From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Wed Jan  1 05:24:47 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2025 10:24:47 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] diatheke - plain output error
In-Reply-To: <CAHxvOVJ2tnZx+q8-9owFNk3C-EMUN4xHUXiM5domV4x58aSV3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b133cda7a87052b25e4b1223293177ed6dea1548.camel@gmx.net>
 <NHO86ewUOsJhfUirkUYHq9q-88AQoTd0Bs_U4tfIMIxjPeEt57BhvNEkbpTKj3f8t-Mt0CIQExwTmgB2rnZqFYhy27M8XUV6TpAziBl7-3k=@protonmail.com>
 <CAHxvOVJ2tnZx+q8-9owFNk3C-EMUN4xHUXiM5domV4x58aSV3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5BCTjG1Cu7ScrPIwHfRKtgbMgIr5YF6YhTJjAndC7ebT72SyhBROywN7Se0-bd7gaeou90GL2ZKrptPz1ze16H1pOnBLBg58w1tIg2LKwQ=@protonmail.com>

Greg,

I?d simply not got round to installing them from your .tar.gz file.

I was assuming you would first fix the null date issue, then I wouldn?t need to do so twice.

David

On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 00:00, Greg Hellings <[greg.hellings at gmail.com](mailto:On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 00:00, Greg Hellings <<a href=)> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 12:53?PM David Haslam < dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> I just tried with diatheke.exe that is bundled with Xiphos for Windows.
>> 4.2.1 (gtk2 webkit1)
>>
>> This may be based on an earlier version of SWORD.
>> The utilities were all dated 2020-04-26.
>>
>> The plain filter did not show the fault you reported. eg.
>>
>> Genesis 1:15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
>>
>> NB. On my current Windows 11 x64 system, I don't have the latest SWORD utilities. Greg was working on them a few weeks ago but his new procedure has not yet produced the desired results.
>
> What's the shortcoming here? The only complaint I recall was the date on the files being set to Unix timestamp of 0, but nothing related to the actual execution of them. If there's an outstanding issue with them, please let me know. I had moved on to trying to build a version with native Windows on Arm support. The latest versions of the MinGW tooling supports building that target.
>
> --Greg
>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 31st, 2024 at 4:53 PM, Peter von Kaehne < refdoc at gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Trying to use the diatheke and I note that it puts out incomplete
>>> verses. (Diatheke
>>>
>>> peter at peter-thinkpadx220:~/Source/sword/utilities/diatheke$ ./diatheke
>>> -b KJV -f plain -k Gen 15.1
>>> Genesis 15:1: After these things the word of the
>>> (KJV)
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> peter at peter-thinkpadx220:~/Source/sword/utilities/diatheke$ diatheke --
>>> help
>>>
>>> Diatheke command-line SWORD frontend Version 4.8 (SWORD: 1.9.0.3893)
>>> Copyright 1999-2018 by the CrossWire Bible Society
>>>
>>> I was going to check the bug tracker but as that is down I had no
>>> chance, yet.
>>>
>>> The same error happens with the NASB. Reviewing the module - it appears
>>> mainly that text inside tags vanishes, so I guess this is a filter
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> I do not know who last laid hand at the plain filter set, but if others
>>> confirm that this is an error and not a problem with my set up, I will
>>> look further into this.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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From scribe at crosswire.org  Sat Jan  4 00:31:58 2025
From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2025 22:31:58 -0700
Subject: [sword-devel] Introduction
Message-ID: <15813443-2a0e-47e8-adcf-d64ca9db13d0@crosswire.org>

Dear team,

I'd like to introduce Armen Danielian.? He has a desire to build Bible 
study apps and is interested in the LXX and in using AI to assist in 
development.

I hope everyone is at the start of a relaxing weekend!

Troy


From zdposter at gmail.com  Wed Jan  8 09:57:25 2025
From: zdposter at gmail.com (ZdPo Ster)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2025 15:57:25 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] OSIS commentary module example
In-Reply-To: <CAC=ZCwzaaq3cbPr5ZMkmO0B6V4e-OExqcC5CE3TU7A3eiozmbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC=ZCwzaaq3cbPr5ZMkmO0B6V4e-OExqcC5CE3TU7A3eiozmbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC=ZCwzFK7M5spyAj6p9tiMciA4oMGnsmVSH-qu8DsEdb2kWMA@mail.gmail.com>

I tried to create one but it does not work.

Here are my steps:

1. As far as I understand https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_Commentaries OSIS
Commentary module is like a Bible module with slightly different markups
for verses. So I created test bible module (see attachment
sword_text_test.zip) and it worked fine:
> osis2mod test_text/modules/texts/rawtext/test_text bible_example.osis.xml
> sudo installmgr -li test_text/ TestOSIS
> diatheke -b TestOSIS -k Gn 1:1
Genesis 1:1: In the beginning God created the Heauen and the Earth.
(TestOSIS)

2. Based on wiki I tried to make adaption for Commentary module (see
sword_com_test.zip) but it does not work (no output and no error):
> osis2mod test_com/modules/comments/rawcom/test_com commentary.osis.xml
> sudo installmgr -li test_com/ Test_Com
> diatheke -b Test_Com -k Gn 1:1
Genesis 1:1:
(Test_Com)

I tried other commentary and it works:
> diatheke -b Augustin -k Gn 1:1
Genesis 1:1: <div annotateRef="Gen.1.1-Job.42.17 Prov.1.1-Mal.4.6"
annotateType="commentary" sID="gen1" type="section"/> This module only
contains content from New Testament material and the Psalms. <div
annotateRef="Gen.1.1-Job.42.17 Prov.1.1-Mal.4.6" annotateType="commentary"
eID="gen1" type="section"/>
(Augustin)

I tried the Windows (Xiphos) version of tools and OpenSUSE version, but it
did not help.

I tried osis2mod with debug option but I see any problem there:
> osis2mod test_com/modules/comments/rawcom/test_com commentary.osis.xml -d
512
You are running osis2mod: $Rev: 3431 $
DEBUG(ARGS):
        path: test_com/modules/comments/rawcom/test_com
        osisDoc: commentary.osis.xml
        create: 0
        compressType:
        blockType: 4
        compressLevel: 0
        cipherKey:
        normalize: 1
DEBUG(FOUND): End of header found
DEBUG(FOUND): Found first div and pitching prior material: <xml
encoding="UTF-8" version="1.0"> <osis xmlns="
http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace" xmlns:xsi="
http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:schemaLocation="
http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace
http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd"> <osisText
osisIDWork="EXAMPLE" osisRefWork="Commentary" xml:lang="en"> <header> <work
osisWork="EXAMPLE"> <title>King James Version of 1611</title> <identifier
type="OSIS">EXAMPLE.TutorEncoding</identifier>
<refSystem>Bible.EXAMPLE</refSystem> </work> <work osisWork="Commentary">
<refSystem>Bible.EXAMPLE</refSystem> </work> </header>
DEBUG(FOUND): New book is Gen
DEBUG(FOUND): Current chapter is Gen.1 (Gen.1)
DEBUG(FOUND): Entering verse
DEBUG(FOUND): New current verse is Gen.1.1
DEBUG(FOUND): osisID/annotateRef is adjusted to: Gen.1.1
DEBUG(FOUND): Entering verse
DEBUG(FOUND): New current verse is Gen.1.2
DEBUG(FOUND): osisID/annotateRef is adjusted to: Gen.1.2
DEBUG(FOUND): Entering verse
DEBUG(FOUND): New current verse is Gen.1.3
DEBUG(FOUND): osisID/annotateRef is adjusted to: Gen.1.3
SUCCESS: osis2mod: has finished its work and will now rest

Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong?

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 at 16:28, ZdPo Ster <zdposter at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Is there an available OSIS commentary module (source)?
> I would like to have some full example for generating module with osis2mod.
>
> Zdenko
>
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From zdposter at gmail.com  Thu Jan  9 02:39:16 2025
From: zdposter at gmail.com (ZdPo Ster)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2025 08:39:16 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] OSIS commentary module example
In-Reply-To: <CAC=ZCwzFK7M5spyAj6p9tiMciA4oMGnsmVSH-qu8DsEdb2kWMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC=ZCwzaaq3cbPr5ZMkmO0B6V4e-OExqcC5CE3TU7A3eiozmbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAC=ZCwzFK7M5spyAj6p9tiMciA4oMGnsmVSH-qu8DsEdb2kWMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC=ZCwzc+_fim1hpS6AHXe7Pv_4g71voVEGyAM6_hatqb-Ls9w@mail.gmail.com>

So it turns out I had problem in test_com.conf file: `ModDrv` should be
`RawCom` (and not `RawCom4` as it is in e.g. augustin.conf or
chrysostom.conf).


On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 at 15:57, ZdPo Ster <zdposter at gmail.com> wrote:

> I tried to create one but it does not work.
>
> Here are my steps:
>
> 1. As far as I understand https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_Commentaries
> OSIS Commentary module is like a Bible module with slightly different
> markups for verses. So I created test bible module (see attachment
> sword_text_test.zip) and it worked fine:
> > osis2mod test_text/modules/texts/rawtext/test_text bible_example.osis.xml
> > sudo installmgr -li test_text/ TestOSIS
> > diatheke -b TestOSIS -k Gn 1:1
> Genesis 1:1: In the beginning God created the Heauen and the Earth.
> (TestOSIS)
>
> 2. Based on wiki I tried to make adaption for Commentary module (see
> sword_com_test.zip) but it does not work (no output and no error):
> > osis2mod test_com/modules/comments/rawcom/test_com commentary.osis.xml
> > sudo installmgr -li test_com/ Test_Com
> > diatheke -b Test_Com -k Gn 1:1
> Genesis 1:1:
> (Test_Com)
>
> I tried other commentary and it works:
> > diatheke -b Augustin -k Gn 1:1
> Genesis 1:1: <div annotateRef="Gen.1.1-Job.42.17 Prov.1.1-Mal.4.6"
> annotateType="commentary" sID="gen1" type="section"/> This module only
> contains content from New Testament material and the Psalms. <div
> annotateRef="Gen.1.1-Job.42.17 Prov.1.1-Mal.4.6" annotateType="commentary"
> eID="gen1" type="section"/>
> (Augustin)
>
> I tried the Windows (Xiphos) version of tools and OpenSUSE version, but it
> did not help.
>
> I tried osis2mod with debug option but I see any problem there:
> > osis2mod test_com/modules/comments/rawcom/test_com commentary.osis.xml
> -d 512
> You are running osis2mod: $Rev: 3431 $
> DEBUG(ARGS):
>         path: test_com/modules/comments/rawcom/test_com
>         osisDoc: commentary.osis.xml
>         create: 0
>         compressType:
>         blockType: 4
>         compressLevel: 0
>         cipherKey:
>         normalize: 1
> DEBUG(FOUND): End of header found
> DEBUG(FOUND): Found first div and pitching prior material: <xml
> encoding="UTF-8" version="1.0"> <osis xmlns="
> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace" xmlns:xsi="
> http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:schemaLocation="
> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace
> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd"> <osisText
> osisIDWork="EXAMPLE" osisRefWork="Commentary" xml:lang="en"> <header> <work
> osisWork="EXAMPLE"> <title>King James Version of 1611</title> <identifier
> type="OSIS">EXAMPLE.TutorEncoding</identifier>
> <refSystem>Bible.EXAMPLE</refSystem> </work> <work osisWork="Commentary">
> <refSystem>Bible.EXAMPLE</refSystem> </work> </header>
> DEBUG(FOUND): New book is Gen
> DEBUG(FOUND): Current chapter is Gen.1 (Gen.1)
> DEBUG(FOUND): Entering verse
> DEBUG(FOUND): New current verse is Gen.1.1
> DEBUG(FOUND): osisID/annotateRef is adjusted to: Gen.1.1
> DEBUG(FOUND): Entering verse
> DEBUG(FOUND): New current verse is Gen.1.2
> DEBUG(FOUND): osisID/annotateRef is adjusted to: Gen.1.2
> DEBUG(FOUND): Entering verse
> DEBUG(FOUND): New current verse is Gen.1.3
> DEBUG(FOUND): osisID/annotateRef is adjusted to: Gen.1.3
> SUCCESS: osis2mod: has finished its work and will now rest
>
> Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong?
>
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 at 16:28, ZdPo Ster <zdposter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Is there an available OSIS commentary module (source)?
>> I would like to have some full example for generating module with
>> osis2mod.
>>
>> Zdenko
>>
>
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Sun Jan 12 17:12:40 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 22:12:40 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
Message-ID: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>

Dear all,

Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!

NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.

cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.

Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.

cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"

Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.

I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.

Best regards,

David

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

From johan.marais at messianic.co.za  Sun Jan 12 19:51:36 2025
From: johan.marais at messianic.co.za (Johan Marais)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 00:51:36 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB9PR09MB492294B655AF239DCCD1CB87C01F2@DB9PR09MB4922.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Very sad indeed if that is the case, I was looking forward for an update to PocketSword as I am using it almost daily.

In His Name

Johan

________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> On Behalf Of David Haslam
Sent: Monday, 13 January 2025 00:13
To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword



Dear all,



Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!



NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.



cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.



Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.



cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"



Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.



I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.



Best regards,



David



Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

_______________________________________________

sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org<mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel

Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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From kahunapule at eBible.org  Sun Jan 12 20:20:01 2025
From: kahunapule at eBible.org (Kahunapule Michael Johnson)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 15:20:01 -1000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <1c51dcdc-9ffb-48b7-917f-6a5b1b5e82d7@eBible.org>

Sadly, Craig dropped the ball on this one. There is another possible volunteer that I will be talking to soon...

On 1/12/25 12:12, David Haslam wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!
>
> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>
> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>
> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>
> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
>
> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.
>
> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page


-- 
signature

Peace,
*/Michael Johnson/**
26 HIWALANI LOOP ? MAKAWAO HI 96768-8747*? USA
mljohnson.org <https://mljohnson.org/> ? eBible.org <https://eBible.org> ? WorldEnglish.Bible <https://WorldEnglish.Bible> ? PNG.Bible <https://PNG.Bible>
Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp/Telephone: +1 808-333-6921
Skype: kahunapule ? Telegram: @kahunapule ? Facebook: fb.me/kahunapule <https://www.facebook.com/kahunapule>
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Mon Jan 13 05:24:25 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 10:24:25 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <1c51dcdc-9ffb-48b7-917f-6a5b1b5e82d7@eBible.org>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <1c51dcdc-9ffb-48b7-917f-6a5b1b5e82d7@eBible.org>
Message-ID: <fCSUGGp14Jz3-s2YsNdGO4FUByklrYawdK3MYFlvjOV17vGgwgEFTL9obTcXAZGf6gS5ax2LYO1ypMVTQYQFx5ccPJvbZrSRhzsQdTRtCyw=@protonmail.com>

FYI. Nic used Atlassian BitBucket for the software development.

[niccarter / pocketsword ? Bitbucket](https://bitbucket.org/niccarter/pocketsword/src/main/)

Best regards,

David

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.

On Monday, January 13th, 2025 at 1:20 AM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson <kahunapule at eBible.org> wrote:

> Sadly, Craig dropped the ball on this one. There is another possible volunteer that I will be talking to soon...
>
> On 1/12/25 12:12, David Haslam wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!
>>
>> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>>
>> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>>
>> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>>
>> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
>>
>> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.
>>
>> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list:
>> sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
> --
>
> Peace,
> Michael Johnson
> 26 HIWALANI LOOP ? MAKAWAO HI 96768-8747 ? USA
> [mljohnson.org](https://mljohnson.org/) ? eBible.org ? WorldEnglish.Bible ? PNG.Bible
> Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp/Telephone: +1 808-333-6921
> Skype: kahunapule ? Telegram: @kahunapule ? [Facebook: fb.me/kahunapule](https://www.facebook.com/kahunapule)
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Mon Jan 13 05:26:15 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 10:26:15 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>

FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki

https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword

Best regards,

David

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!
> 
> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
> 
> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
> 
> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
> 
> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
> 
> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.
> 
> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> David
> 
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

From kahunapule at eBible.org  Mon Jan 13 21:56:42 2025
From: kahunapule at eBible.org (Kahunapule Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 16:56:42 -1000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>

I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to contribute to that effort, please let me know.


On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
> FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
>
> https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>
> On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!
>>
>> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>>
>> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>>
>> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>>
>> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
>>
>> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.
>>
>> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page



From greg.hellings at gmail.com  Mon Jan 13 22:23:11 2025
From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 21:23:11 -0600
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
Message-ID: <CAHxvOVLOCBh=FOahFVkJvYGWpuqTppHEDCnc7c4BcOxQ5et-HA@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a reason, if a rewrite is in the works, not to collaborate along
with another effort that is cross-platform capable? There are several good
toolkits already out there that can produce very serviceable mobile apps.
Ezra is built, I believe, on Apache's Cordova and already works very well
across a variety of screen sizes. I've used it on desktop and on my phone.
And it even adapts well between my phone in narrow mode and in foldable
mode (I have a Pixel 9 Pro Fold), properly using the extra screen real
estate that it gains in open mode.

Thus, an iOS build of it could probably be produced as well as an iPadOS
version that adapts well. I don't think a version is currently being built
for iOS but I think that's just a limitation of the developer not using or
having Mac devices.

--Greg

On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 8:57?PM Kahunapule Michael Johnson <
kahunapule at ebible.org> wrote:

> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that
> probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to
> contribute to that effort, please let me know.
>
>
> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
> > FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
> >
> > https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > David
> >
> > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> >
> > On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam <
> dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the
> App Store!
> >>
> >> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
> >>
> >> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software
> after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
> >>
> >> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for
> iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
> >>
> >> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month
> Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to
> their latest data privacy standards?"
> >>
> >> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had
> volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any
> progress since then.
> >>
> >> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad
> devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> > _______________________________________________
> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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From arraybolt3 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 13 22:35:50 2025
From: arraybolt3 at gmail.com (Aaron Rainbolt)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 21:35:50 -0600
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <CAHxvOVLOCBh=FOahFVkJvYGWpuqTppHEDCnc7c4BcOxQ5et-HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <CAHxvOVLOCBh=FOahFVkJvYGWpuqTppHEDCnc7c4BcOxQ5et-HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFfBHfafd+xxW932EtgyBk0QM0-01NaCkMeGXUwY733q5LwgNg@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone managed to clone the Kotlin Multiplatform app that showed up
on the mailing lists some time ago, that might be a worthwhile base to
start from. https://crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2024-November/050252.html
Unfortunately the author seems to have deleted their repo already.
(I've CC'd them just in case they still have the code handy and are
interested in sharing if someone's interested in using it.)

On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 9:23?PM Greg Hellings <greg.hellings at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is there a reason, if a rewrite is in the works, not to collaborate along with another effort that is cross-platform capable? There are several good toolkits already out there that can produce very serviceable mobile apps. Ezra is built, I believe, on Apache's Cordova and already works very well across a variety of screen sizes. I've used it on desktop and on my phone. And it even adapts well between my phone in narrow mode and in foldable mode (I have a Pixel 9 Pro Fold), properly using the extra screen real estate that it gains in open mode.
>
> Thus, an iOS build of it could probably be produced as well as an iPadOS version that adapts well. I don't think a version is currently being built for iOS but I think that's just a limitation of the developer not using or having Mac devices.
>
> --Greg
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 8:57?PM Kahunapule Michael Johnson <kahunapule at ebible.org> wrote:
>>
>> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to contribute to that effort, please let me know.
>>
>>
>> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
>> > FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
>> >
>> > https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>> >
>> > On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!
>> >>
>> >> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>> >>
>> >> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>> >>
>> >> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>> >>
>> >> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
>> >>
>> >> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.
>> >>
>> >> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >> David
>> >>
>> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

From mjdenham at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 02:56:12 2025
From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 07:56:12 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <CAFfBHfafd+xxW932EtgyBk0QM0-01NaCkMeGXUwY733q5LwgNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <CAHxvOVLOCBh=FOahFVkJvYGWpuqTppHEDCnc7c4BcOxQ5et-HA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFfBHfafd+xxW932EtgyBk0QM0-01NaCkMeGXUwY733q5LwgNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ30_ONWby9doc+h1Gut-pfEGhb3AN_BaMr2q1==92cuHp4PrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for copying me in.  The app is not deleted, just made private,  I am
still working on the app and initially targeting Android and iOS.

I made it private because there is a lot to do and don't plan to release it
for a while, so I wanted to avoid the possibility of people ripping it off
with ads.

This app is a bit different to apps like Pocket Sword as I am targeting
people like my daughters, so it will hopefully be simpler and prettier, but
there could be a variant that would be more sophisticated.

Best regards
Martin

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 at 03:36, Aaron Rainbolt <arraybolt3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> If anyone managed to clone the Kotlin Multiplatform app that showed up
> on the mailing lists some time ago, that might be a worthwhile base to
> start from.
> https://crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2024-November/050252.html
> Unfortunately the author seems to have deleted their repo already.
> (I've CC'd them just in case they still have the code handy and are
> interested in sharing if someone's interested in using it.)
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 9:23?PM Greg Hellings <greg.hellings at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a reason, if a rewrite is in the works, not to collaborate
> along with another effort that is cross-platform capable? There are several
> good toolkits already out there that can produce very serviceable mobile
> apps. Ezra is built, I believe, on Apache's Cordova and already works very
> well across a variety of screen sizes. I've used it on desktop and on my
> phone. And it even adapts well between my phone in narrow mode and in
> foldable mode (I have a Pixel 9 Pro Fold), properly using the extra screen
> real estate that it gains in open mode.
> >
> > Thus, an iOS build of it could probably be produced as well as an iPadOS
> version that adapts well. I don't think a version is currently being built
> for iOS but I think that's just a limitation of the developer not using or
> having Mac devices.
> >
> > --Greg
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 8:57?PM Kahunapule Michael Johnson <
> kahunapule at ebible.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that
> probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to
> contribute to that effort, please let me know.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
> >> > FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
> >> >
> >> > https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> >
> >> > David
> >> >
> >> > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> >> >
> >> > On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam <
> dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Dear all,
> >> >>
> >> >> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from
> the App Store!
> >> >>
> >> >> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
> >> >>
> >> >> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the
> software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
> >> >>
> >> >> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only
> for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
> >> >>
> >> >> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next
> month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not
> updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
> >> >>
> >> >> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had
> volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any
> progress since then.
> >> >>
> >> >> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and
> iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >>
> >> >> David
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> >> > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> >> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> >> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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From fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be  Tue Jan 14 05:40:35 2025
From: fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be (Fr Cyrille)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 11:40:35 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <CAHxvOVLOCBh=FOahFVkJvYGWpuqTppHEDCnc7c4BcOxQ5et-HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <CAHxvOVLOCBh=FOahFVkJvYGWpuqTppHEDCnc7c4BcOxQ5et-HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ed0a2b84-d1fd-4232-99e1-60cb241abd73@tiberiade.be>




Le 14/01/2025 ? 04:23, Greg Hellings a ?crit?:
> Is there a reason, if a rewrite is in the works, not to collaborate 
> along with another effort that is cross-platform capable? There are 
> several good toolkits already out there that can produce very 
> serviceable mobile apps. Ezra is built, I believe, on Apache's Cordova 
> and already works very well across a variety of screen sizes. I've 
> used it on desktop and on my phone. And it even adapts well between my 
> phone in narrow mode and in foldable mode (I have a Pixel 9 Pro Fold), 
> properly using the extra screen real estate that it gains in open mode.
>

I strongly agree with Greg, we have such a lack of developers (Karl 
promised a xiphos release for Christmas but he didn't have time) that if 
we could gather our forces on a few flagship projects it would be great. 
For ios Ezra is a good idea, otherwise of course there's Andbible, and I 
think Bishop is also on iOS.
I also propose that we entrust this demand for developers to the Lord. 
May He send us the ones we need.


> Thus, an iOS build of it could probably be produced as well as an 
> iPadOS version that adapts well. I don't think a version is currently 
> being built for iOS but I think that's just a limitation of the 
> developer not using or having Mac devices.
>
> --Greg
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 8:57?PM Kahunapule Michael Johnson 
> <kahunapule at ebible.org> wrote:
>
>     I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that
>     probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone
>     wants to contribute to that effort, please let me know.
>
>
>     On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
>     > FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
>     >
>     > https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
>     >
>     > Best regards,
>     >
>     > David
>     >
>     > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>     >
>     > On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam
>     <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>     >
>     >> Dear all,
>     >>
>     >> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable
>     from the App Store!
>     >>
>     >> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>     >>
>     >> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the
>     software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>     >>
>     >> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed
>     only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>     >>
>     >> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that
>     next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if
>     it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
>     >>
>     >> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman
>     had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no
>     news of any progress since then.
>     >>
>     >> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone
>     and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>     >>
>     >> Best regards,
>     >>
>     >> David
>     >>
>     >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>     > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>     > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>     http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>     Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

-- 
Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez 
l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible 
<https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des 
commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... 
Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Tue Jan 14 06:46:37 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 11:46:37 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
Message-ID: <hn1roGT6P3XlNg0tdpIYzMNdCsVR8nYbT9AxYJn2hjrfXVOWnljjnV6EKiY7fUODoPOQ-BJysAhzg10r541ghhzi9nDGP-bM2yuuEeKsMRs=@protonmail.com>

FYI.

I emailed Nic Carter and he responded with a cc: to Michael.

In his second paragraph, he made these technical observations:

//Given the rapid development of Apple?s frameworks on iOS, it?s hard to keep an app ?up to date? and even compiling on iOS! I have looked a little at the situation and in the end I decided there was so much work required updating the ObjectiveC++ app that it would be a much better idea to simply port it over to Swift, rather than port it over to the new ObjC frameworks at this point. Some parts can be left as ObjC, but that?s pretty much just the libsword C++ wrappers, all the UI should be ported given it?s possible ObjC support could be dropped by Apple any time in the next 5 years?//

Best regards,

David

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

On Tuesday, January 14th, 2025 at 2:56 AM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson <kahunapule at eBible.org> wrote:

> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to contribute to that effort, please let me know.
> 
> 
> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
> 
> > FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
> > 
> > https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> > 
> > On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam dfhdfh at protonmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Dear all,
> > > 
> > > Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!
> > > 
> > > NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
> > > 
> > > cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
> > > 
> > > Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
> > > 
> > > cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
> > > 
> > > Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.
> > > 
> > > I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
> > > 
> > > Best regards,
> > > 
> > > David
> > > 
> > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> > > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

From scribe at crosswire.org  Tue Jan 14 07:47:12 2025
From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:47:12 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <hn1roGT6P3XlNg0tdpIYzMNdCsVR8nYbT9AxYJn2hjrfXVOWnljjnV6EKiY7fUODoPOQ-BJysAhzg10r541ghhzi9nDGP-bM2yuuEeKsMRs=@protonmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <hn1roGT6P3XlNg0tdpIYzMNdCsVR8nYbT9AxYJn2hjrfXVOWnljjnV6EKiY7fUODoPOQ-BJysAhzg10r541ghhzi9nDGP-bM2yuuEeKsMRs=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea439f14-488c-43e3-9124-51964e27c46c@crosswire.org>

Hey guys,

As Fr.? Cyrille mentions, Bishop is available on iOS.

Bishop builds Swift wrappers around the SWORD C++ engine and uses those 
for delivery of the cordova plugin for the SWORD library:

https://www.npmjs.com/package/cordova-plugin-crosswire-sword

This should already make available the full SWORD engine to anyone 
wishing to write an iOS app in JavaScript/TypeScript.

Bishop does this and compiles for both iOS and Android:

https://crosswire.org/applications/#bishop

It's not a bad starting point for continued development.? I use it each 
day for my daily reading and to show manuscript evidence to people when 
they doubt the historicity of Scripture.

The Android version is one or two releases ahead of the iOS version 
simply because I don't keep active a macOS virtual machine around to 
build.? Would be nice to have something like that available for CI/CD.

Troy


On 1/14/25 12:46 PM, David Haslam wrote:
> FYI.
>
> I emailed Nic Carter and he responded with a cc: to Michael.
>
> In his second paragraph, he made these technical observations:
>
> //Given the rapid development of Apple?s frameworks on iOS, it?s hard to keep an app ?up to date? and even compiling on iOS! I have looked a little at the situation and in the end I decided there was so much work required updating the ObjectiveC++ app that it would be a much better idea to simply port it over to Swift, rather than port it over to the new ObjC frameworks at this point. Some parts can be left as ObjC, but that?s pretty much just the libsword C++ wrappers, all the UI should be ported given it?s possible ObjC support could be dropped by Apple any time in the next 5 years?//
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>
> On Tuesday, January 14th, 2025 at 2:56 AM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson <kahunapule at eBible.org> wrote:
>
>> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to contribute to that effort, please let me know.
>>
>>
>> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
>>
>>> FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
>>>
>>> https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam dfhdfh at protonmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!
>>>>
>>>> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>>>>
>>>> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>>>>
>>>> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
>>>>
>>>> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

From cmahte at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 07:50:53 2025
From: cmahte at gmail.com (Michael H)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 06:50:53 -0600
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <ea439f14-488c-43e3-9124-51964e27c46c@crosswire.org>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <hn1roGT6P3XlNg0tdpIYzMNdCsVR8nYbT9AxYJn2hjrfXVOWnljjnV6EKiY7fUODoPOQ-BJysAhzg10r541ghhzi9nDGP-bM2yuuEeKsMRs=@protonmail.com>
 <ea439f14-488c-43e3-9124-51964e27c46c@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <CAJ9hia8RLNOtFsOG2A+_xX982Sr5cyU5=SdWjKjcsYMHJPnRWw@mail.gmail.com>

STEPBible is also on IOS. AFAIK it uses sword internally. and is open
source.

On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 6:47?AM Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org>
wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> As Fr.  Cyrille mentions, Bishop is available on iOS.
>
> Bishop builds Swift wrappers around the SWORD C++ engine and uses those
> for delivery of the cordova plugin for the SWORD library:
>
> https://www.npmjs.com/package/cordova-plugin-crosswire-sword
>
> This should already make available the full SWORD engine to anyone
> wishing to write an iOS app in JavaScript/TypeScript.
>
> Bishop does this and compiles for both iOS and Android:
>
> https://crosswire.org/applications/#bishop
>
> It's not a bad starting point for continued development.  I use it each
> day for my daily reading and to show manuscript evidence to people when
> they doubt the historicity of Scripture.
>
> The Android version is one or two releases ahead of the iOS version
> simply because I don't keep active a macOS virtual machine around to
> build.  Would be nice to have something like that available for CI/CD.
>
> Troy
>
>
> On 1/14/25 12:46 PM, David Haslam wrote:
> > FYI.
> >
> > I emailed Nic Carter and he responded with a cc: to Michael.
> >
> > In his second paragraph, he made these technical observations:
> >
> > //Given the rapid development of Apple?s frameworks on iOS, it?s hard to
> keep an app ?up to date? and even compiling on iOS! I have looked a little
> at the situation and in the end I decided there was so much work required
> updating the ObjectiveC++ app that it would be a much better idea to simply
> port it over to Swift, rather than port it over to the new ObjC frameworks
> at this point. Some parts can be left as ObjC, but that?s pretty much just
> the libsword C++ wrappers, all the UI should be ported given it?s possible
> ObjC support could be dropped by Apple any time in the next 5 years?//
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > David
> >
> > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> >
> > On Tuesday, January 14th, 2025 at 2:56 AM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson
> <kahunapule at eBible.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that
> probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to
> contribute to that effort, please let me know.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
> >>
> >>> FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
> >>>
> >>> https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam
> dfhdfh at protonmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Dear all,
> >>>>
> >>>> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from
> the App Store!
> >>>>
> >>>> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
> >>>>
> >>>> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the
> software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
> >>>>
> >>>> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only
> for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
> >>>>
> >>>> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next
> month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not
> updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had
> volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any
> progress since then.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and
> iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> >>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> >> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> > _______________________________________________
> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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From refdoc at gmx.net  Tue Jan 14 10:12:03 2025
From: refdoc at gmx.net (refdoc at gmx.net)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 15:12:03 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <ea439f14-488c-43e3-9124-51964e27c46c@crosswire.org>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <hn1roGT6P3XlNg0tdpIYzMNdCsVR8nYbT9AxYJn2hjrfXVOWnljjnV6EKiY7fUODoPOQ-BJysAhzg10r541ghhzi9nDGP-bM2yuuEeKsMRs=@protonmail.com>,
 <ea439f14-488c-43e3-9124-51964e27c46c@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <2F344CF5-167B-4746-831B-EC837D7D3C06@hxcore.ol>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Tue Jan 14 10:29:29 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 15:29:29 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Bishop for iPadOS - links in the Daily Devotional
 module MCheyne ?
Message-ID: <kzEY7EzPBp1TWtGTGIuDRXpCZoi9WLP9U0i0gOXjMs5oEXLcmTr5f6PkKD0GZ5EUg7w2DMFfJul4MJjgOIljc_e_CE-E2vBFRjbvTClvHpg=@protonmail.com>

Today I tried out Bishop in my iPad Mini 4, following the suggestion that I try Bishop in case we lose PocketSword forever.

Aside: The KJV module was already installed, but it needed to be updated.

Afterwards, I installed the Daily Devotional module MCheyne from the Xiphos repo.

M'Cheyne's Bible Reading Calendar

After selecting MCheyne, and seeing the four readings for Today, I discovered that clicking any of the links took me to Revelation 1:1 rather than the actual passage for today!

Family Reading: Genesis 15
Family Reading: Matthew 14
Secret Reading: Nehemiah 4
Secret Reading: Acts 14

The links in mcheyne.dat are very simple! e.g.  
<scripRef>Genesis 15</scripRef>

i.e. They don't use OSIS XML constructs!

cf. These MCheyne module links always work fine in PocketSword !
The only minor issue is when the passage is a [chapter] range.
In that case, the passage selector ends up indicating the last chapter as having been selected, even though the screen displays the first chapter in the range.

NB. Within Bishop, links in the Daily devotional module SME work properly.

btw. Clicking such a link from MCheyne in Xiphos for Windows gives an error too!
 BUG! Xiphos is about to crash due to a STRDUP error.
However, there's no means to select the error popup text in Xiphos.
I have no recollection of testing this Daily Devotional module in Xiphos before today. It's conceivable that the issue has always been there. I mention this merely for comparison now that I'm reporting what happens in Bishop.

Can Bishop be improved such that these simple <scripRef>...</scripRef> links will work correctly?

Best regards,

David

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

From maxmmur at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 11:44:55 2025
From: maxmmur at gmail.com (Maxwell Murunga)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 19:44:55 +0300
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
Message-ID: <CAMYRk0H4-GaNF-=intdOBnMPh=1mufMmTjM9id6VSjt3gM-0kA@mail.gmail.com>

As a long-time PocketSword user, I am willing to contribute to this effort.

I am fairly familiar with the PocketSword source code, having built it
several times about 5 years ago. Even at the time, it was already in the
realm of "legacy"; I could tell that it desperately needed to be ported
over to Swift.

Back then, Swift was not directly interoperable with C++. You had to use
Objective-C bridging headers. However, that changed last year or so and now
Swift is directly interoperable with C++.

The best way forward, in my opinion, seems to be porting PocketSword from
Objective C++ to Swift. Tools like Github Copilot or Swiftify could make
this a breeze.

On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 5:57?AM Kahunapule Michael Johnson <
kahunapule at ebible.org> wrote:

> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that
> probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to
> contribute to that effort, please let me know.
>
>
> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
> > FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
> >
> > https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > David
> >
> > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> >
> > On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam <
> dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the
> App Store!
> >>
> >> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
> >>
> >> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software
> after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
> >>
> >> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for
> iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
> >>
> >> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month
> Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to
> their latest data privacy standards?"
> >>
> >> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had
> volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any
> progress since then.
> >>
> >> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad
> devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> > _______________________________________________
> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Tue Jan 14 12:25:21 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 17:25:21 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <CAMYRk0H4-GaNF-=intdOBnMPh=1mufMmTjM9id6VSjt3gM-0kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <CAMYRk0H4-GaNF-=intdOBnMPh=1mufMmTjM9id6VSjt3gM-0kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5jIUOrZu_2c5DyzAAd8To7qGMFNb-mqYyNNOunse7XGBpI_qhkaH2BzSMuc4ssWzRkghgvZD1jmwhf2cnvZ1jArScYkHDAryCbTSn36p47A=@protonmail.com>

It would be nice if the sender of the previous reply might introduce himself/herself to the team.

Has anyone used the GitHub facility to import the PocketSword repository from Atlassian BitBucket?

Nic's source code is at https://bitbucket.org/niccarter/pocketsword

Best regards,

David

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.

On Tuesday, January 14th, 2025 at 4:44 PM, Maxwell Murunga <maxmmur at gmail.com> wrote:

> As a long-time PocketSword user, I am willing to contribute to this effort.
>
> I am fairly familiar with the PocketSword source code, having built it several times about 5 years ago. Even at the time, it was already in the realm of "legacy"; I could tell that it desperately needed to be ported over to Swift.
>
> Back then, Swift was not directly interoperable with C++. You had to use Objective-C bridging headers. However, that changed last year or so and now Swift is directly interoperable with C++.
>
> The best way forward, in my opinion, seems to be porting PocketSword from Objective C++ to Swift. Tools like Github Copilot or Swiftify could make this a breeze.
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 5:57?AM Kahunapule Michael Johnson <kahunapule at ebible.org> wrote:
>
>> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to contribute to that effort, please let me know.
>>
>> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
>>> FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
>>>
>>> https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App Store!
>>>>
>>>> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>>>>
>>>> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>>>>
>>>> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
>>>>
>>>> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any progress since then.
>>>>
>>>> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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From refdoc at gmx.net  Tue Jan 14 13:09:39 2025
From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:09:39 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Bishop for iPadOS - links in the Daily Devotional
 module MCheyne ?
In-Reply-To: <kzEY7EzPBp1TWtGTGIuDRXpCZoi9WLP9U0i0gOXjMs5oEXLcmTr5f6PkKD0GZ5EUg7w2DMFfJul4MJjgOIljc_e_CE-E2vBFRjbvTClvHpg=@protonmail.com>
References: <kzEY7EzPBp1TWtGTGIuDRXpCZoi9WLP9U0i0gOXjMs5oEXLcmTr5f6PkKD0GZ5EUg7w2DMFfJul4MJjgOIljc_e_CE-E2vBFRjbvTClvHpg=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <B4D52D96-4691-D14A-9AFB-E8B47632C0C1@hxcore.ol>

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From contact at tklein.info  Tue Jan 14 15:00:18 2025
From: contact at tklein.info (Tobias Klein)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:00:18 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <CAHxvOVLOCBh=FOahFVkJvYGWpuqTppHEDCnc7c4BcOxQ5et-HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <CAHxvOVLOCBh=FOahFVkJvYGWpuqTppHEDCnc7c4BcOxQ5et-HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19466671050.2855.8615574ea28fbd6f84c146d5b0849810@tklein.info>

Thanks for bringing that up, Greg.

The only reason why Ezra Bible App is not available on iOS is my fear of 
the regular additional release / testing overhead. I even have iOS devices 
in the household.

In general, it should be possible to build the app for iOS based on the 
frameworks/ technology I'm using.

If someone is willing to take on the regular testing and release effort, 
I'd be glad to support the learning curve and any problem solving needed to 
get the initial build and integration job done.

The other thing that may be required is the Apple developer license to 
support notarization. I have that to generate the macOS build, but it may 
be needed for every additional developer who wants to independently build a 
release binary.

Best regards,
Tobias

Am 14. Januar 2025 04:23:48 schrieb Greg Hellings <greg.hellings at gmail.com>:
> Is there a reason, if a rewrite is in the works, not to collaborate along 
> with another effort that is cross-platform capable? There are several good 
> toolkits already out there that can produce very serviceable mobile apps. 
> Ezra is built, I believe, on Apache's Cordova and already works very well 
> across a variety of screen sizes. I've used it on desktop and on my phone. 
> And it even adapts well between my phone in narrow mode and in foldable 
> mode (I have a Pixel 9 Pro Fold), properly using the extra screen real 
> estate that it gains in open mode.
>
> Thus, an iOS build of it could probably be produced as well as an iPadOS 
> version that adapts well. I don't think a version is currently being built 
> for iOS but I think that's just a limitation of the developer not using or 
> having Mac devices.
>
> --Greg
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 8:57?PM Kahunapule Michael Johnson 
> <kahunapule at ebible.org> wrote:
> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that probably 
> the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to 
> contribute to that effort, please let me know.
>
>
> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
>> FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
>>
>> https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam 
>> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the App 
>>> Store!
>>>
>>> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>>>
>>> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the software 
>>> after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>>>
>>> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only for iOS 
>>> 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>>>
>>> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next month 
>>> Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not updated to 
>>> their latest data privacy standards?"
>>>
>>> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had 
>>> volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any 
>>> progress since then.
>>>
>>> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and iPad 
>>> devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Tue Jan 14 16:14:07 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:14:07 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Bishop for iPadOS - links in the Daily Devotional
 module MCheyne ?
In-Reply-To: <B4D52D96-4691-D14A-9AFB-E8B47632C0C1@hxcore.ol>
References: <kzEY7EzPBp1TWtGTGIuDRXpCZoi9WLP9U0i0gOXjMs5oEXLcmTr5f6PkKD0GZ5EUg7w2DMFfJul4MJjgOIljc_e_CE-E2vBFRjbvTClvHpg=@protonmail.com>
 <B4D52D96-4691-D14A-9AFB-E8B47632C0C1@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <FgDV7ovREvNznw2AZb6TEsmwtIzvb2P0ylLqLGjdWFlJtqJQDZkWvMerj_LV6retSIUlrfNR43hrTIaXHjS2zWjjR2CCb8wQWR9WDJUbUgc=@protonmail.com>

Thanks Peter,

I think that would require someone to develop a bespoke script to convert mcheyne.dat to OSIS XML, not only to properly structure it as XML, but also to accurately convert each ThML scripRef element to OSIS, taking account of the special cases where the reference is for a range (whether more than one whole chapter, or even including part of a chapter).

btw. There are several other early DD modules which are still based on ThML scripRef elements. Some of these are found in the CrossWire repository.
It's not only the Xiphos repository which contains modules that are quite old.

Best regards,

David

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.

On Tuesday, January 14th, 2025 at 6:09 PM, Peter von Kaehne <refdoc at gmx.net> wrote:

> There is a long-standing misunderstood THML encoding of such references in some old modules, including this one. Today I think thanks to the phasing out of ThML in CrossWire repos itself the issue is concentrated on Xiphos. Basically the behaviour you describe as working is undefined and not intentional. The module should get updated.
>
> Sent from [Outlook for iOS](https://aka.ms/o0ukef)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> on behalf of David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 3:29 pm
> To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Subject: [sword-devel] Bishop for iPadOS - links in the Daily Devotional module MCheyne ?
>
> Today I tried out Bishop in my iPad Mini 4, following the suggestion that I try Bishop in case we lose PocketSword forever.
>
> Aside: The KJV module was already installed, but it needed to be updated.
>
> Afterwards, I installed the Daily Devotional module MCheyne from the Xiphos repo.
>
> M'Cheyne's Bible Reading Calendar
>
> After selecting MCheyne, and seeing the four readings for Today, I discovered that clicking any of the links took me to Revelation 1:1 rather than the actual passage for today!
>
> Family Reading: Genesis 15
> Family Reading: Matthew 14
> Secret Reading: Nehemiah 4
> Secret Reading: Acts 14
>
> The links in mcheyne.dat are very simple! e.g.
> <scripRef>Genesis 15</scripRef>
>
> i.e. They don't use OSIS XML constructs!
>
> cf. These MCheyne module links always work fine in PocketSword !
> The only minor issue is when the passage is a [chapter] range.
> In that case, the passage selector ends up indicating the last chapter as having been selected, even though the screen displays the first chapter in the range.
>
> NB. Within Bishop, links in the Daily devotional module SME work properly.
>
> btw. Clicking such a link from MCheyne in Xiphos for Windows gives an error too!
> BUG! Xiphos is about to crash due to a STRDUP error.
> However, there's no means to select the error popup text in Xiphos.
> I have no recollection of testing this Daily Devotional module in Xiphos before today. It's conceivable that the issue has always been there. I mention this merely for comparison now that I'm reporting what happens in Bishop.
>
> Can Bishop be improved such that these simple <scripRef>...</scripRef> links will work correctly?
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
> Sent from [Outlook for iOS](https://aka.ms/o0ukef)
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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From adyeths at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 21:32:47 2025
From: adyeths at gmail.com (Ryan)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 02:32:47 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <ea439f14-488c-43e3-9124-51964e27c46c@crosswire.org>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <hn1roGT6P3XlNg0tdpIYzMNdCsVR8nYbT9AxYJn2hjrfXVOWnljjnV6EKiY7fUODoPOQ-BJysAhzg10r541ghhzi9nDGP-bM2yuuEeKsMRs=@protonmail.com>
 <ea439f14-488c-43e3-9124-51964e27c46c@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <7DF57C54-6030-4D94-B3B6-FC519EAD3EDA@gmail.com>

Am I the only android user who can't find Bishop on Google Play anymore?





>Bishop does this and compiles for both iOS and Android:
>
>https://crosswire.org/applications/#bishop
>

From maxmmur at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 22:57:18 2025
From: maxmmur at gmail.com (Maxwell Murunga)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 06:57:18 +0300
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <5jIUOrZu_2c5DyzAAd8To7qGMFNb-mqYyNNOunse7XGBpI_qhkaH2BzSMuc4ssWzRkghgvZD1jmwhf2cnvZ1jArScYkHDAryCbTSn36p47A=@protonmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <CAMYRk0H4-GaNF-=intdOBnMPh=1mufMmTjM9id6VSjt3gM-0kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5jIUOrZu_2c5DyzAAd8To7qGMFNb-mqYyNNOunse7XGBpI_qhkaH2BzSMuc4ssWzRkghgvZD1jmwhf2cnvZ1jArScYkHDAryCbTSn36p47A=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMYRk0GEyb6WdVa6Oe42dm+sZCmkKZ+V79O0yRfr9WnZ7JyYMA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks David, please pardon that,
I sent the message while engaged elsewhere, and had not thought it
necessary to introduce myself since I was last active here in 2020. I also
took it for granted that everyone could see my name since Gmail does that
on my end.
My name is Mr. Maxwell Murunga. I do native iOS development, native Android
development, and fullstack Web development. On the SWORD side of things, I
am mostly interested in iOS, and can contribute to any iOS related issues.
Blessings,
Maxwell.

On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 8:42?PM David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:

> It would be nice if the sender of the previous reply might introduce
> himself/herself to the team.
>
> Has anyone used the GitHub facility to import the PocketSword repository
> from Atlassian BitBucket?
>
> Nic's source code is at  https://bitbucket.org/niccarter/pocketsword
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>
> On Tuesday, January 14th, 2025 at 4:44 PM, Maxwell Murunga <
> maxmmur at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As a long-time PocketSword user, I am willing to contribute to this effort.
> I am fairly familiar with the PocketSword source code, having built it
> several times about 5 years ago. Even at the time, it was already in the
> realm of "legacy"; I could tell that it desperately needed to be ported
> over to Swift.
>
> Back then, Swift was not directly interoperable with C++. You had to use
> Objective-C bridging headers. However, that changed last year or so and now
> Swift is directly interoperable with C++.
>
> The best way forward, in my opinion, seems to be porting PocketSword from
> Objective C++ to Swift. Tools like Github Copilot or Swiftify could make
> this a breeze.
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 5:57?AM Kahunapule Michael Johnson <
> kahunapule at ebible.org> wrote:
>
>> I discussed this with a volunteer developer, today. We agreed that
>> probably the best way forward was a rewrite/replacement. If anyone wants to
>> contribute to that effort, please let me know.
>>
>>
>> On 1/13/25 00:26, David Haslam wrote:
>> > FYI: I've just noted the discovery in the developers' wiki
>> >
>> > https://wiki.crosswire.org/Frontends:PocketSword
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>> >
>> > On Sunday, January 12th, 2025 at 10:12 PM, David Haslam <
>> dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> Today I discovered that PocketSword is no longer downloadable from the
>> App Store!
>> >>
>> >> NB. I've already alerted Michael Johnson via Messenger.
>> >>
>> >> cf. The original developer (Nic Carter) stopped developing the
>> software after he moved to teach in New Zealand several years ago.
>> >>
>> >> Presumably, Apple has ruled that those apps that were designed only
>> for iOS 10 or earlier should be removed from the store.
>> >>
>> >> cf. Back in late 2020, I ask them "Is there a high risk that next
>> month Apple may disqualify PocketSword from the App Store if it?s not
>> updated to their latest data privacy standards?"
>> >>
>> >> Michael informed us in May 2022 that his friend Craig Ahlman had
>> volunteered to work on PocketSword. Even so, there's been no news of any
>> progress since then.
>> >>
>> >> I would be very sad if this excellent front-end app for iPhone and
>> iPad devices could not be brought back to see the light of day.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >> David
>> >>
>> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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From scribe at crosswire.org  Wed Jan 15 07:45:18 2025
From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:45:18 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword
In-Reply-To: <7DF57C54-6030-4D94-B3B6-FC519EAD3EDA@gmail.com>
References: <vItkhElQ4SYKEYQq9DsWqMHhDfxADxHRuXWbhQHvXjWxEWyIv-_5iKCZoFfDdxlvcPXXJH9LVmXRgLg4NHIhaFaSiE1KkEc0wPH8rlxX3iQ=@protonmail.com>
 <ktl9IKm8WbqlSsSx7bY7pPnDS_3k6wWDZD3kRb3GEYbq3wSDfqNM_2ydzi3HyyyAnLEXLZyqy8TbWgMW4IzTDrc3wKHJhWyuyEITS-Tf0jk=@protonmail.com>
 <0b77ae97-dcde-4510-8877-1c11e6080aa1@eBible.org>
 <hn1roGT6P3XlNg0tdpIYzMNdCsVR8nYbT9AxYJn2hjrfXVOWnljjnV6EKiY7fUODoPOQ-BJysAhzg10r541ghhzi9nDGP-bM2yuuEeKsMRs=@protonmail.com>
 <ea439f14-488c-43e3-9124-51964e27c46c@crosswire.org>
 <7DF57C54-6030-4D94-B3B6-FC519EAD3EDA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <296ea5c0-90e2-421b-95e0-383c53a3b372@crosswire.org>

Hi Ryan,

No, you are not the only one.? Marjan pointed this out to me a couple 
days ago when I first posted in this thread.? Looking into it, Google 
had removed Bishop 2 weeks ago because we had not properly identified 
CrossWire Bible Society as an organization with our D-U-N-S number and 
government issued trade name license. I started that process then and we 
have now been confirmed and our apps are back in the store:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.crosswire.bishop


On 1/15/25 3:32 AM, Ryan wrote:
> Am I the only android user who can't find Bishop on Google Play anymore?
>
>
>
>
>
>> Bishop does this and compiles for both iOS and Android:
>>
>> https://crosswire.org/applications/#bishop
>>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

From domcox at crosswire.org  Fri Jan 17 13:12:29 2025
From: domcox at crosswire.org (domcox at crosswire.org)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:12:29 -0500
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: FreCrampon
Message-ID: <20250117181229.5362411F83E@mail.crosswire.org>

Dear All,

This is to announce that we have just now uploaded FreCrampon
in the CrossWire (main) repository.

## Language:
French

## Description:
La Bible Augustin Crampon 1923

## Category:
Biblical Text

## Version:
This is an update. Version: 3.1

## What's new:
Addition of notes, crossreferences, titles.

Many thanks to Cyrille_LAfricain for the hard work.

We wish you enjoyable reading,
The Module Team

P.S.: This email is sent automatically on upload of a new/updated module


From kovzol at gmail.com  Thu Jan 23 10:57:54 2025
From: kovzol at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?S292w6FjcyBab2x0w6Fu?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:57:54 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Team,
I restart this thread to ask a related question.
For more than 2 years I have been using LXX version 2.5 in my Sword based
application to have the old text available for research. But now I would
like to try the new version 3.0 as well, to be available at the same time.
Question: Would it be possible to make LXX version 2.5 available under a
different module name (e.g. LXX25) on Crosswire's module server, to allow
using both without any difficulty? Maybe this would be beneficial for other
users than me. If not, I can of course do some hacking in my application
and rename LXX version 2.5 to LXX25 internally, and then download 3.0 as
the new official LXX.
Thanks and blessings, Zoltan


Kov?cs Zolt?n <kovzol at gmail.com> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022. szept. 1., Cs,
18:46):

> Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022. szept. 1.,
> Cs, 12:27):
>
>>
>>
>> Le 01/09/2022 ? 12:19, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit :
>>
>> Plus:
>> It seems some verse numberings are different.
>> E.g., version 2.5: Psalms 18:47 = version 3.0: Psalms 17:48
>> For me, such changes break several parts of the database.
>> Is there a list of such modifications available?
>> Thanks, Zoltan
>>
>>
>> The new module use the new versification, LXX. You can see the new v11n
>> in the sword's sources.
>>
>
> Thanks for the information! I understand that 2.5 uses KJV (as default),
> so I have all entries in KJV v11n in my database.
> Is there a simple way to convert a KJV verse notation into LXX v11n? I
> learned that using VerseKey is a possible way,
> but I just want to keep my working method via
> SWModule *module = (SWMgr) library.getModule("LXX")
> and force using KJV v11n also if 3.0 is used.
> Thanks for advising me further.
> Best, Zoltan
>


-- 

*Dr. Zolt?n** Kov?cs, MSc*

Institut Ausbildung




*Private P?dagogische Hochschule der Di?zese Linz*
*Private University of Education, Diocese Linz**Salesianumweg 3, 4020 Linz*
*Mail: zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at <zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at>*

*Web: www.ph-linz.at <http://www.ph-linz.at/>*

*RGate: **https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3
<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3>*


*Aktuelle Ver?ffentlichungen:*


   - Z. K. ?A note on Erd?s's mysterious remark?. arXiv:2412.05190v2
   <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386555316_A_note_on_Erdos%27s_mysterious_remark>
   (9 December, 2024).
   - Z. K. and Reinhard Oldenburg. ?A Technological Approach to Teaching
   Inequalities, Propositional and Predicate Logic?. In: 9th International
   Workshop on Satisfiability Checking and Symbolic Computation, July 2,
   2024, Nancy, France, Collocated with IJCAR 2024. Ed. by Chris Brown,
   Daniela Kaufmann, Cl?udia Nalon, Alexander Steen, and Martin Suda. 3717
   vols. July 2, 2024, pp. 122?131. eprint:
   http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-3717/paper7.pdf.
   - Z. K., Tom?s Recio and M. Pilar V?lez. ?On automated completion of
   geometry statements and proofs with GeoGebra Discovery
   <https://rdcu.be/d411I>?. Annals of Mathematics and Artificial
   Intelligence (December 27, 2024).
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From fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be  Thu Jan 23 12:14:14 2025
From: fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be (Fr Cyrille)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 18:14:14 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>

It seems to me that there is a tool or file that allows you to have the 
equivalent verses of all Bibles with the kjv when displayed in parallel. 
(someone can help me?).
Personally, I'm not too keen on creating a module that uses kjv 
versification for the LXX. Because it doesn't correspond to any paper 
version.


Le 23/01/2025 ? 16:57, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit?:
> Dear Team,
> I restart this thread to ask a related question.
> For more than 2 years I have been using LXX version 2.5 in my Sword 
> based application to have the old text available for research. But now 
> I would like to try the new version 3.0 as well, to be available at 
> the same time.
> Question: Would it be possible to make LXX version 2.5 available under 
> a different module name (e.g. LXX25) on Crosswire's module server, to 
> allow using both without any difficulty? Maybe this would be 
> beneficial for other users than me. If not, I can of course do some 
> hacking in my application and rename LXX version 2.5 to LXX25 
> internally, and then download 3.0 as the new official LXX.
> Thanks and blessings, Zoltan
>
>
> Kov?cs Zolt?n <kovzol at gmail.com> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022. szept. 1., 
> Cs, 18:46):
>
>     Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022.
>     szept. 1., Cs, 12:27):
>
>
>
>         Le 01/09/2022 ? 12:19, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit?:
>>         Plus:
>>         It seems some verse numberings are different.
>>         E.g., version 2.5: Psalms 18:47 = version 3.0: Psalms 17:48
>>         For me, such changes break several parts of the database.
>>         Is there a list of such modifications available?
>>         Thanks, Zoltan
>
>         The new module use the new versification, LXX. You can see the
>         new v11n in the sword's sources.
>
>     Thanks for the information! I understand that 2.5 uses KJV (as
>     default), so I have all entries in KJV v11n in my database.
>     Is there a simple way to convert a KJV verse notation into LXX
>     v11n? I learned that using VerseKey is a possible way,
>     but I just want to keep my working method via
>     SWModule *module = (SWMgr) library.getModule("LXX")
>     and force using KJV v11n also if 3.0 is used.
>     Thanks for advising me further.
>     Best, Zoltan
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> *Dr. Zolt?n**?Kov?cs, MSc*
>
> Institut Ausbildung
>
> /Private P?dagogische Hochschule der Di?zese Linz
> //Private University of Education, Diocese Linz
> //Salesianumweg 3, 4020 Linz//
> //Mail: zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at/
>
> /Web: www.ph-linz.at <http://www.ph-linz.at/>/
>
> /RGate: //https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3 
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3>/
>
> *
> Aktuelle Ver?ffentlichungen:*
>
>   * Z. K. ?A note on Erd?s's mysterious remark?. arXiv:2412.05190v2
>     <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386555316_A_note_on_Erdos%27s_mysterious_remark>
>     (9 December, 2024).
>   * Z. K. and Reinhard Oldenburg. ?A Technological Approach to
>     Teaching Inequalities, Propositional and Predicate Logic?. In: 9th
>     International Workshop on Satisfiability Checking and Symbolic
>     Computation, July 2, 2024, Nancy, France, Collocated with IJCAR
>     2024. Ed. by Chris Brown, Daniela Kaufmann, Cl?udia Nalon,
>     Alexander Steen, and Martin Suda. 3717 vols. July 2, 2024, pp.
>     122?131. eprint: http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-3717/paper7.pdf.
>   * Z. K., Tom?s Recio and M. Pilar V?lez. ?On automated completion of
>     geometry statements and proofs with GeoGebra Discovery
>     <https://rdcu.be/d411I>?.?Annals of Mathematics and Artificial
>     Intelligence?(December 27, 2024).
>
>

-- 
Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez 
l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible 
<https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des 
commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... 
Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
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From unas.zole+avie at gmail.com  Thu Jan 23 13:07:06 2025
From: unas.zole+avie at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Arnaud_Vi=C3=A9?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 19:07:06 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
Message-ID: <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>

Cyrille, I think what you are talking about are the versification mappings.

I'm familiar only with the JSword implementation, which is there :
https://github.com/AndBible/jsword/blob/develop/src/main/java/org/crosswire/jsword/versification/VersificationsMapper.java
It relies on mapping files describing how verses map from one versification
to KJV (or to KJVA, since my contribution on the andbible fork), such as
this one :
https://github.com/AndBible/jsword/blob/develop/src/main/resources/org/crosswire/jsword/versification/Catholic2.properties
Any application can instantiate the VersificationsMapper to convert
references from any versification system to any other (using KJVA as pivot).
AndBible does, for example - and therefore can today seamlessly align two
screens displaying two bibles using completely different versifications.

This feature exists as well in the C++ libsword (I see some related code in
versificationmgr.cpp ), though I can't help much on that part. Someone else
may help explain how the C++ API for this works.


So I fully agree with Cyrille : I don't think preserving bibles in a
"wrong" versification is a good idea, given that we have a powerful
versification mapping feature that negates this need.
The better way to go is to make sure this versification mapping feature is
easy to implement and well documented, for applications to use it with
minimal effort.

(As a side note, I proposed early last year a set of principles to design a
modular versification system, precisely to improve the accuracy of these
versification mappings while reducing the burden of maintaining dozens of
versifications, which is still waiting for feedback.
cf. http://crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2024-February/049957.html )

Cheers,

Arnaud

Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 18:14, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a
?crit :

> It seems to me that there is a tool or file that allows you to have the
> equivalent verses of all Bibles with the kjv when displayed in parallel.
> (someone can help me?).
> Personally, I'm not too keen on creating a module that uses kjv
> versification for the LXX. Because it doesn't correspond to any paper
> version.
>
>
> Le 23/01/2025 ? 16:57, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit :
>
> Dear Team,
> I restart this thread to ask a related question.
> For more than 2 years I have been using LXX version 2.5 in my Sword based
> application to have the old text available for research. But now I would
> like to try the new version 3.0 as well, to be available at the same time.
> Question: Would it be possible to make LXX version 2.5 available under a
> different module name (e.g. LXX25) on Crosswire's module server, to allow
> using both without any difficulty? Maybe this would be beneficial for other
> users than me. If not, I can of course do some hacking in my application
> and rename LXX version 2.5 to LXX25 internally, and then download 3.0 as
> the new official LXX.
> Thanks and blessings, Zoltan
>
>
> Kov?cs Zolt?n <kovzol at gmail.com> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022. szept. 1., Cs,
> 18:46):
>
>> Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022. szept. 1.,
>> Cs, 12:27):
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 01/09/2022 ? 12:19, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit :
>>>
>>> Plus:
>>> It seems some verse numberings are different.
>>> E.g., version 2.5: Psalms 18:47 = version 3.0: Psalms 17:48
>>> For me, such changes break several parts of the database.
>>> Is there a list of such modifications available?
>>> Thanks, Zoltan
>>>
>>>
>>> The new module use the new versification, LXX. You can see the new v11n
>>> in the sword's sources.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the information! I understand that 2.5 uses KJV (as default),
>> so I have all entries in KJV v11n in my database.
>> Is there a simple way to convert a KJV verse notation into LXX v11n? I
>> learned that using VerseKey is a possible way,
>> but I just want to keep my working method via
>> SWModule *module = (SWMgr) library.getModule("LXX")
>> and force using KJV v11n also if 3.0 is used.
>> Thanks for advising me further.
>> Best, Zoltan
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Dr. Zolt?n** Kov?cs, MSc*
>
> Institut Ausbildung
>
>
>
>
> *Private P?dagogische Hochschule der Di?zese Linz *
> *Private University of Education, Diocese Linz **Salesianumweg 3, 4020
> Linz*
> *Mail: zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at <zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at>*
>
> *Web: www.ph-linz.at <http://www.ph-linz.at/>*
>
> *RGate: **https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3>*
>
>
> * Aktuelle Ver?ffentlichungen:*
>
>    - Z. K. ?A note on Erd?s's mysterious remark?. arXiv:2412.05190v2
>    <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386555316_A_note_on_Erdos%27s_mysterious_remark>
>    (9 December, 2024).
>    - Z. K. and Reinhard Oldenburg. ?A Technological Approach to Teaching
>    Inequalities, Propositional and Predicate Logic?. In: 9th
>    International Workshop on Satisfiability Checking and Symbolic
>    Computation, July 2, 2024, Nancy, France, Collocated with IJCAR 2024.
>    Ed. by Chris Brown, Daniela Kaufmann, Cl?udia Nalon, Alexander Steen, and Martin
>    Suda. 3717 vols. July 2, 2024, pp. 122?131. eprint:
>    http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-3717/paper7.pdf.
>    - Z. K., Tom?s Recio and M. Pilar V?lez. ?On automated completion of
>    geometry statements and proofs with GeoGebra Discovery
>    <https://rdcu.be/d411I>?. Annals of Mathematics and Artificial
>    Intelligence (December 27, 2024).
>
>
>
> --
> Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez
> l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible
> <https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des
> commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... Me
> contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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From kovzol at gmail.com  Thu Jan 23 13:16:55 2025
From: kovzol at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?S292w6FjcyBab2x0w6Fu?=)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 19:16:55 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CA+kNJPgqz2=5COc1nqw3G-7J+4O5LB50VV-_V_=CEqFkZyMXgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPgqz2=5COc1nqw3G-7J+4O5LB50VV-_V_=CEqFkZyMXgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACQaL-KcV6c_s-VezQrZBPgw0zsk9E1024FLmbTVRYLKZRoQKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, okay, does it mean that the module LXX 3.0 has just versification
differences (or more or less only those) compared to version 2.5?

Best, Zoltan

Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2025. jan. 23.,
Cs, 18:42):

> Cyrille, I think what you are talking about are the versification mappings.
>
> I'm familiar only with the JSword implementation, which is there : https://github.com/AndBible/jsword/blob/develop/src/main/java/org/crosswire/jsword/versification/VersificationsMapper.java
>
> It relies on mapping files describing how verses map from one
> versification to KJV (or to KJVA, since my contribution on the andbible
> fork), such as this one :
> https://github.com/AndBible/jsword/blob/develop/src/main/resources/org/crosswire/jsword/versification/Catholic2.properties
> Any application can instantiate the VersificationsMapper to convert
> references from any versification system to any other (using KJVA as pivot).
> AndBible does, for example - and therefore can today seamlessly align two
> screens displaying two bibles using completely different versifications.
>
> This feature exists as well in the C++ libsword (I see some related code
> in versificationmgr.cpp ), though I can't help on that part.
>
> So I fully agree with Cyrille : I don't think preserving bibles in a
> "wrong" versification is a good idea, given that we have a powerful
> versification mapping feature that negates this need.
> The better way to go is to make sure this versification mapping feature is
> easy to implement and well documented, for applications to use it with
> minimal effort.
>
> (As a side note, I proposed early last year a set of principles to design
> a modular versification system, precisely to improve the accuracy of these
> versification mappings while reducing the burden of maintaining dozens of
> versifications, which is still waiting for feedback.
> cf. http://crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2024-February/049957.html )
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arnaud
>
>
> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 18:14, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a
> ?crit :
>
>> It seems to me that there is a tool or file that allows you to have the
>> equivalent verses of all Bibles with the kjv when displayed in parallel.
>> (someone can help me?).
>> Personally, I'm not too keen on creating a module that uses kjv
>> versification for the LXX. Because it doesn't correspond to any paper
>> version.
>>
>>
>> Le 23/01/2025 ? 16:57, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit :
>>
>> Dear Team,
>> I restart this thread to ask a related question.
>> For more than 2 years I have been using LXX version 2.5 in my Sword based
>> application to have the old text available for research. But now I would
>> like to try the new version 3.0 as well, to be available at the same time.
>> Question: Would it be possible to make LXX version 2.5 available under a
>> different module name (e.g. LXX25) on Crosswire's module server, to allow
>> using both without any difficulty? Maybe this would be beneficial for other
>> users than me. If not, I can of course do some hacking in my application
>> and rename LXX version 2.5 to LXX25 internally, and then download 3.0 as
>> the new official LXX.
>> Thanks and blessings, Zoltan
>>
>>
>> Kov?cs Zolt?n <kovzol at gmail.com> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022. szept. 1., Cs,
>> 18:46):
>>
>>> Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022. szept.
>>> 1., Cs, 12:27):
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 01/09/2022 ? 12:19, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit :
>>>>
>>>> Plus:
>>>> It seems some verse numberings are different.
>>>> E.g., version 2.5: Psalms 18:47 = version 3.0: Psalms 17:48
>>>> For me, such changes break several parts of the database.
>>>> Is there a list of such modifications available?
>>>> Thanks, Zoltan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The new module use the new versification, LXX. You can see the new v11n
>>>> in the sword's sources.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the information! I understand that 2.5 uses KJV (as default),
>>> so I have all entries in KJV v11n in my database.
>>> Is there a simple way to convert a KJV verse notation into LXX v11n? I
>>> learned that using VerseKey is a possible way,
>>> but I just want to keep my working method via
>>> SWModule *module = (SWMgr) library.getModule("LXX")
>>> and force using KJV v11n also if 3.0 is used.
>>> Thanks for advising me further.
>>> Best, Zoltan
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Dr. Zolt?n** Kov?cs, MSc*
>>
>> Institut Ausbildung
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Private P?dagogische Hochschule der Di?zese Linz *
>> *Private University of Education, Diocese Linz **Salesianumweg 3, 4020
>> Linz*
>> *Mail: zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at <zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at>*
>>
>> *Web: www.ph-linz.at <http://www.ph-linz.at/>*
>>
>> *RGate: **https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3
>> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3>*
>>
>>
>> * Aktuelle Ver?ffentlichungen:*
>>
>>    - Z. K. ?A note on Erd?s's mysterious remark?. arXiv:2412.05190v2
>>    <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386555316_A_note_on_Erdos%27s_mysterious_remark>
>>    (9 December, 2024).
>>    - Z. K. and Reinhard Oldenburg. ?A Technological Approach to Teaching
>>    Inequalities, Propositional and Predicate Logic?. In: 9th
>>    International Workshop on Satisfiability Checking and Symbolic
>>    Computation, July 2, 2024, Nancy, France, Collocated with IJCAR 2024.
>>    Ed. by Chris Brown, Daniela Kaufmann, Cl?udia Nalon, Alexander Steen, and Martin
>>    Suda. 3717 vols. July 2, 2024, pp. 122?131. eprint:
>>    http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-3717/paper7.pdf.
>>    - Z. K., Tom?s Recio and M. Pilar V?lez. ?On automated completion of
>>    geometry statements and proofs with GeoGebra Discovery
>>    <https://rdcu.be/d411I>?. Annals of Mathematics and Artificial
>>    Intelligence (December 27, 2024).
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez
>> l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible
>> <https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des
>> commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... Me
>> contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>

-- 

*Dr. Zolt?n** Kov?cs, MSc*

Institut Ausbildung




*Private P?dagogische Hochschule der Di?zese Linz*
*Private University of Education, Diocese Linz**Salesianumweg 3, 4020 Linz*
*Mail: zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at <zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at>*

*Web: www.ph-linz.at <http://www.ph-linz.at/>*

*RGate: **https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3
<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3>*


*Aktuelle Ver?ffentlichungen:*


   - Z. K. ?A note on Erd?s's mysterious remark?. arXiv:2412.05190v2
   <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386555316_A_note_on_Erdos%27s_mysterious_remark>
   (9 December, 2024).
   - Z. K. and Reinhard Oldenburg. ?A Technological Approach to Teaching
   Inequalities, Propositional and Predicate Logic?. In: 9th International
   Workshop on Satisfiability Checking and Symbolic Computation, July 2,
   2024, Nancy, France, Collocated with IJCAR 2024. Ed. by Chris Brown,
   Daniela Kaufmann, Cl?udia Nalon, Alexander Steen, and Martin Suda. 3717
   vols. July 2, 2024, pp. 122?131. eprint:
   http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-3717/paper7.pdf.
   - Z. K., Tom?s Recio and M. Pilar V?lez. ?On automated completion of
   geometry statements and proofs with GeoGebra Discovery
   <https://rdcu.be/d411I>?. Annals of Mathematics and Artificial
   Intelligence (December 27, 2024).
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From amadio.pierre at gmail.com  Thu Jan 23 14:46:16 2025
From: amadio.pierre at gmail.com (pierre amadio)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 20:46:16 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CACQaL-KcV6c_s-VezQrZBPgw0zsk9E1024FLmbTVRYLKZRoQKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
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 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAOTAUqJ_nW4QRmzdn9NDSwpgsUEeCiA08ogG7Rr4D0PNJmHG2w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello.

>From memory, the module had a major change at v 2.7 that included
accents&spirits, alternate versions and corrected morph code (with the
associated packard dictionnary).

On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, 19:17 Kov?cs Zolt?n, <kovzol at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ah, okay, does it mean that the module LXX 3.0 has just versification
> differences (or more or less only those) compared to version 2.5?
>
> Best, Zoltan
>
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From fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be  Thu Jan 23 16:09:03 2025
From: fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be (Fr Cyrille)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 22:09:03 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7905481f-feca-4976-a002-831b3cb8998c@tiberiade.be>




Le 23/01/2025 ? 19:07, Arnaud Vi? a ?crit?:
> Cyrille, I think what you are talking about are the versification 
> mappings.
>
> I'm familiar only with the JSword implementation, which is there : 
> https://github.com/AndBible/jsword/blob/develop/src/main/java/org/crosswire/jsword/versification/VersificationsMapper.java 
>
> It relies on mapping files describing how verses map from one 
> versification to KJV (or to KJVA, since my contribution on the 
> andbible fork), such as this one : 
> https://github.com/AndBible/jsword/blob/develop/src/main/resources/org/crosswire/jsword/versification/Catholic2.properties
> Any application can instantiate the VersificationsMapper to convert 
> references from any versification system to any other (using KJVA as 
> pivot).
> AndBible does, for example - and therefore can today seamlessly align 
> two screens displaying two bibles using completely different 
> versifications.
>
> This feature exists as well in the C++ libsword (I see some related 
> code in versificationmgr.cpp ), though I can't help much on that part. 
> Someone else may help explain how the C++ API for this works.
>
Exactly! It's what I'm speaking about! But I don't find it in the source 
of sword, if someone can help me?
>
> So I fully agree with Cyrille : I don't think preserving bibles in a 
> "wrong" versification is a good idea, given that we have a powerful 
> versification mapping feature that negates this need.
> The better way to go is to make sure this versification mapping 
> feature is easy to implement and well documented, for applications to 
> use it with minimal effort.
>
> (As a side note, I proposed early last year a set of principles to 
> design a modular versification system, precisely to improve the 
> accuracy of these versification mappings while reducing the burden of 
> maintaining dozens of versifications, which is still waiting for feedback.
> cf. http://crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2024-February/049957.html )

I'm really disappointed that no one in charge of the project reacted to 
this incredible proposal!
Please respond! At least let Arnaud propose a patch, so you can test and 
validate or not...
That's the tragedy of this list, there are often questions that remain 
unanswered, which prevents us from moving forward.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arnaud
>
> Le?jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ??18:14, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a 
> ?crit?:
>
>     It seems to me that there is a tool or file that allows you to
>     have the equivalent verses of all Bibles with the kjv when
>     displayed in parallel. (someone can help me?).
>     Personally, I'm not too keen on creating a module that uses kjv
>     versification for the LXX. Because it doesn't correspond to any
>     paper version.
>
>
>     Le 23/01/2025 ? 16:57, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit?:
>>     Dear Team,
>>     I restart this thread to ask a related question.
>>     For more than 2 years I have been using LXX version 2.5 in my
>>     Sword based application to have the old text available for
>>     research. But now I would like to try the new version 3.0 as
>>     well, to be available at the same time.
>>     Question: Would it be possible to make LXX version 2.5 available
>>     under a different module name (e.g. LXX25) on Crosswire's module
>>     server, to allow using both without any difficulty? Maybe this
>>     would be beneficial for other users than me. If not, I can of
>>     course do some hacking in my application and rename LXX version
>>     2.5 to LXX25 internally, and then download 3.0 as the new
>>     official LXX.
>>     Thanks and blessings, Zoltan
>>
>>
>>     Kov?cs Zolt?n <kovzol at gmail.com> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022. szept.
>>     1., Cs, 18:46):
>>
>>         Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2022.
>>         szept. 1., Cs, 12:27):
>>
>>
>>
>>             Le 01/09/2022 ? 12:19, Kov?cs Zolt?n a ?crit?:
>>>             Plus:
>>>             It seems some verse numberings are different.
>>>             E.g., version 2.5: Psalms 18:47 = version 3.0: Psalms 17:48
>>>             For me, such changes break several parts of the database.
>>>             Is there a list of such modifications available?
>>>             Thanks, Zoltan
>>
>>             The new module use the new versification, LXX. You can
>>             see the new v11n in the sword's sources.
>>
>>         Thanks for the information! I understand that 2.5 uses KJV
>>         (as default), so I have all entries in KJV v11n in my database.
>>         Is there a simple way to convert a KJV verse notation into
>>         LXX v11n? I learned that using VerseKey is a possible way,
>>         but I just want to keep my working method via
>>         SWModule *module = (SWMgr) library.getModule("LXX")
>>         and force using KJV v11n also if 3.0 is used.
>>         Thanks for advising me further.
>>         Best, Zoltan
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>
>>     *Dr. Zolt?n**?Kov?cs, MSc*
>>
>>     Institut Ausbildung
>>
>>     /Private P?dagogische Hochschule der Di?zese Linz
>>     //Private University of Education, Diocese Linz
>>     //Salesianumweg 3, 4020 Linz//
>>     //Mail: zoltan.kovacs at ph-linz.at/
>>
>>     /Web: www.ph-linz.at <http://www.ph-linz.at/>/
>>
>>     /RGate: //https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3
>>     <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zoltan-Kovacs-3>/
>>
>>     *
>>     Aktuelle Ver?ffentlichungen:*
>>
>>       * Z. K. ?A note on Erd?s's mysterious remark?.
>>         arXiv:2412.05190v2
>>         <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386555316_A_note_on_Erdos%27s_mysterious_remark>
>>         (9 December, 2024).
>>       * Z. K. and Reinhard Oldenburg. ?A Technological Approach to
>>         Teaching Inequalities, Propositional and Predicate Logic?.
>>         In: 9th International Workshop on Satisfiability Checking and
>>         Symbolic Computation, July 2, 2024, Nancy, France, Collocated
>>         with IJCAR 2024. Ed. by Chris Brown, Daniela Kaufmann,
>>         Cl?udia Nalon, Alexander Steen, and Martin Suda. 3717 vols.
>>         July 2, 2024, pp. 122?131. eprint:
>>         http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-3717/paper7.pdf.
>>       * Z. K., Tom?s Recio and M. Pilar V?lez. ?On automated
>>         completion of geometry statements and proofs with GeoGebra
>>         Discovery <https://rdcu.be/d411I>?.?Annals of Mathematics and
>>         Artificial Intelligence?(December 27, 2024).
>>
>>
>
>     -- 
>     Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez
>     l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible
>     <https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des
>     commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres
>     fonctionnalit?s... Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
>     _______________________________________________
>     sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>     http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>     Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

-- 
Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez 
l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible 
<https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des 
commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... 
Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
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From fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be  Thu Jan 23 16:10:23 2025
From: fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be (Fr Cyrille)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 22:10:23 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CAOTAUqJ_nW4QRmzdn9NDSwpgsUEeCiA08ogG7Rr4D0PNJmHG2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPgqz2=5COc1nqw3G-7J+4O5LB50VV-_V_=CEqFkZyMXgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-KcV6c_s-VezQrZBPgw0zsk9E1024FLmbTVRYLKZRoQKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqJ_nW4QRmzdn9NDSwpgsUEeCiA08ogG7Rr4D0PNJmHG2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93ef77d2-eb2f-49d5-955a-f0ccb599f2c2@tiberiade.be>




Le 23/01/2025 ? 20:46, pierre amadio a ?crit?:
>
> Hello.
>
> From memory, the module had a major change at v 2.7 that included 
> accents&spirits, alternate versions and corrected morph code (with the 
> associated packard dictionnary).

And new books (DC, Apocryphes) Complet morph, and strongs...
>
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2025, 19:17 Kov?cs Zolt?n, <kovzol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Ah, okay, does it mean that the module LXX 3.0 has just
>     versification differences?(or more or less only those) compared to
>     version 2.5?
>
>     Best, Zoltan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

-- 
Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez 
l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible 
<https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des 
commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... 
Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
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From unas.zole+avie at gmail.com  Thu Jan 23 18:40:06 2025
From: unas.zole+avie at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Arnaud_Vi=C3=A9?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 00:40:06 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>

> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a
> ?crit :
>
>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is
>> no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in
>> parallel?).
>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>
>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it
>> works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on
>> it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>
>
You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with
the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded
within versificationmgr.cpp.

The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely
different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot
clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the
loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :

1.
The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present
in this bible and absent from KJV.
Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character
serving as delimiter.
In canon_vulg, thoses are the
'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
'S', 'u', 's', 0,
'B', 'e', 'l', 0,

2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that
first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.

3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers,
each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
For example, this is a mapping rule :
21,  4,   9,   10,  4,   8,   0,

First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at
1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10"
corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to
chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are
mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping
file.


I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping
properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic
and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword
fork.

But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better
to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their
mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined
by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf
https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json
), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even
just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged
between sword and jsword...

Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification
system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a
central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then
could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge
step forward.

Regards,

Arnaud
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From fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be  Fri Jan 24 03:12:21 2025
From: fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be (Fr Cyrille)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 09:12:21 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0ec4c01a-040b-4b45-b263-5393c5c2c06c@tiberiade.be>




Le 24/01/2025 ? 00:40, Arnaud Vi? a ?crit?:
>
>     Le?jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ??22:18, Fr Cyrille
>     <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a ?crit?:
>
>         So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX
>         there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems
>         I've had displaying in parallel?).
>         In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>         unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>
>         If someone can explain or give me a documentation to
>         understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping
>         takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should
>         be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>
>
> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined 
> with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and 
> decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>
> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's 
> completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which 
> is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the 
> loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the?canon_vulg.h 
> example :
>
> 1.
> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books 
> present in this bible and absent from KJV.
> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character 
> serving as delimiter.
> In canon_vulg, thoses are the
> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>
> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of 
> that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely 
> differently.
>
> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 
> numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
> For example, this is a mapping rule :
> 21, ?4, ? 9, ? 10, ?4, ? 8, ? 0,
>
> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, 
> starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" 
> corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds 
> to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV 
> are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword 
> mapping file.
>
>
> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping 
> properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the 
> Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the 
> AndBible jsword fork.
>
Ok Then I'll way for this.
> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot 
> better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and 
> all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe 
> the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf 
> https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json 
> ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because 
> even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly 
> diverged between sword and jsword...
>
I agree...
> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular 
> versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least 
> we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our 
> versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and 
> jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>
> Regards,
>
> Arnaud

-- 
Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez 
l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible 
<https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des 
commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... 
Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Fri Jan 24 05:01:43 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 10:01:43 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <0ec4c01a-040b-4b45-b263-5393c5c2c06c@tiberiade.be>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ec4c01a-040b-4b45-b263-5393c5c2c06c@tiberiade.be>
Message-ID: <74ldLu4pTHYbUEpYv4oyFo941b7KWJpJUfxqVcH37XLYh5f2WAxgCe6PKqj3a2UY7Eu9GnHGmrji7hAzW5iGJ4iar-Sl-Z2g0kb2YwxIEfQ=@protonmail.com>

Thanks Arnoud,

I just added a link under Resources in the developers' wiki page:

[Alternate Versification - CrossWire Bible Society](https://wiki.crosswire.org/Alternate_Versification#Resources)

Best regards,

David

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.

On Friday, January 24th, 2025 at 8:12 AM, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> wrote:

> Le 24/01/2025 ? 00:40, Arnaud Vi? a ?crit :
>
>>> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a ?crit :
>>>
>>>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>>>
>>>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>
>> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
>> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>>
>> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :
>>
>> 1.
>> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present in this bible and absent from KJV.
>> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character serving as delimiter.
>> In canon_vulg, thoses are the
>> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
>> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
>> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
>> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>>
>> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.
>>
>> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
>> For example, this is a mapping rule :
>> 21, 4, 9, 10, 4, 8, 0,
>>
>> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
>> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
>> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
>> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
>> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping file.
>>
>> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword fork.
>
> Ok Then I'll way for this.
>
>> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged between sword and jsword...
>
> I agree...
>
>> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Arnaud
>
> --
> Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez l'application libre [Xiphos](https://xiphos.org/) ou [Andbible](https://andbible.github.io/) et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Fri Jan 24 05:03:11 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 10:03:11 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <74ldLu4pTHYbUEpYv4oyFo941b7KWJpJUfxqVcH37XLYh5f2WAxgCe6PKqj3a2UY7Eu9GnHGmrji7hAzW5iGJ4iar-Sl-Z2g0kb2YwxIEfQ=@protonmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <0ec4c01a-040b-4b45-b263-5393c5c2c06c@tiberiade.be>
 <74ldLu4pTHYbUEpYv4oyFo941b7KWJpJUfxqVcH37XLYh5f2WAxgCe6PKqj3a2UY7Eu9GnHGmrji7hAzW5iGJ4iar-Sl-Z2g0kb2YwxIEfQ=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <AblCMxhJjHRI7r0NtOAaAlqj020VGQhF-GxL96IpAdzo3nTFS3bD4EmrNyRRC9pX951zWG-yJ1PCBOid1HPKi6-1mZVBwO7uU9tfVPdZ02k=@protonmail.com>

Arnaud,

Sorry for the typo in your name in my reply. Mea culpa.

Best regards,

David

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.

On Friday, January 24th, 2025 at 10:01 AM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Arnoud,
>
> I just added a link under Resources in the developers' wiki page:
>
> [Alternate Versification - CrossWire Bible Society](https://wiki.crosswire.org/Alternate_Versification#Resources)
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.
>
> On Friday, January 24th, 2025 at 8:12 AM, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> wrote:
>
>> Le 24/01/2025 ? 00:40, Arnaud Vi? a ?crit :
>>
>>>> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a ?crit :
>>>>
>>>>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>>>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>>>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>>
>>> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
>>> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>>>
>>> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>>> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :
>>>
>>> 1.
>>> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present in this bible and absent from KJV.
>>> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character serving as delimiter.
>>> In canon_vulg, thoses are the
>>> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
>>> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
>>> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
>>> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>>>
>>> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.
>>>
>>> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
>>> For example, this is a mapping rule :
>>> 21, 4, 9, 10, 4, 8, 0,
>>>
>>> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
>>> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
>>> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
>>> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
>>> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping file.
>>>
>>> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword fork.
>>
>> Ok Then I'll way for this.
>>
>>> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged between sword and jsword...
>>
>> I agree...
>>
>>> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Arnaud
>>
>> --
>> Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez l'application libre [Xiphos](https://xiphos.org/) ou [Andbible](https://andbible.github.io/) et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
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From dmsmith at crosswire.org  Fri Jan 24 09:11:02 2025
From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 09:11:02 -0500
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>



> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:40?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be <mailto:fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be>> a ?crit :
>>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>> 
>>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
> 
> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
> 
> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :

SWORD is built for speed. The format is a C string (characters followed by a null). SWORD?s format is meant to be obscure to force the use of SWORD and JSword as the mechanism to read SWORD modules.

JSword is meant to be in lock step with the formats of SWORD. WRT the mapping files, these were developed independently and at the same time. I deemed it too hard at the time to bring JSword back into alignment w SWORD?s format. JSword?s format is human readable, external, easily maintainable and is read when needed.

> 
> 1.
> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present in this bible and absent from KJV.
> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character serving as delimiter.
> In canon_vulg, thoses are the 
> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
> 
> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.
> 
> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
> For example, this is a mapping rule :
> 21,  4,   9,   10,  4,   8,   0,
> 
> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping file.
> 
> 
> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword fork.

That would be greatly appreciated!

> 
> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged between sword and jsword...


IIRC, the mapping of deuterocanonical material I don?t think was ever completed.

> 
> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.

I think Chris Little developed an external format that would build the canon_*.h files. I don?t remember if there was something like this that was developed for mappings.

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Arnaud
>  
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

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From dmsmith at crosswire.org  Fri Jan 24 09:11:02 2025
From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 09:11:02 -0500
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>



> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:40?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be <mailto:fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be>> a ?crit :
>>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>> 
>>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
> 
> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
> 
> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :

SWORD is built for speed. The format is a C string (characters followed by a null). SWORD?s format is meant to be obscure to force the use of SWORD and JSword as the mechanism to read SWORD modules.

JSword is meant to be in lock step with the formats of SWORD. WRT the mapping files, these were developed independently and at the same time. I deemed it too hard at the time to bring JSword back into alignment w SWORD?s format. JSword?s format is human readable, external, easily maintainable and is read when needed.

> 
> 1.
> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present in this bible and absent from KJV.
> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character serving as delimiter.
> In canon_vulg, thoses are the 
> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
> 
> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.
> 
> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
> For example, this is a mapping rule :
> 21,  4,   9,   10,  4,   8,   0,
> 
> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping file.
> 
> 
> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword fork.

That would be greatly appreciated!

> 
> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged between sword and jsword...


IIRC, the mapping of deuterocanonical material I don?t think was ever completed.

> 
> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.

I think Chris Little developed an external format that would build the canon_*.h files. I don?t remember if there was something like this that was developed for mappings.

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Arnaud
>  
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

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From kovzol at gmail.com  Fri Jan 24 17:19:06 2025
From: kovzol at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?S292w6FjcyBab2x0w6Fu?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 23:19:06 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <93ef77d2-eb2f-49d5-955a-f0ccb599f2c2@tiberiade.be>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPgqz2=5COc1nqw3G-7J+4O5LB50VV-_V_=CEqFkZyMXgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-KcV6c_s-VezQrZBPgw0zsk9E1024FLmbTVRYLKZRoQKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqJ_nW4QRmzdn9NDSwpgsUEeCiA08ogG7Rr4D0PNJmHG2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <93ef77d2-eb2f-49d5-955a-f0ccb599f2c2@tiberiade.be>
Message-ID: <CACQaL-Jc3++x-QQhR--EyzK7qftoXNw1br+F+yFKqAPwYrSdRg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the clarification!

Now I am trying to play with conversion of different versifications via the
SWORD API.
I have Psalm 69:22 from KJV: "Let their table become a snare before them:
and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap."
This seems to be Psalm 68:23 in LXX 3.0: "???????? ? ??????? ????? ???????
????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??????????? ??? ??? ?????????".
By compiling the source file sword-1.9.0/examples/classes/verseconvert.cpp,
I am checking this in the following way:

$ *./verseconvert "Psalms 69:22" KJV LXX*
Psalms 69:22 (KJV) => Psalms 69:7-Psalms 70:15 (LXX)
$ *./verseconvert "Psalms 68:23" LXX KJV*
Psalms 68:23 (LXX) => Psalms 68:23 (KJV)

So, it doesn't seem to work. When I'm trying if I should reverse the
parameters:

$ *./verseconvert "Psalms 69:22" LXX KJV*
Psalms 70:15 (LXX) => Psalms 70:5-Psalms 71:10 (KJV)
$ *./verseconvert "Psalms 68:23" KJV LXX*
Psalms 68:23 (KJV) => Psalms 68:23 (LXX)

It doesn't work, either. Maybe there is a module error somewhere, or am I
doing something wrong?

Thanks for any hints in advance,
Zoltan

Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> ezt ?rta (id?pont: 2025. jan. 23., Cs,
22:10):

>
>
>
> Le 23/01/2025 ? 20:46, pierre amadio a ?crit :
>
>
> Hello.
>
> From memory, the module had a major change at v 2.7 that included
> accents&spirits, alternate versions and corrected morph code (with the
> associated packard dictionnary).
>
>
> And new books (DC, Apocryphes) Complet morph, and strongs...
>
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From dmsmith at crosswire.org  Sun Jan 26 09:02:25 2025
From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 09:02:25 -0500
Subject: [sword-devel] Bug / unexpected behavior in osis2mod
In-Reply-To: <8734whbnnj.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <8734whbnnj.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91E08787-D992-465A-B38A-8A5C35EC6D4A@crosswire.org>

Dear Pinoaffe,

See below for embedded.

> On Dec 2, 2023, at 7:05?AM, pinoaffe <pinoaffe at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> as of late, i've been playing around with various digital bibles, and in
> doing so, I encountered some issues with ~osis2mod~:
> 
> 
> 
> when an osis-encoded bible-book has more chapters than it should have
> according to the versification, osis2mod seems to loop infinitely or at
> least for quite a long time
> 
> I think it would be neat if osis2mod could instead output some sort of
> warning instead, just like it does when there are additional books - it
> could of course also merge any additional chapters into the last verse
> of the previous chapter, but that seems somewhat excessive to me.

I agree that it should output a diagnostic that the chapter is outside the v11n. And that it should either append the content to the last verse of the last chapter in the book within the v11n or pitch it.

It is in keeping with the design of osis2mod that all content in the input is placed within the module.

> 
> 
> 
> Another issue I've encountered: when I convert a text of the following
> shape into a sword module using osis2mod and open it in andbible, the
> verse numbers are placed incorrectly and the verse "body/text" of the
> last verse is not recognized as being part of said verse
> 
> #+begin_src xml
> <div type="chapter">
>    <verse osisID="Fictional.1.999">
>        This is the last verse in a chapter
>    </verse>
>    <lb/>
> </div>
> #+end_src
> 
> I think that either osis2mod or andbible cannot deal with nodes being
> placed outside the last verse but within the chapter, but I'm not sure
> whether that's the cause, and I'm not sufficiently familiar with the
> internals of osis2mod or andbible to figure out what the cause is
> 
> Does anyone else know what's going on?

Is ?Fictional? a book in the Bible within the v11n that has already been seen? Is chapter 1 representative of any chapter that is actually within the v11n or do you mean chapter 1?

If I remember correctly (I?ve worked on osis2mod but haven?t looked at it for over 10 years), within SWORD, Genesis 1:999 is converted into the 999th verse within Genesis. if it were Gen 2:999. It would be the 999th verse after the start of Genesis 2. The mechanism of index retrieval, is to get the position of the chapter start, add the number of verses to it to produce the spot in the index to where the verse should be stored.

I haven?t looked at how JSword handles Gen 2.999 for many years, but from memory, it constrains a verse reference to within the named chapter. Might toss an error. That is it diverges from how SWORD handles the difference.

> 
> 
> 
> Another (minor) issue is that osis2mod doesn't seem to be able to deal
> with OSIS documents that use an XML namespace prefixes, so a document
> that starts as seen below will not be recognized/parsed properly by
> osis2mod
> 
> #+begin_src xml
> <osis:osis
> xmlns:osis="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace"
> xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
> xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace
> http://www.bibltechnolgologies.net/OSIS/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd">
> <osis:osisText xml:lang="nl" osisRefWork="defaultReferenceScheme>
> <osis:header>
> .....
> #+end_src

SWORD does not use an XML parser. It has its own parsing mechanism built for speed and not according to the spec and namespaces are not supported.

> 
> 
> 
> And finally: 
> A while ago, someone posted on the mailing list that they encountered
> weird behaviour/bugs/issues when milestoned verses intersected itemized
> lists, I have noticed similar issues, and will try to take a look at how
> osis2mod deals with milestoned verses

A requirement of osis2mod is that it can transform OSIS to well-formed XML, verse by verse. SWORD and JSword are built for researching rather than merely reading Bibles. The smallest unit of display is the verse.

This is probably an instance of where the transformation was not done, or couldn?t be done.

FYI, Each verse is split into 2 parts, pre-verse and verse. The pre-verse is not output if it is empty. It contains things like titles and introductions and markup between verses.

If you can find an example, we can look at it.

> 
> I can't seem to find the specific message in the archives anymore,
> otherwise I would have linked to it
> 
> May God bless you,
> pinoaffe
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page


From scribe at crosswire.org  Mon Jan 27 11:00:39 2025
From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:00:39 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <85474bb6-a8c9-493e-b77f-26c017f0876d@crosswire.org>

Hey guys.? I recently had to port the mapping work done in 
VersificationMgr for use in the VMRCRE and had to fully understand the 
scheme and syntax used in the good work done by ????? on this a few 
years back.

It was a bit difficult for me to keep each component straight in my mind 
initially so during my port, I created a class with clear property names 
to hold each value, and an import format which makes it clear what 
values do what.? Here are the lines of code for reference:

This is the VMRCRE equivelant to a canon.h file (MTNU: the Masoretic OT 
+ Nestle/Aland NT) and has mappings between the MTNU and the LXXNU (LXX 
= G?ttingen/Rahlfs) versifications under the <mappings> section near the 
end:

https://crosswire.org/svn/community/trunk/contrib/v11ns/MTNU.xml


Port of VersificationMgr with class to hold the mappings section:

https://git.crosswire.org/main/crosswire-java/-/blob/master/src/org/crosswire/sword/mgr/VersificationMgr.java#L233

Hope this is helpful,

Troy


On 1/24/25 3:11 PM, DM Smith wrote:
>
>
>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:40?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     Le?jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ??22:18, Fr Cyrille
>>     <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a ?crit?:
>>
>>         So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and
>>         LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the
>>         problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>         In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>         unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>
>>         If someone can explain or give me a documentation to
>>         understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping
>>         takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should
>>         be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>
>>
>> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array 
>> defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
>> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and 
>> decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>>
>> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's 
>> completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword 
>> (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of 
>> the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and 
>> the?canon_vulg.h example :
>
> SWORD is built for speed. The format is a C string (characters 
> followed by a null). SWORD?s format is meant to be obscure to force 
> the use of SWORD and JSword as the mechanism to read SWORD modules.
>
> JSword is meant to be in lock step with the formats of SWORD. WRT the 
> mapping files, these were developed independently and at the same 
> time. I deemed it too hard at the time to bring JSword back into 
> alignment w SWORD?s format. JSword?s format is human readable, 
> external, easily maintainable and is read when needed.
>
>>
>> 1.
>> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books 
>> present in this bible and absent from KJV.
>> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character 
>> serving as delimiter.
>> In canon_vulg, thoses are the
>> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
>> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
>> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
>> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>>
>> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of 
>> that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely 
>> differently.
>>
>> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 
>> numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
>> For example, this is a mapping rule :
>> 21, ?4, ? 9, ? 10, ?4, ? 8, ? 0,
>>
>> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, 
>> starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
>> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" 
>> corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
>> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds 
>> to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
>> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV 
>> are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
>> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword 
>> mapping file.
>>
>>
>> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping 
>> properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the 
>> Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the 
>> AndBible jsword fork.
>
> That would be greatly appreciated!
>
>>
>> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot 
>> better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and 
>> all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe 
>> the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf 
>> https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json 
>> ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because 
>> even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have 
>> vastly diverged between sword and jsword...
>
> IIRC, the mapping of deuterocanonical material I don?t think was ever 
> completed.
>
>>
>> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular 
>> versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least 
>> we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our 
>> versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and 
>> jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>
> I think Chris Little developed an external format that would build the 
> canon_*.h files. I don?t remember if there was something like this 
> that was developed for mappings.
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Arnaud
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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From fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be  Mon Jan 27 11:22:24 2025
From: fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be (Fr Cyrille)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:22:24 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <85474bb6-a8c9-493e-b77f-26c017f0876d@crosswire.org>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>
 <85474bb6-a8c9-493e-b77f-26c017f0876d@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <564168c6-80b8-4c83-8353-c931ff24769e@tiberiade.be>

Thanks Troy,
I'll take advantage of your reply to ask you what you think of Arnaud's 
proposal. Do you think it would be useful for him to develop his patch?


Le 27/01/2025 ? 17:00, Troy A. Griffitts a ?crit?:
>
> Hey guys.? I recently had to port the mapping work done in 
> VersificationMgr for use in the VMRCRE and had to fully understand the 
> scheme and syntax used in the good work done by ????? on this a few 
> years back.
>
> It was a bit difficult for me to keep each component straight in my 
> mind initially so during my port, I created a class with clear 
> property names to hold each value, and an import format which makes it 
> clear what values do what.? Here are the lines of code for reference:
>
> This is the VMRCRE equivelant to a canon.h file (MTNU: the Masoretic 
> OT + Nestle/Aland NT) and has mappings between the MTNU and the LXXNU 
> (LXX = G?ttingen/Rahlfs) versifications under the <mappings> section 
> near the end:
>
> https://crosswire.org/svn/community/trunk/contrib/v11ns/MTNU.xml
>
>
> Port of VersificationMgr with class to hold the mappings section:
>
> https://git.crosswire.org/main/crosswire-java/-/blob/master/src/org/crosswire/sword/mgr/VersificationMgr.java#L233
>
> Hope this is helpful,
>
> Troy
>
>
> On 1/24/25 3:11 PM, DM Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:40?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     Le?jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ??22:18, Fr Cyrille
>>>     <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a ?crit?:
>>>
>>>         So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and
>>>         LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the
>>>         problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>>         In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>>         unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>>
>>>         If someone can explain or give me a documentation to
>>>         understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping
>>>         takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should
>>>         be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>>
>>>
>>> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array 
>>> defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
>>> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and 
>>> decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>>>
>>> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's 
>>> completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword 
>>> (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>>> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of 
>>> the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and 
>>> the?canon_vulg.h example :
>>
>> SWORD is built for speed. The format is a C string (characters 
>> followed by a null). SWORD?s format is meant to be obscure to force 
>> the use of SWORD and JSword as the mechanism to read SWORD modules.
>>
>> JSword is meant to be in lock step with the formats of SWORD. WRT the 
>> mapping files, these were developed independently and at the same 
>> time. I deemed it too hard at the time to bring JSword back into 
>> alignment w SWORD?s format. JSword?s format is human readable, 
>> external, easily maintainable and is read when needed.
>>
>>>
>>> 1.
>>> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books 
>>> present in this bible and absent from KJV.
>>> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character 
>>> serving as delimiter.
>>> In canon_vulg, thoses are the
>>> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
>>> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
>>> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
>>> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>>>
>>> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of 
>>> that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely 
>>> differently.
>>>
>>> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 
>>> numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
>>> For example, this is a mapping rule :
>>> 21, ?4, ? 9, ? 10, ?4, ? 8, ? 0,
>>>
>>> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, 
>>> starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
>>> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" 
>>> corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
>>> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" 
>>> corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
>>> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV 
>>> are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
>>> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword 
>>> mapping file.
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword 
>>> mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed 
>>> add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building 
>>> for the AndBible jsword fork.
>>
>> That would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>>>
>>> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot 
>>> better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and 
>>> all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe 
>>> the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf 
>>> https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json 
>>> ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because 
>>> even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have 
>>> vastly diverged between sword and jsword...
>>
>> IIRC, the mapping of deuterocanonical material I don?t think was ever 
>> completed.
>>
>>>
>>> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular 
>>> versification system that I would like to build, if at the very 
>>> least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all 
>>> our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword 
>>> and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>>
>> I think Chris Little developed an external format that would build 
>> the canon_*.h files. I don?t remember if there was something like 
>> this that was developed for mappings.
>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Arnaud
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

-- 
Vous aimez la Bible?? Vous ?tes ?tudiant en th?ologie?? Utilisez 
l'application libre Xiphos <https://xiphos.org/> ou Andbible 
<https://andbible.github.io/> et acc?dez aux textes sources, ? des 
commentaires, des dictionnaires et beaucoup d'autres fonctionnalit?s... 
Me contacter pour des traductions en fran?ais.
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Mon Jan 27 11:39:38 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 16:39:38 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <85474bb6-a8c9-493e-b77f-26c017f0876d@crosswire.org>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>
 <85474bb6-a8c9-493e-b77f-26c017f0876d@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <PL4H5hGmngYew9u-ou5U2IU37dDLr_mvzEIYcqHXAgXkNAwFyL7dO4onSuAMFhy73c0h3pO6JyFO584LJ9AinbXmnWf0fOTWgp_FbgRgaKg=@protonmail.com>

Here's a link to the VMRCRE which Troy mentioned.

[VMR CRE - Virtual Manuscript Room Collaborative Research Environment - Virtual Manuscript Room Collaborative Research Environment (VMR CRE)](https://vmrcre.org/)

It may be of wider interest than the particular technical point about versification data.

Best regards,

David

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.

On Monday, January 27th, 2025 at 4:00 PM, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:

> Hey guys. I recently had to port the mapping work done in VersificationMgr for use in the VMRCRE and had to fully understand the scheme and syntax used in the good work done by ????? on this a few years back.
>
> It was a bit difficult for me to keep each component straight in my mind initially so during my port, I created a class with clear property names to hold each value, and an import format which makes it clear what values do what. Here are the lines of code for reference:
>
> This is the VMRCRE equivelant to a canon.h file (MTNU: the Masoretic OT + Nestle/Aland NT) and has mappings between the MTNU and the LXXNU (LXX = G?ttingen/Rahlfs) versifications under the <mappings> section near the end:
>
> https://crosswire.org/svn/community/trunk/contrib/v11ns/MTNU.xml
>
> Port of VersificationMgr with class to hold the mappings section:
>
> https://git.crosswire.org/main/crosswire-java/-/blob/master/src/org/crosswire/sword/mgr/VersificationMgr.java#L233
>
> Hope this is helpful,
>
> Troy
>
> On 1/24/25 3:11 PM, DM Smith wrote:
>
>>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:40?PM, Arnaud Vi? [<unas.zole+avie at gmail.com>](mailto:unas.zole+avie at gmail.com) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> a ?crit :
>>>>
>>>>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>>>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>>>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>>
>>> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
>>> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>>>
>>> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>>> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :
>>
>> SWORD is built for speed. The format is a C string (characters followed by a null). SWORD?s format is meant to be obscure to force the use of SWORD and JSword as the mechanism to read SWORD modules.
>>
>> JSword is meant to be in lock step with the formats of SWORD. WRT the mapping files, these were developed independently and at the same time. I deemed it too hard at the time to bring JSword back into alignment w SWORD?s format. JSword?s format is human readable, external, easily maintainable and is read when needed.
>>
>>> 1.
>>> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present in this bible and absent from KJV.
>>> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character serving as delimiter.
>>> In canon_vulg, thoses are the
>>> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
>>> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
>>> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
>>> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>>>
>>> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.
>>>
>>> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
>>> For example, this is a mapping rule :
>>> 21, 4, 9, 10, 4, 8, 0,
>>>
>>> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
>>> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
>>> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
>>> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
>>> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping file.
>>>
>>> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword fork.
>>
>> That would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>>> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged between sword and jsword...
>>
>> IIRC, the mapping of deuterocanonical material I don?t think was ever completed.
>>
>>> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>>
>> I think Chris Little developed an external format that would build the canon_*.h files. I don?t remember if there was something like this that was developed for mappings.
>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Arnaud
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list:
>> sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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From dmsmith at crosswire.org  Mon Jan 27 16:06:27 2025
From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 16:06:27 -0500
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <85474bb6-a8c9-493e-b77f-26c017f0876d@crosswire.org>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>
 <85474bb6-a8c9-493e-b77f-26c017f0876d@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <8266D1BE-354A-4775-B547-BDAF67DDA4F9@crosswire.org>

Troy,
In your XML file in the mapping section you have book=?25?. To which book does this refer? In the OT and the NT there are books with bookNum=?25?.
DM

> On Jan 27, 2025, at 11:00?AM, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey guys.  I recently had to port the mapping work done in VersificationMgr for use in the VMRCRE and had to fully understand the scheme and syntax used in the good work done by ????? on this a few years back.
> 
> It was a bit difficult for me to keep each component straight in my mind initially so during my port, I created a class with clear property names to hold each value, and an import format which makes it clear what values do what.  Here are the lines of code for reference:
> 
> This is the VMRCRE equivelant to a canon.h file (MTNU: the Masoretic OT + Nestle/Aland NT) and has mappings between the MTNU and the LXXNU (LXX = G?ttingen/Rahlfs) versifications under the <mappings> section near the end:
> 
> https://crosswire.org/svn/community/trunk/contrib/v11ns/MTNU.xml
> 
> 
> 
> Port of VersificationMgr with class to hold the mappings section:
> 
> https://git.crosswire.org/main/crosswire-java/-/blob/master/src/org/crosswire/sword/mgr/VersificationMgr.java#L233
> 
> Hope this is helpful,
> 
> Troy
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/24/25 3:11 PM, DM Smith wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:40?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> <mailto:unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be <mailto:fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be>> a ?crit :
>>>>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>>>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>>>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>>>> 
>>>>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>> 
>>> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
>>> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>>> 
>>> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>>> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :
>> 
>> SWORD is built for speed. The format is a C string (characters followed by a null). SWORD?s format is meant to be obscure to force the use of SWORD and JSword as the mechanism to read SWORD modules.
>> 
>> JSword is meant to be in lock step with the formats of SWORD. WRT the mapping files, these were developed independently and at the same time. I deemed it too hard at the time to bring JSword back into alignment w SWORD?s format. JSword?s format is human readable, external, easily maintainable and is read when needed.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 1.
>>> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present in this bible and absent from KJV.
>>> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character serving as delimiter.
>>> In canon_vulg, thoses are the 
>>> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
>>> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
>>> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
>>> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>>> 
>>> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.
>>> 
>>> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
>>> For example, this is a mapping rule :
>>> 21,  4,   9,   10,  4,   8,   0,
>>> 
>>> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
>>> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
>>> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
>>> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
>>> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping file.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword fork.
>> 
>> That would be greatly appreciated!
>> 
>>> 
>>> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged between sword and jsword...
>> 
>> 
>> IIRC, the mapping of deuterocanonical material I don?t think was ever completed.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>> 
>> I think Chris Little developed an external format that would build the canon_*.h files. I don?t remember if there was something like this that was developed for mappings.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Arnaud
>>>  
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Tue Jan 28 03:44:38 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 08:44:38 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
Message-ID: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>

I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.

There were no results found!

This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other Psalms.

"To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."

In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?

Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?

cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.

Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the  module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.

Best regards,

David

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

From johan.marais at messianic.co.za  Tue Jan 28 06:17:50 2025
From: johan.marais at messianic.co.za (Johan Marais)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 11:17:50 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
In-Reply-To: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>
References: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <AM9PR09MB4915D4F76CB4CF79C8F4F8B0C0EF2@AM9PR09MB4915.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

David.

In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:

[cid:image003.png at 01DB7187.082A5FC0]

And a 'normal' search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:

[cid:image002.png at 01DB7186.EAE0A9B0]

Regards,

Johan Marais



________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> On Behalf Of David Haslam
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45
To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?



I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.



There were no results found!



This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other Psalms.



"To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."



In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?



Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?



cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.



Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the  module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.



Best regards,



David



Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

_______________________________________________

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From scribe at crosswire.org  Tue Jan 28 06:28:28 2025
From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 12:28:28 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <8266D1BE-354A-4775-B547-BDAF67DDA4F9@crosswire.org>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
 <CACQaL-JH_h8tFgZHAC=MO0rewFZsWUrtPcT9Vrr+O_ZWRBPV4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOTAUqK6e2-aqCqs8CFNwYoGLZTnWrou5tHwy7DYou8WH5fLoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+M1nMBuFZ3RH3qD8S1OenmRmWTPBiBz7rVrQkKeNfYNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-Ljg5+xKm9+L4RoPcDW+DiOZ0nTRRA6q=PP4dt6jmufzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <050c8ab9-2b00-f2c6-7365-8adba4d02264@tiberiade.be>
 <CACQaL-+bMeCwC=1nhXEYsQqSwZxA62mca1Q+XRW0X_3yV9xf0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhQxx1MeOyhTwzj7dnwyG3tT=1=jJ9oPn-Gzujoanuh=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>
 <85474bb6-a8c9-493e-b77f-26c017f0876d@crosswire.org>
 <8266D1BE-354A-4775-B547-BDAF67DDA4F9@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <6BA0B87E-3AA0-4DB0-9D59-F40E8BD53D55@crosswire.org>

From this comment, I believe the mappings use 1 based book numbers starting with Genesis and continuing up into the New Testament. I think this comment was from ????? in the original code.

https://git.crosswire.org/main/crosswire-java/-/blob/master/src/org/crosswire/sword/mgr/VersificationMgr.java#L178

Since this input format is for humans to easily read, I think you well point to a confusing aspect of the data file. I'll keep it in my mind to change the book attribute to use OSISID book identifiers instead of these numbers. I can fill the underlining data structures with the numbers for quick conversion by looking them up during the loading of the data file. Thanks for the comment.

Troy

On January 27, 2025 10:06:27 PM GMT+01:00, DM Smith <dmsmith at crosswire.org> wrote:
>Troy,
>In your XML file in the mapping section you have book=?25?. To which book does this refer? In the OT and the NT there are books with bookNum=?25?.
>DM
>
>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 11:00?AM, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey guys.  I recently had to port the mapping work done in VersificationMgr for use in the VMRCRE and had to fully understand the scheme and syntax used in the good work done by ????? on this a few years back.
>> 
>> It was a bit difficult for me to keep each component straight in my mind initially so during my port, I created a class with clear property names to hold each value, and an import format which makes it clear what values do what.  Here are the lines of code for reference:
>> 
>> This is the VMRCRE equivelant to a canon.h file (MTNU: the Masoretic OT + Nestle/Aland NT) and has mappings between the MTNU and the LXXNU (LXX = G?ttingen/Rahlfs) versifications under the <mappings> section near the end:
>> 
>> https://crosswire.org/svn/community/trunk/contrib/v11ns/MTNU.xml
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Port of VersificationMgr with class to hold the mappings section:
>> 
>> https://git.crosswire.org/main/crosswire-java/-/blob/master/src/org/crosswire/sword/mgr/VersificationMgr.java#L233
>> 
>> Hope this is helpful,
>> 
>> Troy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/24/25 3:11 PM, DM Smith wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:40?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> <mailto:unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be <mailto:fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be>> a ?crit :
>>>>>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>>>>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>>>>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>>> 
>>>> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
>>>> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>>>> 
>>>> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>>>> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :
>>> 
>>> SWORD is built for speed. The format is a C string (characters followed by a null). SWORD?s format is meant to be obscure to force the use of SWORD and JSword as the mechanism to read SWORD modules.
>>> 
>>> JSword is meant to be in lock step with the formats of SWORD. WRT the mapping files, these were developed independently and at the same time. I deemed it too hard at the time to bring JSword back into alignment w SWORD?s format. JSword?s format is human readable, external, easily maintainable and is read when needed.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 1.
>>>> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present in this bible and absent from KJV.
>>>> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character serving as delimiter.
>>>> In canon_vulg, thoses are the 
>>>> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
>>>> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
>>>> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
>>>> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>>>> 
>>>> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.
>>>> 
>>>> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
>>>> For example, this is a mapping rule :
>>>> 21,  4,   9,   10,  4,   8,   0,
>>>> 
>>>> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
>>>> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
>>>> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
>>>> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
>>>> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping file.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword fork.
>>> 
>>> That would be greatly appreciated!
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged between sword and jsword...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> IIRC, the mapping of deuterocanonical material I don?t think was ever completed.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>>> 
>>> I think Chris Little developed an external format that would build the canon_*.h files. I don?t remember if there was something like this that was developed for mappings.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Arnaud
>>>>  
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Tue Jan 28 07:02:17 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 12:02:17 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
In-Reply-To: <AM9PR09MB4915D4F76CB4CF79C8F4F8B0C0EF2@AM9PR09MB4915.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>
 <AM9PR09MB4915D4F76CB4CF79C8F4F8B0C0EF2@AM9PR09MB4915.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <gW8yJNMivn2tvJrPfORg7LmQS12Y02TgbcDDp32YFU_f-o0C1N0fR3Mr_z8qpFzn2p16qKLKNpPcLBo7lXHQIoHDrNNKleQfarHhcqgGnt0=@protonmail.com>

Thanks John,

Aside: I'm puzzled by the use of type="acrostic" when the 125 Psalms with canonical titles are nothing to do with acrostics, per se. Surely, that attribute should be reserved for the 22 stanza headings in Psalm 119 ?

There are Alternative Versifications in which the canonical Psalm titles are assigned to verse 1 (or in a few cases to verses 1 & 2) with subsequent verse numbers being offset by +1 (or +2).
I was not enquiring about modules that are for Bible versions like that.

In the KJV and many other modules, the Psalm titles proper are before the start of verse 1.

Best regards,

David

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.

On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 11:17 AM, Johan Marais <johan.marais at messianic.co.za> wrote:

> David.
>
> In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:
>
> And a ?normal? search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:
>
> Regards,
>
> Johan Marais
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> On Behalf Of David Haslam
> Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45
> To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
>
> I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.
>
> There were no results found!
>
> This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other Psalms.
>
> "To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."
>
> In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?
>
> Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?
>
> cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.
>
> Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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From unas.zole+avie at gmail.com  Tue Jan 28 13:48:20 2025
From: unas.zole+avie at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Arnaud_Vi=C3=A9?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 19:48:20 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
In-Reply-To: <gW8yJNMivn2tvJrPfORg7LmQS12Y02TgbcDDp32YFU_f-o0C1N0fR3Mr_z8qpFzn2p16qKLKNpPcLBo7lXHQIoHDrNNKleQfarHhcqgGnt0=@protonmail.com>
References: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>
 <AM9PR09MB4915D4F76CB4CF79C8F4F8B0C0EF2@AM9PR09MB4915.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <gW8yJNMivn2tvJrPfORg7LmQS12Y02TgbcDDp32YFU_f-o0C1N0fR3Mr_z8qpFzn2p16qKLKNpPcLBo7lXHQIoHDrNNKleQfarHhcqgGnt0=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kNJPic9_e0yTn_wG3c1XbarbEBkwN-izja+TFY=iaLMcy7WQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David,

The usage of "acrostic" in this case is indeed semantically incorrect.

According to the OSIS specification, the correct markup for a psalm
canonical title is
<title type="psalm" canonical="true">
and it is perfectly allowed to occur before the first verse.
The crosswire wiki mentions that, in this case, sword requires an
additional attribute subType="x-preverse" on the title tag, though I'm not
sure what the purpose of this tag is and if it affects your issue with
searching.

As a side note, in many bibles, as you say, some psalm titles span several
verses, and therefore the OSIS spec allows <verse/> tags in the middle of a
psalm title - though currently sword does not support it because osis2mod
does not transform the <title> tag to milestoned form.

Regards,

Arnaud

Le mar. 28 janv. 2025, 13:12, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> a ?crit :

> Thanks John,
>
> *Aside*: I'm puzzled by the use of *type="acrostic"* when the 125 Psalms
> with canonical titles are nothing to do with acrostics, *per se*. Surely,
> that attribute should be reserved for the 22 stanza headings in Psalm 119 ?
>
> There are Alternative Versifications in which the canonical Psalm titles
> are assigned to verse 1 (or in a few cases to verses 1 & 2) with subsequent
> verse numbers being offset by +1 (or +2).
> I was not enquiring about modules that are for Bible versions like that.
>
> In the KJV and many other modules, the Psalm titles proper are *before*
> the start of verse 1.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>
> On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 11:17 AM, Johan Marais <
> johan.marais at messianic.co.za> wrote:
>
> David.
>
> In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:
>
> And a ?normal? search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:
>
> Regards,
>
> Johan Marais
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> On Behalf Of David
> Haslam
> Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45
> To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
>
>
>
> I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.
>
>
>
> There were no results found!
>
>
>
> This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other
> Psalms.
>
>
>
> "To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."
>
>
>
> In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the
> original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?
>
>
>
> Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?
>
>
>
> cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in
> footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.
>
>
>
> Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the
> module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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From dmsmith at crosswire.org  Tue Jan 28 15:32:45 2025
From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 15:32:45 -0500
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
In-Reply-To: <CA+kNJPic9_e0yTn_wG3c1XbarbEBkwN-izja+TFY=iaLMcy7WQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>
 <AM9PR09MB4915D4F76CB4CF79C8F4F8B0C0EF2@AM9PR09MB4915.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <gW8yJNMivn2tvJrPfORg7LmQS12Y02TgbcDDp32YFU_f-o0C1N0fR3Mr_z8qpFzn2p16qKLKNpPcLBo7lXHQIoHDrNNKleQfarHhcqgGnt0=@protonmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPic9_e0yTn_wG3c1XbarbEBkwN-izja+TFY=iaLMcy7WQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A2CAF627-6D63-4480-91F0-F9629561DADA@crosswire.org>



> On Jan 28, 2025, at 1:48?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> The usage of "acrostic" in this case is indeed semantically incorrect. 
> 
> According to the OSIS specification, the correct markup for a psalm canonical title is 
> <title type="psalm" canonical="true">
> and it is perfectly allowed to occur before the first verse.
> The crosswire wiki mentions that, in this case, sword requires an additional attribute subType="x-preverse" on the title tag, though I'm not sure what the purpose of this tag is and if it affects your issue with searching.
> 

subType=?x-preverse? is added by osis2mod. No one writing OSIS should need to put that in. SWORD uses this to handle material that stands before the verse number.

Early on pre-verse material was a heading. Later it could be more complex.

In a SWORD frontend it does something like this pseudo code.
if (showingHeadings or verse.headingIsCanonical())
	output( verse.getHeading() )
output( verse.getVerseNumber() )
output( verse.getContent() )

Note, the above does not care if the module is OSIS, ThML, GBF, plain text, ? 
> As a side note, in many bibles, as you say, some psalm titles span several verses, and therefore the OSIS spec allows <verse/> tags in the middle of a psalm title - though currently sword does not support it because osis2mod does not transform the <title> tag to milestoned form.
> 
Right. It doesn?t fit the pattern above. 

What module exhibits this multi-verse title and in which Psalm? I?d like to take a look at it.
> Regards,
> 
> Arnaud
> 
> 
> Le mar. 28 janv. 2025, 13:12, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com <mailto:dfhdfh at protonmail.com>> a ?crit :
>> Thanks John,
>> 
>> Aside: I'm puzzled by the use of type="acrostic" when the 125 Psalms with canonical titles are nothing to do with acrostics, per se. Surely, that attribute should be reserved for the 22 stanza headings in Psalm 119 ?
>> 
>> There are Alternative Versifications in which the canonical Psalm titles are assigned to verse 1 (or in a few cases to verses 1 & 2) with subsequent verse numbers being offset by +1 (or +2).
>> I was not enquiring about modules that are for Bible versions like that.
>> 
>> In the KJV and many other modules, the Psalm titles proper are before the start of verse 1.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>> 
>> On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 11:17 AM, Johan Marais <johan.marais at messianic.co.za <mailto:johan.marais at messianic.co.za>> wrote:
>>> David.
>>> 
>>> In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:
>>> 
>>> <image003.png>
>>> 
>>> And a ?normal? search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:
>>> 
>>> <image002.png>
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Johan Marais
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org>> On Behalf Of David Haslam
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45
>>> To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>>
>>> Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> There were no results found!
>>> 
>>>  
>>> This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other Psalms.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> "To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."
>>> 
>>>  
>>> In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the  module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> David
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> 
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> <image002.png><image003.png>_______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Tue Jan 28 15:47:20 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 20:47:20 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
In-Reply-To: <A2CAF627-6D63-4480-91F0-F9629561DADA@crosswire.org>
References: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>
 <AM9PR09MB4915D4F76CB4CF79C8F4F8B0C0EF2@AM9PR09MB4915.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <gW8yJNMivn2tvJrPfORg7LmQS12Y02TgbcDDp32YFU_f-o0C1N0fR3Mr_z8qpFzn2p16qKLKNpPcLBo7lXHQIoHDrNNKleQfarHhcqgGnt0=@protonmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPic9_e0yTn_wG3c1XbarbEBkwN-izja+TFY=iaLMcy7WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <A2CAF627-6D63-4480-91F0-F9629561DADA@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <vpYsa7Mh3bgw5TaWoYPxV36Waz2r_RbtQQN0JpBuhFqK3fkRO-48b1ybf1j9NV_Y-dzbG8rKyl2LTRxTGpMRa8XiuU1NMtQaTlhKzUb6Kxk=@protonmail.com>

Thanks DM,

French Bibles with one of the applicable versifications.

e.g. Psalm 54 in FreJND has vss 1-2 for the title.

AFAICT, no Bible version allocates more than 2 verses to a Psalm title.

Best regards,

David

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home) secure email.

On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 8:32 PM, DM Smith <dmsmith at crosswire.org> wrote:

>> On Jan 28, 2025, at 1:48?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> The usage of "acrostic" in this case is indeed semantically incorrect.
>>
>> According to the OSIS specification, the correct markup for a psalm canonical title is
>> <title type="psalm" canonical="true">
>> and it is perfectly allowed to occur before the first verse.
>> The crosswire wiki mentions that, in this case, sword requires an additional attribute subType="x-preverse" on the title tag, though I'm not sure what the purpose of this tag is and if it affects your issue with searching.
>
> subType=?x-preverse? is added by osis2mod. No one writing OSIS should need to put that in. SWORD uses this to handle material that stands before the verse number.
>
> Early on pre-verse material was a heading. Later it could be more complex.
>
> In a SWORD frontend it does something like this pseudo code.
> if (showingHeadings or verse.headingIsCanonical())
> output( verse.getHeading() )
> output( verse.getVerseNumber() )
> output( verse.getContent() )
>
> Note, the above does not care if the module is OSIS, ThML, GBF, plain text, ?
>
>> As a side note, in many bibles, as you say, some psalm titles span several verses, and therefore the OSIS spec allows <verse/> tags in the middle of a psalm title - though currently sword does not support it because osis2mod does not transform the <title> tag to milestoned form.
>
> Right. It doesn?t fit the pattern above.
>
> What module exhibits this multi-verse title and in which Psalm? I?d like to take a look at it.
>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Arnaud
>>
>> Le mar. 28 janv. 2025, 13:12, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> a ?crit :
>>
>>> Thanks John,
>>>
>>> Aside: I'm puzzled by the use oftype="acrostic"when the 125 Psalms with canonical titles are nothing to do with acrostics,per se. Surely, that attribute should be reserved for the 22 stanza headings in Psalm 119 ?
>>>
>>> There are Alternative Versifications in which the canonical Psalm titles are assigned to verse 1 (or in a few cases to verses 1 & 2) with subsequent verse numbers being offset by +1 (or +2).
>>> I was not enquiring about modules that are for Bible versions like that.
>>>
>>> In the KJV and many other modules, the Psalm titles proper arebeforethe start of verse 1.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent with[Proton Mail](https://proton.me/mail/home)secure email.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 11:17 AM, Johan Marais <johan.marais at messianic.co.za> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David.
>>>>
>>>> In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:
>>>>
>>>> <image003.png>
>>>>
>>>> And a ?normal? search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:
>>>>
>>>> <image002.png>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Johan Marais
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> On Behalf Of David Haslam
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45
>>>> To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>>>> Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
>>>>
>>>> I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.
>>>>
>>>> There were no results found!
>>>>
>>>> This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other Psalms.
>>>>
>>>> "To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."
>>>>
>>>> In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?
>>>>
>>>> Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?
>>>>
>>>> cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.orghttp://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>>>
>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>> <image002.png><image003.png>_______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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From unas.zole+avie at gmail.com  Wed Jan 29 03:01:01 2025
From: unas.zole+avie at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Arnaud_Vi=C3=A9?=)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2025 09:01:01 +0100
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
In-Reply-To: <A2CAF627-6D63-4480-91F0-F9629561DADA@crosswire.org>
References: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>
 <AM9PR09MB4915D4F76CB4CF79C8F4F8B0C0EF2@AM9PR09MB4915.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <gW8yJNMivn2tvJrPfORg7LmQS12Y02TgbcDDp32YFU_f-o0C1N0fR3Mr_z8qpFzn2p16qKLKNpPcLBo7lXHQIoHDrNNKleQfarHhcqgGnt0=@protonmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPic9_e0yTn_wG3c1XbarbEBkwN-izja+TFY=iaLMcy7WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <A2CAF627-6D63-4480-91F0-F9629561DADA@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <CA+kNJPg-HAp7ewbYQaMPXcPBUjYojcRGJi0twBM_5_zwmpNmvA@mail.gmail.com>

 Thanks DM for the answer !
The "OSIS pre-verse titles" wiki page mentioned that sword used x-preverse,
but it wasn't clear to me if it was a requirement to have in the input
document.
In doubt I added it when outputting OSIS from my bible-scraper, but now I
know I can remove it safely :-)

Regarding the verse delimiters in the middle of psalm titles, as David
mentioned it's the case in many french bibles, where psalm titles are all
over the place.
The examples I know come from bibles that Cyrille scraped with my tool, and
for which he had the issue.
In all of them, I worked around it by writing several <title> tags for a
single psalm (each title fully contained within a verse) in each case.

For verse 1 starting in the middle of the psalm title, see Psalm 28 in
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_sainte_Bible_selon_la_Vulgate_(J.-B._Glaire)/Psaumes#PSAUME_28._(H%C3%A9br.,_XXIX).[292]
, which I think Cyrille published as FreVulgGlaire. (I see it in AndBible,
but for some reason it does not show up on the crosswire.org website
library).
For psalm title spanning two verses, you can check verses 50, 51, 53, 59
and more of
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Traduction_de_la_Septante_et_du_Nouveau_Testament/Psaumes#PSAUME_L,
which he published as FreLXXGiguet on the crosswire repo.

I can provide full OSIS documents with these use cases and without my
workaround (so with the verse tags really written within a single title) -
feel free to mail me directly if needed.

Regards,

Arnaud

Le mar. 28 janv. 2025 ? 21:33, DM Smith <dmsmith at crosswire.org> a ?crit :

>
>
> On Jan 28, 2025, at 1:48?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> The usage of "acrostic" in this case is indeed semantically incorrect.
>
> According to the OSIS specification, the correct markup for a psalm
> canonical title is
> <title type="psalm" canonical="true">
> and it is perfectly allowed to occur before the first verse.
> The crosswire wiki mentions that, in this case, sword requires an
> additional attribute subType="x-preverse" on the title tag, though I'm not
> sure what the purpose of this tag is and if it affects your issue with
> searching.
>
>
> subType=?x-preverse? is added by osis2mod. No one writing OSIS should need
> to put that in. SWORD uses this to handle material that stands before the
> verse number.
>
> Early on pre-verse material was a heading. Later it could be more complex.
>
> In a SWORD frontend it does something like this pseudo code.
> if (showingHeadings or verse.headingIsCanonical())
> output( verse.getHeading() )
> output( verse.getVerseNumber() )
> output( verse.getContent() )
>
> Note, the above does not care if the module is OSIS, ThML, GBF, plain
> text, ?
>
> As a side note, in many bibles, as you say, some psalm titles span several
> verses, and therefore the OSIS spec allows <verse/> tags in the middle of a
> psalm title - though currently sword does not support it because osis2mod
> does not transform the <title> tag to milestoned form.
>
> Right. It doesn?t fit the pattern above.
>
> What module exhibits this multi-verse title and in which Psalm? I?d like
> to take a look at it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Arnaud
>
> Le mar. 28 janv. 2025, 13:12, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> a
> ?crit :
>
>> Thanks John,
>>
>> *Aside*: I'm puzzled by the use of *type="acrostic"* when the 125 Psalms
>> with canonical titles are nothing to do with acrostics, *per se*.
>> Surely, that attribute should be reserved for the 22 stanza headings in
>> Psalm 119 ?
>>
>> There are Alternative Versifications in which the canonical Psalm titles
>> are assigned to verse 1 (or in a few cases to verses 1 & 2) with subsequent
>> verse numbers being offset by +1 (or +2).
>> I was not enquiring about modules that are for Bible versions like that.
>>
>> In the KJV and many other modules, the Psalm titles proper are *before* the
>> start of verse 1.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 11:17 AM, Johan Marais <
>> johan.marais at messianic.co.za> wrote:
>>
>> David.
>>
>> In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:
>>
>> <image003.png>
>>
>> And a ?normal? search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:
>>
>> <image002.png>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Johan Marais
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> On Behalf Of David
>> Haslam
>> Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45
>> To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>> Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
>>
>>
>> I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.
>>
>>
>> There were no results found!
>>
>>
>> This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other
>> Psalms.
>>
>>
>> "To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."
>>
>>
>> In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the
>> original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?
>>
>>
>> Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?
>>
>>
>> cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in
>> footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.
>>
>>
>> Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout
>> the  module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
> <image002.png><image003.png>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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From johan.marais at messianic.co.za  Thu Jan 30 00:28:57 2025
From: johan.marais at messianic.co.za (Johan Marais)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 05:28:57 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?
In-Reply-To: <CA+kNJPg-HAp7ewbYQaMPXcPBUjYojcRGJi0twBM_5_zwmpNmvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1YB7G61ueAGwMUPT4zBYSWCXaCrMvxrK41RRHknj0lh0tJZhhx74rQLZAcvSJ6p1zpygHruuuEOdsP_VmEGjshxIri-ZYOwbWYpzDx3Qleg=@protonmail.com>
 <AM9PR09MB4915D4F76CB4CF79C8F4F8B0C0EF2@AM9PR09MB4915.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
 <gW8yJNMivn2tvJrPfORg7LmQS12Y02TgbcDDp32YFU_f-o0C1N0fR3Mr_z8qpFzn2p16qKLKNpPcLBo7lXHQIoHDrNNKleQfarHhcqgGnt0=@protonmail.com>
 <CA+kNJPic9_e0yTn_wG3c1XbarbEBkwN-izja+TFY=iaLMcy7WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <A2CAF627-6D63-4480-91F0-F9629561DADA@crosswire.org>
 <CA+kNJPg-HAp7ewbYQaMPXcPBUjYojcRGJi0twBM_5_zwmpNmvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB9PR09MB4922BD507A359359133C3E2AC0E92@DB9PR09MB4922.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks for the feedback.
What is the correct method to mark the introduction to the psalms then, but still searchable in inter alia Xiphos please?
Thank you,
Johan
From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> On Behalf Of Arnaud Vi?
Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2025 10:01
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?

Thanks DM for the answer !
The "OSIS pre-verse titles" wiki page mentioned that sword used x-preverse, but it wasn't clear to me if it was a requirement to have in the input document.
In doubt I added it when outputting OSIS from my bible-scraper, but now I know I can remove it safely :-)

Regarding the verse delimiters in the middle of psalm titles, as David mentioned it's the case in many french bibles, where psalm titles are all over the place.
The examples I know come from bibles that Cyrille scraped with my tool, and for which he had the issue.
In all of them, I worked around it by writing several <title> tags for a single psalm (each title fully contained within a verse) in each case.

For verse 1 starting in the middle of the psalm title, see Psalm 28 in https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_sainte_Bible_selon_la_Vulgate_(J.-B._Glaire)/Psaumes#PSAUME_28._(H%C3%A9br.,_XXIX).[292] , which I think Cyrille published as FreVulgGlaire. (I see it in AndBible, but for some reason it does not show up on the crosswire.org<http://crosswire.org> website library).
For psalm title spanning two verses, you can check verses 50, 51, 53, 59 and more of https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Traduction_de_la_Septante_et_du_Nouveau_Testament/Psaumes#PSAUME_L, which he published as FreLXXGiguet on the crosswire repo.

I can provide full OSIS documents with these use cases and without my workaround (so with the verse tags really written within a single title) - feel free to mail me directly if needed.

Regards,

Arnaud

Le mar. 28 janv. 2025 ? 21:33, DM Smith <dmsmith at crosswire.org<mailto:dmsmith at crosswire.org>> a ?crit :



On Jan 28, 2025, at 1:48?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com<mailto:unas.zole%2Bavie at gmail.com>> wrote:


Hi David,

The usage of "acrostic" in this case is indeed semantically incorrect.

According to the OSIS specification, the correct markup for a psalm canonical title is
<title type="psalm" canonical="true">
and it is perfectly allowed to occur before the first verse.
The crosswire wiki mentions that, in this case, sword requires an additional attribute subType="x-preverse" on the title tag, though I'm not sure what the purpose of this tag is and if it affects your issue with searching.

subType=?x-preverse? is added by osis2mod. No one writing OSIS should need to put that in. SWORD uses this to handle material that stands before the verse number.

Early on pre-verse material was a heading. Later it could be more complex.

In a SWORD frontend it does something like this pseudo code.
if (showingHeadings or verse.headingIsCanonical())
output( verse.getHeading() )
output( verse.getVerseNumber() )
output( verse.getContent() )

Note, the above does not care if the module is OSIS, ThML, GBF, plain text, ?


As a side note, in many bibles, as you say, some psalm titles span several verses, and therefore the OSIS spec allows <verse/> tags in the middle of a psalm title - though currently sword does not support it because osis2mod does not transform the <title> tag to milestoned form.
Right. It doesn?t fit the pattern above.

What module exhibits this multi-verse title and in which Psalm? I?d like to take a look at it.


Regards,

Arnaud

Le mar. 28 janv. 2025, 13:12, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com<mailto:dfhdfh at protonmail.com>> a ?crit :
Thanks John,

Aside: I'm puzzled by the use of type="acrostic" when the 125 Psalms with canonical titles are nothing to do with acrostics, per se. Surely, that attribute should be reserved for the 22 stanza headings in Psalm 119 ?

There are Alternative Versifications in which the canonical Psalm titles are assigned to verse 1 (or in a few cases to verses 1 & 2) with subsequent verse numbers being offset by +1 (or +2).
I was not enquiring about modules that are for Bible versions like that.

In the KJV and many other modules, the Psalm titles proper are before the start of verse 1.

Best regards,

David

Sent with Proton Mail<https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.

On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 11:17 AM, Johan Marais <johan.marais at messianic.co.za<mailto:johan.marais at messianic.co.za>> wrote:


David.

In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:

<image003.png>

And a ?normal? search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:

<image002.png>

Regards,

Johan Marais

________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org<mailto:sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org>> On Behalf Of David Haslam
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45
To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org<mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>>
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?


I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.


There were no results found!


This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other Psalms.


"To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."


In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?


Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?


cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.


Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the  module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.


Best regards,


David


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From dmsmith at crosswire.org  Thu Jan 30 10:42:31 2025
From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 10:42:31 -0500
Subject: [sword-devel] Module release: LXX
In-Reply-To: <6BA0B87E-3AA0-4DB0-9D59-F40E8BD53D55@crosswire.org>
References: <20220830134352.C78D0120BB0@mail.crosswire.org>
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 <CACQaL-+AGZ+X1VeHEJB8Xf9F5nR21ZvtYAh1EghCGVvax+XAKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a829a52a-686d-4c6f-9cd8-2ab9ca6a1d54@tiberiade.be>
 <CA+kNJPhgy26hZqwd56KyqDaSV00FWhvZi_fQYgSq2nrUTrP0xw@mail.gmail.com>
 <74c931a6-ca87-4be2-a797-3a21ea427773@tiberiade.be>
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 <CA+kNJPhp2ezsq6ftn0PODT_PTokq0G0DaaHsUPFNJAGcK1xL7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57FADB24-BB48-4F16-8A7E-C48EB5E48701@crosswire.org>
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Message-ID: <8E56AD09-9900-4F89-81C0-482BD87F34A2@crosswire.org>

Troy,

Wonderful.

In the file?s mapping section, does ?to? refer to LXXNU or to the v11n being defined?

I suppose that osis2mod will need to be changed to accept the file, that the conf will need to implictly or explicitly point to the file, that it?ll need to be packaged with the module and the loading of the module will need to use it? Is this yet to be done?

DM

> On Jan 28, 2025, at 6:28?AM, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:
> 
> From this comment, I believe the mappings use 1 based book numbers starting with Genesis and continuing up into the New Testament. I think this comment was from ????? in the original code.
> 
> https://git.crosswire.org/main/crosswire-java/-/blob/master/src/org/crosswire/sword/mgr/VersificationMgr.java#L178
> 
> Since this input format is for humans to easily read, I think you well point to a confusing aspect of the data file. I'll keep it in my mind to change the book attribute to use OSISID book identifiers instead of these numbers. I can fill the underlining data structures with the numbers for quick conversion by looking them up during the loading of the data file. Thanks for the comment.
> 
> Troy
> 
> 
> On January 27, 2025 10:06:27 PM GMT+01:00, DM Smith <dmsmith at crosswire.org <mailto:dmsmith at crosswire.org>> wrote:
>> Troy,
>> In your XML file in the mapping section you have book=?25?. To which book does this refer? In the OT and the NT there are books with bookNum=?25?.
>> DM
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2025, at 11:00?AM, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey guys.  I recently had to port the mapping work done in VersificationMgr for use in the VMRCRE and had to fully understand the scheme and syntax used in the good work done by ????? on this a few years back.
>>> 
>>> It was a bit difficult for me to keep each component straight in my mind initially so during my port, I created a class with clear property names to hold each value, and an import format which makes it clear what values do what.  Here are the lines of code for reference:
>>> 
>>> This is the VMRCRE equivelant to a canon.h file (MTNU: the Masoretic OT + Nestle/Aland NT) and has mappings between the MTNU and the LXXNU (LXX = G?ttingen/Rahlfs) versifications under the <mappings> section near the end:
>>> 
>>> https://crosswire.org/svn/community/trunk/contrib/v11ns/MTNU.xml
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Port of VersificationMgr with class to hold the mappings section:
>>> 
>>> https://git.crosswire.org/main/crosswire-java/-/blob/master/src/org/crosswire/sword/mgr/VersificationMgr.java#L233
>>> 
>>> Hope this is helpful,
>>> 
>>> Troy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/24/25 3:11 PM, DM Smith wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 23, 2025, at 6:40?PM, Arnaud Vi? <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> <mailto:unas.zole+avie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Le jeu. 23 janv. 2025 ? 22:18, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be <mailto:fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be>> a ?crit :
>>>>>>> So I think that for versifications, catholic catholic2 and LXX there is no mapping (which would explain some of the problems I've had displaying in parallel?).
>>>>>>> In the other v11n files I see an entry by instance in vulg:
>>>>>>> unsigned char mappings_vulg[] = {
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If someone can explain or give me a documentation to understand how it works, and if this is where the mapping takes place, I'd like to work on it. Especially as it should be possible to use Arnaud's work?
>>>>> 
>>>>> You're correct Cyrille, the mapping data is in this char array defined with the versifications in the canon_*.h files.
>>>>> This array is injected (for the versifications which have one) and decoded within versificationmgr.cpp.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The format of this char array is really obscure though, and it's completely different from the format of mappings used in jsword (which is a lot clearer and a lot easier to edit and maintain).
>>>>> From what I understand in the code ("// parse mappings" section of the loadFromSBook method in versificationmgr.cpp) and the canon_vulg.h example :
>>>> 
>>>> SWORD is built for speed. The format is a C string (characters followed by a null). SWORD?s format is meant to be obscure to force the use of SWORD and JSword as the mechanism to read SWORD modules.
>>>> 
>>>> JSword is meant to be in lock step with the formats of SWORD. WRT the mapping files, these were developed independently and at the same time. I deemed it too hard at the time to bring JSword back into alignment w SWORD?s format. JSword?s format is human readable, external, easily maintainable and is read when needed.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1.
>>>>> The array starts with a sequence of book names, which are the books present in this bible and absent from KJV.
>>>>> Each such name is a sequence of letters followed by a null character serving as delimiter.
>>>>> In canon_vulg, thoses are the 
>>>>> 'E', 'p', 'J', 'e', 'r', 0,
>>>>> 'P', 'r', 'A', 'z', 'a', 'r', 0,
>>>>> 'S', 'u', 's', 0,
>>>>> 'B', 'e', 'l', 0,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2. Then, you have an additional null character indicating the end of that first section - the rest of the array is encoded completely differently.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 3. The rest of the array is meant to be split in sequences of 7 numbers, each such 7-number sequence corresponding to a mapping rule.
>>>>> For example, this is a mapping rule :
>>>>> 21,  4,   9,   10,  4,   8,   0,
>>>>> 
>>>>> First digit indicates the book (index in the sequence of books, starting at 1). In vulg, book 21 is Psalms.
>>>>> The next 3 digits indicate the destination of the mapping. "4,9,10" corresponds to chapter 4, verses 9 to 10.
>>>>> The final 3 digits are the source of the mapping. "4,8,0" corresponds to chapter 4, verse 8 alone.
>>>>> So this rule I used as example denotes that verses Ps 4:9-10 of KJV are mapped to Ps 4:8 in Vulg.
>>>>> Which corresponds indeed to one rule that is present in the jsword mapping file.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess I could try to build a converter to export the jsword mapping properties files into this format, so that we could indeed add the Catholic and Catholic2 mappings that I spent hours building for the AndBible jsword fork.
>>>> 
>>>> That would be greatly appreciated!
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> But going forward, for maintaining versifications, it would be a lot better to have a central way of defining all our versifications and all their mappings in an easily readable and editable format (maybe the one defined by the Copenhagen Alliance, cf https://github.com/Copenhagen-Alliance/versification-specification/blob/master/versification-mappings/json-schema/versification_schema.json ), serving as a source of truth for both sword and jsword. Because even just looking at this Vulg versifications, the mapping have vastly diverged between sword and jsword...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> IIRC, the mapping of deuterocanonical material I don?t think was ever completed.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Even if we don't go as far as implementing the full modular versification system that I would like to build, if at the very least we could have a central, easy-to-maintain place to manage all our versifications, and then could easily export them to both sword and jsword, that would be a huge step forward.
>>>> 
>>>> I think Chris Little developed an external format that would build the canon_*.h files. I don?t remember if there was something like this that was developed for mappings.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arnaud
>>>>>  
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>>>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Thu Jan 30 11:16:16 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 16:16:16 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] osis2mod and Xinclude ?
Message-ID: <YIgDgZPiIQ4GVsv1CKQF5ly_YZDrdEaCN1gh0UlCQo6-AtL48112P9wHVWjP2t9wuRR-3kRga6Hgv3FhOTQ-Y3mfEGgFTY5qFT29-nGDTGQ=@protonmail.com>

What would it take to enable osis2mod to process a top level OSIS file that called subsidiary XML files using the Xinclude feature?

See https://www.w3.org/TR/xinclude/
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XInclude

Potential use:

Instead of having to script the merging of two OSIS files (e.g. for the KJV books and the KJVDC books to make a large XML file from which to make the KJVA module), the two OSIS files could be included by name in a small OSIS file. If osis2mod could run with that, it would be a simpler task to update the KJVA module whenever the KJV module is being updated.

It seems a shame if we could not take advantage of this standard feature of XML with the main tool we use for making Bible modules.

Best regards,

David

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

From greg.hellings at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 11:33:32 2025
From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 10:33:32 -0600
Subject: [sword-devel] osis2mod and Xinclude ?
In-Reply-To: <YIgDgZPiIQ4GVsv1CKQF5ly_YZDrdEaCN1gh0UlCQo6-AtL48112P9wHVWjP2t9wuRR-3kRga6Hgv3FhOTQ-Y3mfEGgFTY5qFT29-nGDTGQ=@protonmail.com>
References: <YIgDgZPiIQ4GVsv1CKQF5ly_YZDrdEaCN1gh0UlCQo6-AtL48112P9wHVWjP2t9wuRR-3kRga6Hgv3FhOTQ-Y3mfEGgFTY5qFT29-nGDTGQ=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHxvOVL4qxWRhj4cpZQf-nn=rJ9DCpOi=4aVZQYLKQjThYMDRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 10:17?AM David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:

> It seems a shame if we could not take advantage of this standard feature
> of XML with the main tool we use for making Bible modules.
>

This is because, in order to keep the library small, we use no standard XML
tools. Thus, no standard XML features except for those few deemed as
important enough.

--Greg
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From dmsmith at crosswire.org  Thu Jan 30 13:52:37 2025
From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 13:52:37 -0500
Subject: [sword-devel] osis2mod and Xinclude ?
In-Reply-To: <YIgDgZPiIQ4GVsv1CKQF5ly_YZDrdEaCN1gh0UlCQo6-AtL48112P9wHVWjP2t9wuRR-3kRga6Hgv3FhOTQ-Y3mfEGgFTY5qFT29-nGDTGQ=@protonmail.com>
References: <YIgDgZPiIQ4GVsv1CKQF5ly_YZDrdEaCN1gh0UlCQo6-AtL48112P9wHVWjP2t9wuRR-3kRga6Hgv3FhOTQ-Y3mfEGgFTY5qFT29-nGDTGQ=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <01FB0220-96CF-4458-BE38-B88BC3D47224@crosswire.org>

osis2mod already has a flag -a that will allow content to be appended to a module. I think if a copy of the KJV is made that the -a flag with the Apocrypha.xml (or whatever it is called) could be added in.

> On Jan 30, 2025, at 11:16?AM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
> 
> What would it take to enable osis2mod to process a top level OSIS file that called subsidiary XML files using the Xinclude feature?
> 
> See https://www.w3.org/TR/xinclude/
> and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XInclude
> 
> Potential use:
> 
> Instead of having to script the merging of two OSIS files (e.g. for the KJV books and the KJVDC books to make a large XML file from which to make the KJVA module), the two OSIS files could be included by name in a small OSIS file. If osis2mod could run with that, it would be a simpler task to update the KJVA module whenever the KJV module is being updated.
> 
> It seems a shame if we could not take advantage of this standard feature of XML with the main tool we use for making Bible modules.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> David
> 
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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From dfhdfh at protonmail.com  Thu Jan 30 14:17:17 2025
From: dfhdfh at protonmail.com (David Haslam)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 19:17:17 +0000
Subject: [sword-devel] osis2mod and Xinclude ?
In-Reply-To: <01FB0220-96CF-4458-BE38-B88BC3D47224@crosswire.org>
References: <YIgDgZPiIQ4GVsv1CKQF5ly_YZDrdEaCN1gh0UlCQo6-AtL48112P9wHVWjP2t9wuRR-3kRga6Hgv3FhOTQ-Y3mfEGgFTY5qFT29-nGDTGQ=@protonmail.com>
 <01FB0220-96CF-4458-BE38-B88BC3D47224@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <K3D7MzNm0rzCAhr-fzghmHZzF-soEibL4zfrd3JJ9RsI3YpT0v083ZddddQgGMAqMqmKdeijYRYhrIG7evP9aD7iYHRqxlSfLyU-EA2cAtU=@protonmail.com>

Thanks DM,

Indeed it has, and I?ve used it myself to create updated test versions of the KJVA module, by appending the DC books to a module created first from the PC books.

However that concept is not foreseen as a potential method to be used by Dom Corbex in his module creation script.

David

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 18:52, DM Smith <[dmsmith at crosswire.org](mailto:On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 18:52, DM Smith <<a href=)> wrote:

> osis2mod already has a flag -a that will allow content to be appended to a module. I think if a copy of the KJV is made that the -a flag with the Apocrypha.xml (or whatever it is called) could be added in.
>
>> On Jan 30, 2025, at 11:16?AM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What would it take to enable osis2mod to process a top level OSIS file that called subsidiary XML files using the Xinclude feature?
>>
>> See https://www.w3.org/TR/xinclude/
>> and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XInclude
>>
>> Potential use:
>>
>> Instead of having to script the merging of two OSIS files (e.g. for the KJV books and the KJVDC books to make a large XML file from which to make the KJVA module), the two OSIS files could be included by name in a small OSIS file. If osis2mod could run with that, it would be a simpler task to update the KJVA module whenever the KJV module is being updated.
>>
>> It seems a shame if we could not take advantage of this standard feature of XML with the main tool we use for making Bible modules.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
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