$ > "keycast Genesis 1:4 de" does output 1. Mose 1:1, but it should be 1. Mose 1:4 [troy@charis tests]$ ./keycast "Genesis 1:4" de 1. Mose 1:4 [troy@charis tests]$ :) Make sure you don't have anything in /usr/include/sword or /usr/lib/libsword* And be sure to do a: make clean make from the top level directory. Hope this helps. -Troy. > With not locale support it works. > > --Joachim > > > Joachim, > > Tried a lookup with > > > > test/parsekey Ps de > > > > It returns: > > > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > > > Seems like it works correctly. > > > > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > > > :) > > > > -Troy. > > > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > > > BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr changes > > > of the lookup string. > > > > > > For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, but > > > Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD releases. Is > > > this a problem witht the changes of the locale support you mentioned? > > > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 04:25:01 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:25:01 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] sword_vss_browser_win.zip Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000830211838.00a58460@mail.dancris.com> I upload the source for that vss index browser. You will need to compile it with VB. http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/JH/sword_vss_ browser_win.zip Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 04:37:12 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:37:12 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000829101435.00a59cd0@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000830213218.00a57170@mail.dancris.com> I am not sure I follow you. I know the files are not used in the end product. But, don't you still compile the indexes into the binary? If you don't have the data in some form what are you using to point into vss? Jerry At 01:46 PM 8/29/2000 -0700, you wrote: >The bks and cps files don't actually get used at the moment by sword, but >it might be nice if we could implement support for them if they are >present. With basic KJV verse mapped translations, the speed increase >gained by keeping those arrays static in memory is probably worth the >space in memory. > >--Chris From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 05:31:30 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:31:30 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <00083020233902.10806@joachim> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000830222014.00a5e820@mail.dancris.com> At 08:23 PM 8/30/2000 +0000, Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > The implementation appends the new entry to the end of the datafile. > > Lot's of editing will produce a bigger and bigger data file. > >Oh! This is not so good. >Can't we make it real functional by adding support to write keys somewhere in >the text? Otherwise lots of things won't work (e.g. console indexer etc.). In >the worst case the text of Genesis 1:1 is at the end of te module! As long as all text reads are done by using the indexes, vss, for each verse and not off of some custom index, all verses should read like before. I think it best for other indexes to index a verse by indexing the vss record for the verse. I'm just trying to get my feet wet on this. So just my 2 cents for what it is worth. Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 05:35:29 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:35:29 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <39AD74E0.7C5DBEF1@crosswire.org> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000830223414.00a5d870@mail.dancris.com> At 01:56 PM 8/30/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >Have a look at vpl2mod. This uses a few new functions that I've pushed >back into the API like: I know I should know this, but how do I find that file. :-) Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 07:08:51 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 00:08:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000830213218.00a57170@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: No, the bks and cps files don't get used at all. The data for the KJV's bks and cps files is contained in a static array (it's in the canon.h file). It's simpler to implement, but it requires that all your modules have the same number of verses per chapter per book. That's why we only support KJV verse numbering. Even when bks/cps files are available, the static arrays get used, though it would be cool to add support for reading the files if present for more versatility. --Chris On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Jerry Hastings wrote: > I am not sure I follow you. I know the files are not used in the end > product. But, don't you still compile the indexes into the binary? If you > don't have the data in some form what are you using to point into vss? > > Jerry > > At 01:46 PM 8/29/2000 -0700, you wrote: > > >The bks and cps files don't actually get used at the moment by sword, but > >it might be nice if we could implement support for them if they are > >present. With basic KJV verse mapped translations, the speed increase > >gained by keeping those arrays static in memory is probably worth the > >space in memory. > > > >--Chris > From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 08:49:48 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:49:48 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> <4.2.0.58.20000830223414.00a5d870@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <39AE1C2C.92590705@crosswire.org> Jerry, It's in the latest CVS tree. To use CVS, grab a nice GUI tool like winCVS (http://www.wincvs.org) and check out the sword module from our anonymous cvs server via instructions from wincvs and our cvs info on the dev site. Then, when you have the source, look in the directory: sword/utilities for a file called vpl2mod.cpp Hope this helps. CVS can have a learning curve, at first, but afterward it is a nice way to always keep you local copy of the source in sync with the most current work, and to submit bug fixes, etc. -Troy. PS. It might be helpful to others for you to update our CVS info on the dev page as you learn how to check out the code from a cvs newbie perspective (at least, I'm assuming that you've not used CVS before). Jerry Hastings wrote: > > At 01:56 PM 8/30/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > > >Have a look at vpl2mod. This uses a few new functions that I've pushed > >back into the API like: > > I know I should know this, but how do I find that file. :-) > > Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 16:55:30 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:55:30 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] How to make new module In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20000830213218.00a57170@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000831092041.00a5b870@mail.dancris.com> Right, the files don't get used. But VerseKey::otbks[], VerseKey::otcpss[], VerseKey::ntbks[] and VerseKey::ntcps[] in canon.h are the data of the *.bks and *.cps files reduced to record numbers instead of offset bytes--the same data divided by four for *bks[] and divided by six for *cps[]. Your Idea of looking for files to use if present would make it ease to support other verse systems. You could even have more than one set of indexes for a given translation. The Douay could have dr_ot.bks, dr_ot.cps and can_ot.bks, can_ot.cps. The dr* files could map native dr verse references while the can* files could map KJV style references. Using the dr files one could have access to non-canonical books. And references from KJV based commentaries could correctly locate canonical verses by the can* files. Jerry At 12:08 AM 8/31/2000 -0700, Chris Little wrote: >No, the bks and cps files don't get used at all. The data for the KJV's >bks and cps files is contained in a static array (it's in the canon.h >file). It's simpler to implement, but it requires that all your modules >have the same number of verses per chapter per book. That's why we only >support KJV verse numbering. Even when bks/cps files are available, the >static arrays get used, though it would be cool to add support for reading >the files if present for more versatility. > >--Chris From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 11:38:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Trevor Jenkins) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:38:47 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas Message-ID: On Wednesday, 30 August, 2000 08:36:48, Nathan wrote: > There seems to be quite an interest in the fast > index searching, so I thought I would write up > some of my ideas. Maybe you can use this as > discussion points, disagree, improve, change it > or ignore it. :-) Having an interest in this I'll chime in with comments. I've been putting a separate proposal together as and when my CFS allows. (For those who don't know or have forgotten I worked on such document indexing systems for 20 years.) Anyone wanting to get to grips with the underlying concepts I'd recommend the excellent text "Managing Gigabytes" by Witten, Moffat and Bell. The second edition was published late last year by Morgan Kaufman. > Step 1. Building the wordlist > > The first thing to do is get a list of all the > words in the file. This means reading through > each verse/paragraph and identifying each word. There are some oddities in the Bible text. For example, paragraphs that are split across verses, verses that contain the end of one paragraph and the start of the next, verses that include complete sentences, sentences that cover several verses. Such issues become important for colocation searches (e.g. within sentence, within verse, within paragraph, within N words of, word adjacency). > This is fairly easy, as one can just convert > all punctuation characters to spaces, and then > get a list of the remaining words. But then you'll loose colocation. > Keep in mind other languages have many other accented > characters, that you do not see those as > punctuation! Doesn't that go without saying? :-) > Also keep the ' in mind e.g. "isn't" > is a valid word (else you chop it into "isn" and "t"). The scanning phase could have rules that help distinguish this. Of course, what one wants is for "isn't" to be indexed as the two (adjacent) words "is not". [Note the importance of colocation.] > Also convert the words to lower case. You can > always check for case sensitive or insensitive > at run-time (once you have found the verse/paragraph). There are very few instances where case needs to be considered. Some "commercial" competitors of Sword distinguish between words like LORD and lord making it very difficult to find passages that one does not remember the typographic conventions used in a particular translation. > You might want to do some "stemming" (reducing the > number of words) by removing all words ending > with 's. You might want to do more stemming > e.g. removing the "-ly" at the end of words, or > eliminating plurals (most ending with "s") A lot > depends on your final view. Most times you will > want to give the person searching both the singular > and plural of a word, without them having to worry > about specifying both. There is plenty of work one > can do here. There are some languages (and English is one of them) where conjugation of verbs cannot be handled by a simple stemming scheme as you describe. When working with other Latin languages (eg Finnish) there are real problems with this. > Step 2. The concordance > > The format of the concordance can be in any of the > 3 methods that Joe described (use the best method > for that specific word). > 1. A list of pointers to the verse/paragraph: ... > 2. A range list: ... > 3. A "bitmap": ... Because most words occur more than once even within a single verse/sentence/paragraph you can compress the position pointers to indictate that the terms appear are in the same V/S/P as one another. > PS. Make sure the wordlist is sorted. It speeds > things up (about 8 times in most cases). Data structures 101 will have informed you that searching a sorted list has O(n/2). Hash tables, with a well chosen hash function, appraoch O(1). > Step 3. The search > Expressions: Here some parsing is needed. This is when > the person asks > e.g. "((Jesus and Son) not Father) or Christ*" > The expression will have to be parsed, Yes but not > e.g. into BNF, One could express the search language in BNF but what you probably meant was RPN (reverse polish notation) > The NOT part is the difficult one here :) Do you consider NOT to be monadic or diadic? > Proximity: This is when you want to have some words, but > they can span +/- 5 verses. You know the words are > close together, but not in the same verse/paragraph. > This is obviously more difficult, and that is why few > programs have it. I have not looked at this as yet either. > Just mentioning it here for completeness. As might be guessed from my earlier comments this is an area that I have given a lot of thought to what is involved. :-) > Other languages: Something To think about as well is to make > it easier for people searching other languages. This would > imply that people could type in "seen" and get "seën". > (Afrikaans word for "bless"). Sort of accent-insensitive. > Helps a lot with languages that have many accents. This is similar to the stemming problems I mentioned above. (The commercial system I worked on had a special "morphological analysis" module to deal with this issue.) > Natural language queries: e.g. "Where in the Bible can I > read the 10 Commandments?" Skip this for now... I see this as a separate layer between the user interface and the search expressions. > Spelling mistakes: If a word is not found, I was thinking > on using a "soundex" type routine to get the nearest words > to it. (soundex will associate "kayotik" with "chaotic") > I don't know if soundex is the correct one. There are better > routines. (Might even use something like PPM they use with > natural language queries.) Then suggest an alternative to > the person. Probably the best one is NYSIIS rather than Soundex. But where are the spelling mistakes coming from? Hopefully never the text but rather finger trouble on the part of the user. For the former I say clean up the text for the latter I say do nothing :-| let them note their mistake and take corrective action themselves (retyping the correct terms or using wildcards). > You need to look at this, especially with the way people > spell "color" vs. "colour", etc. The KJV uses "colour". > (I could throw in some flame-bait here about > "proper" English ) Thou shalt not. :-) > Step 4. Ranking Hate it. Don't like it. Never use it. Precision/recall studies haven't demonstrated that ranking really works (for the end-user). > The ranking is then done on a "majority rules" method. > The verse with the most occurrences get the top spot. > A better method would be to look at > 1. The book/chapter with the most hits > 2. Then the verse with the most hits. Moffat/Witten/Bell discuss various weighing schemes. As you can see I'm no fan of ranking so I leave it as an exercise to the reader (of MWB) to decide what scheme might be appropriate. > Step 5. Optionally compressing the text > > Because all searching is basically done in the index, > the text does not have to be in uncompressed format > any more, and can be compressed. When a verse needs to > be displayed on the screen, it is uncompressed on the > fly and then displayed. This way you can get the entire > KJV plus index in just over 2 Mb. With full colocation information (in a compressed index file) one can do away with the text completely. Okay so there is more work to be done when displaying the text but it's an option. > I thought these verses were sort of applicable... :) You forgot one: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11 AV. :-) Regards, Trevor British Sign Language is not inarticulate handwaving; it's a living language. So recognise it now. -- <>< Re: deemed! From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 17:28:04 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Joachim Ansorg) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:28:04 +0000 Subject: [sword-devel] Problems with Locale In-Reply-To: <39AD79F0.8C3183CE@crosswire.org> References: <00082622014801.31111@joachim> <00083017214100.10732@joachim> <39AD79F0.8C3183CE@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <00083117280401.00276@joachim> Troy, thank you for your answer. It showed that somehow my compile lb was screwed up. It linked but worked incorrectly. I did "make clean; make" now it does work again. --Joachim > > "parsekey Ps de" does output nothing > > [troy@charis tests]$ ./parsekey Ps de > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > [troy@charis tests]$ > > "keycast Genesis 1:4 de" does output 1. Mose 1:1, but it should be 1. > > Mose 1:4 > > [troy@charis tests]$ ./keycast "Genesis 1:4" de > 1. Mose 1:4 > [troy@charis tests]$ > > :) > > Make sure you don't have anything in /usr/include/sword or > /usr/lib/libsword* > And be sure to do a: > make clean > make > > >from the top level directory. > > Hope this helps. > > -Troy. > > > With not locale support it works. > > > > --Joachim > > > > > Joachim, > > > Tried a lookup with > > > > > > test/parsekey Ps de > > > > > > It returns: > > > > > > Psalmen 1:1 - Psalmen 150:6 > > > > > > Seems like it works correctly. > > > > > > > > > Alright.... How do I compile Bibletime CVS? What do I need on my box? > > > > > > :) > > > > > > -Troy. > > > > > > Joachim Ansorg wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > > > > > BibleTime 0.24 does now have problems looking up booknames afetr > > > > changes of the lookup string. > > > > > > > > For example if I enter Ps is should be extended to Psalms in German, > > > > but Genesis in German does appear. It worked in earlier SWORD > > > > releases. Is this a problem witht the changes of the locale support > > > > you mentioned? > > > > > > > > --Joachim From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 20:24:32 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:24:32 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <39AE1C2C.92590705@crosswire.org> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> <4.2.0.58.20000830223414.00a5d870@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000831130746.00a60390@mail.dancris.com> At 01:49 AM 8/31/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >Jerry, > It's in the latest CVS tree. To use CVS, grab a nice GUI tool like >winCVS (http://www.wincvs.org) and check out the sword module from our >anonymous cvs server via instructions from wincvs and our cvs info on >the dev site. Then, when you have the source, look in the directory: >sword/utilities for a file called vpl2mod.cpp OK, got it working. I was hoping there was a working binary. But at least Cvs is set up now. >PS. It might be helpful to others for you to update our CVS info on the >dev page as you learn how to check out the code from a cvs newbie >perspective (at least, I'm assuming that you've not used CVS before). Yes, newbie. As long as people are sharing their favorite Bible/software metaphors, here is one for good documentation. Jer 33.3 "Call to me, and I will answer you, and will show you great things, and difficult, which you don't know." WEB :-) Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 20:39:57 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Nathan) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:39:57 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c0138b$9ffaa780$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Hello, Good, at least my bit of writing got some response Trevor Jenkins wrote: > (For those who don't know or have forgotten I worked on > such document indexing systems for 20 years.) I'm definitely the amateur. :) Been playing with it for a few years, but not worked with it. > Anyone wanting to get to grips with the underlying concepts > I'd recommend the excellent text "Managing Gigabytes" by Witten, > Moffat and Bell. The second edition was published late last > year by Morgan Kaufman. One sees their names pop up all over when you read about this topic, esp. in the research papers. > There are some oddities in the Bible text. For example, paragraphs > that are split across verses, verses that contain the end of one > paragraph and the start of the next, verses that include complete > sentences, sentences that cover several verses. Such issues become > important for colocation searches (e.g. within sentence, within verse, > within paragraph, within N words of, word adjacency). You are definitely taking it a few steps further than I did. I did not think about that level. > There are very few instances where case needs to be considered. > Some "commercial" competitors of Sword distinguish between words like > LORD and lord making it very difficult to find passages that one does > not remember the typographic conventions used in a particular translation. I fully agree! > There are some languages (and English is one of them) where > conjugation of verbs cannot be handled by a simple stemming scheme as > you describe. When working with other Latin languages (eg Finnish) > there are real problems with this. There are plenty of examples one can think about where any program will just make a mess of it. -ly: Take "early" -- The program will "stem" it to "ear", which is wrong. Just the simple -s at the back can give problems, deciding whether it is a plural word or not, and what the singular form is. I was thinking about a "manual" scheme. The KJV has about 12650 words. One only needs a few people going through the complete list, associating words with one another. Such work can be done because in the case of the Bible you have a limited number of words, that stays fixed. That's what I meant by "There is plenty of work one can do here." Do you think a manual method would work? The problem probably is having words with multiple meanings. Here Hebrew is worse than Finnish or most others. Concerning the other languages; Absolutely. It is very difficult. And certainly not for a generic program to do. I would say probably impossible for Hebrew. In Afrikaans and Dutch you can however write some successful routines. >> Step 2. The concordance >> The format of the concordance can be in any of the >> 3 methods... >> 1. A list of pointers to the verse/paragraph: ... >> 2. A range list: ... >> 3. A "bitmap": ... > Because most words occur more than once even within a > single verse/sentence/paragraph you can compress the position > pointers to indictate that the terms appear are in the > same V/S/P as one another. Could you explain this some more please? > Yes but not >> e.g. into BNF, > One could express the search language in BNF but what you > probably meant was RPN (reverse polish notation) Oops! Yes, RPN. >> The NOT part is the difficult one here :) > Do you consider NOT to be monadic or diadic? When applied to the "bitmap", it "inverses" it, so then it is monadic. It is in evaluating the search expression that it becomes more tricky. >> Proximity: ... > As might be guessed from my earlier comments this is an > area that I have given a lot of thought to what is involved. :-) I would gladly learn some more about this. This where I believe the real value of powerful searching can come in. >> Spelling mistakes: ... > But where are the spelling mistakes coming from? The user. See my example about "color" vs. "colour", which is probably not strictly a spelling mistake? (Depends on if you speak "proper" English ) > Thou shalt not. :-) Oops, ... >> Step 4. Ranking... > Hate it. Don't like it. Never use it. Precision/recall studies > haven't demonstrated that ranking really works (for the end-user). In the spiritual a "majority rules" method does not work either. That's why the Bible speaks about a "Kingdom" (One that rules) Many times the Scripture you are searching for is the one without the repetition of words. Also with Scripture the person searching has an idea of roughly where in the Bible it is expected. Ranking would just confuse that "gut feel" they have. >> Step 5. Optionally compressing the text > With full colocation information (in a compressed index file) one can do > away with the text completely. Okay so there is more work to be done when > displaying the text but it's an option. Is it strictly speaking still an "index file" in that case? :) Just for interest sake: What are your ideas on the format of such a file? I haven't really thought about taking the collocation information along as well. But for proximity searching one would need it... God bless, nathan From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 21:02:24 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:02:24 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Implemented writable interface in RawText In-Reply-To: <39AE1C2C.92590705@crosswire.org> References: <39ACF5FD.EC8713E6@crosswire.org> <00083020233902.10806@joachim> <4.2.0.58.20000830223414.00a5d870@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000831134736.00a5e640@mail.dancris.com> At 01:49 AM 8/31/2000 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >PS. It might be helpful to others for you to update our CVS info on the >dev page as you learn how to check out the code from a cvs newbie >perspective (at least, I'm assuming that you've not used CVS before). While we are thinking about the dev page, how do most people first find it? We are talking about: http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/ aren't we? From the Sword home page the dev link does not link to the above page. (Not that you want it too, with those keys on there.) From the mailing list link one can get on the list but there is no other dev info there. Do people get info when the subscribe to the list? I don't remember. Some of the above page is out dated. I can redo it. Is there anything more than CVS info people would like to see? Anyone feel free to reply. Jerry From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 21:15:47 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Brandon Staggs) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:15:47 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas References: <000201c0138b$9ffaa780$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: <000f01c01390$b45a2980$6501a8c0@bmoney> > >> Proximity: ... > > As might be guessed from my earlier comments this is an > > area that I have given a lot of thought to what is involved. :-) > > I would gladly learn some more about this. This where I believe > the real value of powerful searching can come in. For what it's worth, proximity searching where the users says "these words within X verses of each other" should be fairly trivial to implement, once you have your bitmaps set. All you have to do is instead of ANDing the two bitmaps (if they are searching for two words) is iterate through each position, then look for a corresponding position in the other maps within X positions. Then set up a new bitmap and flip all the bits in that range True where necessary. If you want to offer "within X words" or "within X sentences" or "within X paragraphs" or whathaveyou then you need to get more complex and pick up that _Managing Gigabytes_ book. But the reality is that most people are fine doing a simple AND search within verses, and this is by far the greatest use of the searching funtion in Bible software. -Brandon From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 23:22:10 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (Jerry Hastings) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:22:10 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] sword_vss_browser_win.zip In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000830211838.00a58460@mail.dancris.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000831161858.00a59ef0@mail.dancris.com> At 09:25 PM 8/30/2000 -0700, Jerry Hastings wrote: >I upload the source for that vss index browser. You will need to compile >it with VB. http://www.crosswire.org/sword/ALPHAcckswwlkrfre22034820285912/JH/sword_vss_ browser_win.zip From sword-devel@crosswire.org Thu Aug 31 23:24:23 2000 From: sword-devel@crosswire.org (David Burry) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:24:23 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Fast search -- some ideas In-Reply-To: <000f01c01390$b45a2980$6501a8c0@bmoney> References: <000201c0138b$9ffaa780$02801c0a@hsjnbdns.jnb.sap-ag.de> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000831150628.00e588e0@130.248.127.106> At 11:15 AM 8/31/2000 -1000, Brandon Staggs wrote: >> >> Proximity: ... >> > As might be guessed from my earlier comments this is an >> > area that I have given a lot of thought to what is involved. :-) >> >> I would gladly learn some more about this. This where I believe >> the real value of powerful searching can come in. > >For what it's worth, proximity searching where the users says "these words >within X verses of each other" should be fairly trivial to implement, once >you have your bitmaps set. All you have to do is instead of ANDing the two >bitmaps (if they are searching for two words) is iterate through each >position, then look for a corresponding position in the other maps within X >positions. Then set up a new bitmap and flip all the bits in that range True >where necessary. What if you use bit shifts of one word's bitmap to create a proximity mask, then AND that proximity mask with the original bitmap of the other word to get proximity matches? Just that bitwise operations should in theory be much faster than interating/scanning looking for something. I'm still not sure of the quickest way to do bitwise operations on very large bitmaps (say, 100K for a bitmap of every word-proximity instance of a certain word in the Bible instead of the smaller 4K one required for just verse operations), but I'll read the book, I'll read the book! ;o) >If you want to offer "within X words" or "within X sentences" or "within X >paragraphs" or whathaveyou then you need to get more complex and pick up >that _Managing Gigabytes_ book. Just ordered! Thank you all very much! >But the reality is that most people are fine doing a simple AND search >within verses, and this is by far the greatest use of the searching funtion >in Bible software. True, but I'm interested in doing much more as soon as I learn how to make it fast and efficient... ;o) Dave